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I couldn't agree more.

Taleworld's secrecy over this project compared to how open they were with the original M&B is surprising, not to mention worrying.

Here's hoping they divert from the typical results of a scenario where an indie game takes a long time to complete combined with very little communication from the devs by delivering a game worthy of seven years of development.

kraggrim ?️ 说:

If he was fired it'd seem a bit weird they'd take his friend on as a replacement.

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Maybe he agreed it was time for him to leave and he recommended Callum.

Arvenski 说:

Lord Brutus 说:

And Yazzy was such an idiot that he got canned.

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Speaking of which, I wonder if Lust is choosing to leave TW, or if he's been canned, too.

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I think probably yes. TW are attempting to fix their community relations reputation by hiring a PR firm and bringing in Callum and since Frank has ended up with a bad reputation for community management (not entirely his fault - he can only talk about what he's told he can talk about) it seems he had to go.

Also, the way he ended his farewell post with "I wish all the luck in the world to my former colleagues in meeting everyone’s expectations with Bannerlord!" has subtly bitter overtones, clearly implying that they'll need all the luck in world if they want to please their audience based on what he's seen.

He just had to get that little dig in before he left. 

EmielRegis 说:

They can  work on bannerlord till heat death of universe if you ask me.

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I don't think they need encouraging.

EmielRegis 说:

Kehlian 说:

It's more that this is getting old, this video has been used too much :/

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You mean it's a paraphrase of bannerlord beeing in development so long it became old even before release? Dude, that's deep.

Kaiji 说:

Nah, just having a laugh. Loosen up. It's a computer game, not a political struggle.

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It accuses dev team of sitting on ass and doing nothing. There is laugh and then there is beeing  an a sshole.

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It doesn't make any accusations. It's a joke video meant to provide some harmless comic relief.

Amazing how uptight the wait has made this community.

EmielRegis 说:

Kaiji 说:

New Taleworlds CEO interview 

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As much as I despite tw news policy  this is ****ting over them just for sake of ****ting cuz "me not have still muh bonnurlurd".  :/

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Nah, just having a laugh. Loosen up. It's a computer game, not a political struggle.

New Taleworlds CEO interview 

Nymeris 说:

Kaiji 说:

VictorF 说:

6 years in the making and no idea of when it's going to come out doesn't sound like an organized and professional development model.

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It sounds like a poorly organized group of amateurs. These guys are clearly lost and confused without Paradox holding them to deadlines.

All that talk about being determined to "get the game in our hands as soon as possible" at the E3 before this one was just flat out patronizing lies, akin to patting a dog on the head.

We all know the game is in a playable state. You've said yourselves it's basically complete and just needing final polish. Put the damn thing in Early Access so the modders can start fixing it like they do with everything else you guys release.

Easily the most ignorant, casually oblivious gaming company I've ever experienced in several decades of gaming.

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This ignorant, casually oblvious gaming company made a medieval RPG so good that other companies started copying it.
You're just another overly dramatic 12yo who's mad because a presentation didnt meet his expectations. They will release a great game once its finished They clearly learned from Viking Conquest and now you're punishing them for it? Get the **** out of here, go to the Steam Forum cancer to put your stupid nonsense complaints.
Keep working Taleworlds, the grown ups are proud of you

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Yes, I'm a 12 year old who's been gaming for several decades. It seems you were so excited about trashing my opinion by resorting to embarrassingly unoriginal schoolyard insults that you forgot how to understand English.

And I'm not disappointed by the "presentation". It's precisely what I expected from Taleworlds: Very little.

They need to stop lying through their teeth about being determined to get the game in our hands and just release the damn thing. It's playable, so let us play it. Let the modders get started on reworking Taleworld's bad design decisions instead of waiting several more months to get this essential process started.

VictorF 说:

6 years in the making and no idea of when it's going to come out doesn't sound like an organized and professional development model.

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It sounds like a poorly organized group of amateurs. These guys are clearly lost and confused without Paradox holding them to deadlines.

All that talk about being determined to "get the game in our hands as soon as possible" at the E3 before this one was just flat out patronizing lies, akin to patting a dog on the head.

We all know the game is in a playable state. You've said yourselves it's basically complete and just needing final polish. Put the damn thing in Early Access so the modders can start fixing it like they do with everything else you guys release.

Easily the most ignorant, casually oblivious gaming company I've ever experienced in several decades of gaming.

aekilju 说:

Kaiji 说:

aekilju 说:

Kaiji 说:

I think a bigger, more professional studio could take the core design and make it far more polished, immersive and satisfying to play than Taleworlds are capable of.

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隐藏

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You disagree? Fair enough.

I personally find it very hard to get immersed in Warband because it has just a crappy overall feel.

If you sincerely don't believe any other game studio on the planet could make a better game with the same core design as Warband, I personally think that's extremely narrowminded and blinkered, but of course you're entitled to your opinion.

Taleworlds are good at game design, but well below average at game development as far as I'm concerned.

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No, I just don't think Warband is as bad as you seem to and I have a distrust of AAA companies that only ever disappoint.

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Not every company that's more competent and capable than Taleworlds is a AAA company.

Again, if you don't think any other company on Earth has the potential to make a more immersive, more highly polished version of the M&B template, I don't think you've really thought your opinion through.

I'm not saying Warband is "bad", but it has a very crappy, "ultra-indie" feel to it that I think deserves better treatment than I believe Taleworlds are capable of delivering.

Hopefully they'll prove me wrong. I guess we'll find out when they finally manage to get around to finishing Bannerlord sometime in the next year or so.

aekilju 说:

Kaiji 说:

I think a bigger, more professional studio could take the core design and make it far more polished, immersive and satisfying to play than Taleworlds are capable of.

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隐藏

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You disagree? Fair enough.

I personally find it very hard to get immersed in Warband because it has just a crappy overall feel.

If you sincerely don't believe any other game studio on the planet could make a better game with the same core design as Warband, I personally think that's extremely narrowminded and blinkered, but of course you're entitled to your opinion.

Taleworlds are good at game design, but well below average at game development as far as I'm concerned.

kuwhar 说:

Where do you get the 7 year figure?

They announced it in sept 2012. Not even 5 year mark yet.

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Right, they announced that they were working on it in 2012. They started development when Warband released in 2010. Developers tend not to announce games the day they start working on them.

kuwhar 说:

P.S. If a "bigger and more competent" studio took it over, they would probably kill everything we love about it.

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I disagree. I think a bigger, more professional studio could take the core design and make it far more polished, immersive and satisfying to play than Taleworlds are capable of.

Obviously no-one sees worthwhile profit potential in gambling on this niche, but let's not pretend Warband isn't an ugly, unpolished, clunky game. The main thing it has going for it is it's core design, simply because no-one has made anything similar.

AmateurHetman 说:

Kaiji 说:

Cpt. Nemo 说:

They spent several years working on a new engine, and even remade it during development of the actual game. And yes, 5 years is situation normal for development time.

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Nope.

Games typically take between one to three years to develop. Five years is most definitely not the norm.

Bannerlord is obviously larger in scale than the typical game but it's nowhere near the development scale of a game like Skyrim, which was full of individual scripted quests and seamless world design. Skyrim took a corporate-backed team three years to develop, so it's not unreasonable to expect a decent sized indie team like Taleworlds to take a lot less than seven years to develop a game like Bannerlord.

Obviously Taleworlds have had development problems, and these things happen. The only problems I have are their unappreciative, disrespectful approach to community relations, and their unflinching fanboy army who would probably still be here shouting down anyone who's frustrated even if the game was delayed into 2020.

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1-3 years are for games with high budgets, some of the best talent, pre-existing engines and usually with many pre-existing resources etc.
Bannerlord is made by a developing company that is still learning, they've made their own engine from scratch and basically had to implement all their unique mechanics/resources into it. You can't really compare.
It's a far more complex game then say call of duty.

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I already said Bannerlord is larger in scale than the typical game and acknowledged that it's an indie team, but you're right. Taleworlds are clearly still green when it comes to game development given the clunkiness and lack of polish in everything they release.

This is why, even after seven years of development, I expect Bannerlord to be better looking than Warband but still clunky and unpolished. Another game that has a crappy feel to it but you play it because there's nothing else out there with a similar overall design.

It really makes me wish a bigger, more competent studio would take the M&B design and do a more professional take on it.

Cpt. Nemo 说:

They spent several years working on a new engine, and even remade it during development of the actual game. And yes, 5 years is situation normal for development time.

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Nope.

Games typically take between one to three years to develop. Five years is most definitely not the norm.

Bannerlord is obviously larger in scale than the typical game but it's nowhere near the development scale of a game like Skyrim, which was full of individual scripted quests and seamless world design. Skyrim took a corporate-backed team three years to develop, so it's not unreasonable to expect a decent sized indie team like Taleworlds to take a lot less than seven years to develop a game like Bannerlord.

Obviously Taleworlds have had development problems, and these things happen. The only problems I have are their unappreciative, disrespectful approach to community relations, and their unflinching fanboy army who would probably still be here shouting down anyone who's frustrated even if the game was delayed into 2020.

Yabloko 说:

Seven years? They released the announcement on 2012, they still are within a normal span of time.

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They announced that they were working on the game in 2012. Actual development began when Warband released in 2010.

And even if if was five years (which it wasn't), it wouldn't be a "normal" span of time to develop a game, especially a sequel.

Yabloko 说:

Are you seriously offended by a **** joke?I think you're all reading too much into this... TW is taking the same time to develop and releasing as much info as any other company.

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Nope. Not offended in the slightest.

Do I think it was inappropriate, disrespectful and unprofessional? Yes. Very much so.

Taking the same time to develop as any other company? Over seven years? You can't really be serious.

Yabloko 说:

You think for example Bethesda is releasing news about their game everyday since the beginning? No, they say absolutely nothing for at least five years and then drum up hype in the last months. TW had the courtesy to tell us when they began working on Bannerlord and it has been a blunder, but an honest blunder nonetheless.

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It's been a blunder they've done almost nothing to rectify. They haven't even had the basic courtesy to say "As we go into the last stages of development, you'll hear very little from us".

Their communication is just pure trash. No nicer way to put it.

CaptainLee 说:

Icey 说:

Well, i still think it's pretty disappointing and embarrasing that they told about a "some form of release by the end of the year" and still no news about that

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They did in a way on Askfm. Someone asked Frank Elliot and he replied-

Hey there! Unfortunately we were unable to deliver on that guestimate (that's all it was, we didn't have a set deadline). We are still working on features and felt that it wouldn't give a fair representation of the game to players so we decided against it. Sorry for getting up any hopes!


I'm kidding, he didn't say that he said-

Question: What happened to "We are trying our best to get it into players' hands by the end of 2016"?

FE: You have one guess.

A lot of his answers tending to be quite salty and terse. I wish I could be like that in my job. Kinda amusing considering the only questions of relevance he said he couldn't talk about anyway.

Taleworlds!

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Reminds me of the time someone begged him to show us something... anything, and he replied "OK... *pulls down zipper*".

Yeah, people who are desperate for info about a long overdue sequel to a game they've put hundreds of hours into really need the community manager to sarcastically joke about getting his **** out in front of them.

TW are on the same level as the stereotypical internet tough guy who issues physical threats because he's hidden behind a computer screen and he knows there'll be zero real world consequences. Basic decency isn't a relevant factor to such people.

"Our community has supported us for a decade. Our company couldn't exist without them. We should show them mutual respect by keeping them clearly and frequently updated with the game's development simply because it's the decent thing to do." is clearly not a thought that has ever crossed their minds.

Luckily they have an army of sycophantic fanboys always at the ready to gleefully insult and demean anyone who dares suggest that TW are unprofessional, incompetent at customer relations and disrespectful to their community.

DanAngleland 说:

Kaiji 说:

Because their job is to write an enjoyable article that appeals to fans of the game. If after every feature they mentioned they said "but bear in mind while this feature sounds great on paper, the actual implementation is clunky as hell", TW would probably never consider giving PCGamer an exclusive preview of anything ever again.

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The magazine is a popular one and therefore a powerful platform for developers to draw attention to their game- the point being, they are never going to be short of people inviting PC Gamer to preview/review their games, so PC Gamer don't have to pander to them. And of course if the developer thought their game was so full of holes, they probably would avoid giving it any press exposure and just hope to get enough sales before people find out the truth. Besides, I have bought a number of issues over the years and have seen quite a few examples of them saying in previews and reviews that such and such a game has problems. They don't only mention the positives in every case, if something is lacking or they have concerns I have seen them expressed, even for games that they have devoted multiple page previews to.

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Fair point. Interesting that you failed to address everything else I said, though.

DanAngleland 说:

As for you not being Kagos, you have been making nothing but negative posts about Bannerlord since registering an account- just like Kagos. Also, Kagos has barely posted since that time, probably because you chose to ultimately phase him out with this new, slightly different take on posting unlikely theories about the game (such as the one where you think they are deliberately being 'unprofessional' in their treatment of the community). What's more, when I previously quoted you as Kaiji, saying  ' hello Kagos, nice dupe account', you replied as Kagos, giving no hint at all of denial that the two accounts were one and the same  Though that could just be because he didn't interpret my comment as a literal one, and rather thought I was comparing the two of you. If that was the case though, he clearly understood the comparison, which should tell you something. If you aren't the same person, you are both very much in the same vein; relentlessly exaggerating any flaws (real or imagined) of Taleworlds to express your bitterness about the game not being out yet.

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All I can do is assure you I am not, and have never heard of Kagos. If you don't believe me, I'm sure the world will continue revolving around the sun somehow.

Also, I don't see criticism as a negative act. I see it as a very positive one. The amount of potentially great games I've seen release as hot piles of steaming trash because the developers leaned on their white knighting fanboy armies throughout development and ignored all criticism is painful to think about.

Who knows? Bannerlord could release with a wide array of poorly implemented features and designs that the majority don't enjoy and that worsen the overall gameplay. If this ends up being the case, TW could have avoided this by being more open about development and ensuring they're making the game the majority of their playerbase actually wants to play.

Instead they've chosen to almost completely blank out their community while depending on starry-eyed bootlicking fanboys to shout down and belittle anyone who has concerns.

I'm just hoping it doesn't turn out to be the umpteenth scenario where all the fanboys pretend the game is amazing after release when it's actually riddled with problems and then slowly shut up and stop posting a couple weeks later when the honeymoon period is over and everyone's left with a dud of a game.

All hypothetical, of course. Bannerlord could turn out to be an excellent game, and I hope that's the case. I've just seen way too many "silent developer/overlong development" scenarios to be confident that this one game will be an outlier.

Pilum 说:

Kaiji 说:

DanAngleland 说:

Salmonsy 说:

We also know from the recent article that Bannerlord won't be the most polished game at release, which is worrying given the usual PR-speak that's so prevalent in the gaming industry and is also frequently used by Taleworlds itself - at least when they decide to actually say something, which is a rare event in itself. Given the fact that the end of 2016 was the release date they aimed for at last year's E3, one has to ponder where all this additional time went and why it was deemed necessary in the first place.

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PC Gamer said "Bannerlord probably won't be the most polished game released this year..." but they don't qualify that by saying 'based on what we've recently seen' or anything like that. I'm sure they just said that based on public knowledge of the past games, which have all been a bit shoddy in some ways. It's like saying "The latest iteration of FIFA won't be radically different from last year's version...".

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They said it during an article covering their personal hands-on time with Bannerlord. They were extremely obviously referring to the game as they saw it.

If you want to believe they wrote a whole article about their experiences with the actual game but decided to include a paragraph where they completely put their experiences with the actual game out of their heads and referred to the state of the game based on the state of Taleworlds' past games........ ummm......... go ahead, I guess. :\????

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It seems they didn't get to play The Bannerlord themselves. They watched CaptainLust play for an hour.

TaleWorlds doesn’t disappoint, and I get to watch as community manager Frank Elliott plays through an hour of a new campaign

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(from the PC Gamer Article 2017).

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If they watched him play for an hour then that was their personal experience of the game. They didn't need to be controlling it to see it's level of polish.

DanAngleland 说:

Why didn't they say it looks unpolished now if they thought that was the case?

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Why would they need to? It's already obvious they were talking about the game as they saw it. Well, obvious except to people who twist things in order to get more endorphins flying around their head than they'd have if they just faced reality.

DanAngleland 说:

They said it "probably won't be the most polished game"- do they have a time machine??!?!

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Nope. The game was clearly not in a state that could realistically be polished up before the end of the year.

DanAngleland 说:

...what we've seen and heard of the game so far wouldn't be enough to suggest to me that it will be unpolished at release- however, knowing the first two games is enough to suggest that.

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What we've seen has been very limited and what we've heard has zero bearing on the game's level of polish since hearing about features tells us zilch about how polished they are or will be.

DanAngleland 说:

If you want to believe that PC Gamer consider Bannerlord to be particularly unpolished, why was this one mention of it 'probably' going to be unpolished made at the end of an article? Why no other mention of anything unpolished, if they think it relevant?

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Because their job is to write an enjoyable article that appeals to fans of the game. If after every feature they mentioned they said "but bear in mind while this feature sounds great on paper, the actual implementation is clunky as hell", TW would probably never consider giving PCGamer an exclusive preview of anything ever again.

DanAngleland 说:

They aren't expecting this to change- hence their prediction at the end of the article.

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The franchises legacy is certainly one reason why they expect the game to be unpolished. Another is because they spent an hour watching someone play it. If you prefer to completely blank out the fact that they spent an hour watching someone play it and were able to visually see the game's level of polish with their own eyes, you are absolutely entitled to do so for whatever emotionally-based reason you need to.

DanAngleland 说:

Not that you truly care Kagos/Kaiji, because you don't believe the game exists do you. Though for some reason your posts convey an impression of someone who cares immensely....

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No idea who or what Kagos is and no idea where you got the impression I don't believe the game exists. Of course it exists.

And yes, I care immensely. Is there something wrong with that?

DanAngleland 说:

Salmonsy 说:

We also know from the recent article that Bannerlord won't be the most polished game at release, which is worrying given the usual PR-speak that's so prevalent in the gaming industry and is also frequently used by Taleworlds itself - at least when they decide to actually say something, which is a rare event in itself. Given the fact that the end of 2016 was the release date they aimed for at last year's E3, one has to ponder where all this additional time went and why it was deemed necessary in the first place.

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PC Gamer said "Bannerlord probably won't be the most polished game released this year..." but they don't qualify that by saying 'based on what we've recently seen' or anything like that. I'm sure they just said that based on public knowledge of the past games, which have all been a bit shoddy in some ways. It's like saying "The latest iteration of FIFA won't be radically different from last year's version...".

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They said it during an article covering their personal hands-on time with Bannerlord. They were extremely obviously referring to the game as they saw it.

If you want to believe they wrote a whole article about their experiences with the actual game but decided to include a paragraph where they completely put their experiences with the actual game out of their heads and referred to the state of the game based on the state of Taleworlds' past games........ ummm......... go ahead, I guess. :\????