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KhergitLancer99 说:

Bustah 说:

KhergitLancer99 说:

One question: Why Mamluk cavalry is 170 points when Vlandian Knight is 190 ?

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Because Vlandian knights are better than Mamluk cavalry

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If thats indeed the case as you put it like, just as how in warband swadian knights were super soldiers let alone being better than mamluks, then I am going to lose it.

I am not going to give examples of 5th and 7th crusades as people repeatedly underline there were other effects(which war doesnt have anway)

But even the philosophies between these warriors I think give us the hint who must be more powerful.

Knights training varied hugely with the wealth, interests, and reputation of the person in question. Quite a few knights as time passed neglected their martial training in favour of managing estates or various rents. Knights as a caste developed basically from anyone with a horse and the wealth to afford to risk it in battle.

I think some of the western knights were generally quite well trained indeed in the ways of their caste. From the age of 7 to 21. But that training tended towards one on one combat.

Mamluks well they are a whole different story. They were children born to warlike tribes of central asia(later some from caucasus) so they were already in the path even before the enslavement, they would already know how to ride a horse or shoot a bow.

Of course mamluks in pre and post baibars eras were completely different things. Same as the macedonian army pre and post Philip II but M&B tends to take a soldier reference from its golden era.

Slave soldiers who werent allowed to have outside of citadel lifes, making archery and javelin contests for their "free time", out of politics focused only on combat, doctrines being read from ancient times, an excellent track record to show us all of these fancy training werent for nothing.

I mean for me if Mamluks ever had any competition in their age at that point it was probably only Mongols and just some of the not corrupt knights. Maybe ones from crusader orders such as templar order I dont know.

Ofc I opened this topic simply because of this different points deal but it may have a simpler explanation like in medieval times in a Frank army knights were a few hundred per army whereas Mamluks were a few thousand per army.

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Yeah there are repeated examples of European knights trampling armies tenfold or even more their size. European knights are just better than Mamluks on a one to one basis. You hit the nail on the head as to the only reason Mamluks win - numbers.

KhergitLancer99 说:

One question: Why Mamluk cavalry is 170 points when Vlandian Knight is 190 ?

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Because Vlandian knights are better than Mamluk cavalry



even though this is over 4 years late and it's going to being in early access which is awful, I'm still excited

Rules 说:

No Spam
Spam clogs up the forum, makes relevant and accurate information harder to find and causes the forum to slow down for everybody. The definition of ‘spam’ includes, but is not limited to, the following actions:

• ...
• Multi-posting — if you need to add something, and yours was the last post in the thread, edit your last post instead of adding a new one
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why do they all look like their faces are made of clay

Nymeris 说:

That guy just got hit like 20 times and it seems quite reasonable that he does that "backflip", not sure what bothers you about it. I'm also depressed and I want to die

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Rainbow Dash 说:

隐藏

Bustah 说:

vicwiz007 说:

I would bring your attention to this gif:
Now it's not clear whether it was a bug or something else, but he definitely hit the guy's corpse evidenced by the "Delivered 29 damage." message and the fact that the body visibly changes trajectory.

https://gifs.com/gif/bannerlord-upgraded-physics-k5zqWr
maybe this link shows it better

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Can we talk about the ridiculous backflip off a horse this guy does after being killed? What the hell?

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Death animations are already beaten to death in this thread here.

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,375479.msg8947264.html#msg8947264

[insult removed]

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And please refrain from randomly throwing insults at people

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Beaten to death with like 2 people actually talking about how ridiculous they are and then 20 mongs coming in saying "FUN > REALISM"

Nymeris 说:

It's ok, don't let it happen again

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[insult removed]

Nymeris 说:

No, we are all cool with it and it seems plausible. Move along from my thread

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I forgot you speak for everyone in the community, sorry.

vicwiz007 说:

I would bring your attention to this gif:
Now it's not clear whether it was a bug or something else, but he definitely hit the guy's corpse evidenced by the "Delivered 29 damage." message and the fact that the body visibly changes trajectory.

https://gifs.com/gif/bannerlord-upgraded-physics-k5zqWr
maybe this link shows it better

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Can we talk about the ridiculous backflip off a horse this guy does after being killed? What the hell?

Rice lover 说:

Wasn't the only advantage of dual wielding that you can block and attack at the same time?

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Dude that's called fighting... do you think when you hold a shield you just throw it behind you so you can attack? You hold it in front, always. You are always blocking and always attacking.

Is it going to be deep or not. I mean it's cool that there's a couple new shops and that they have scenes made for them but what's going to be deep about running the business? Is it going to be like Warband where you buy it and then you never return and magically get a few hundred denars a week?

Can I set my prices? Can I limit how many I'm willing to sell? Can I tell my workers not to sell below a certain price? Can I hire more workers and buy more/upgrade equipment, expanding my business? Can I set up trade between multiple enterprises of mine? Can I buy lumber camps or farmsteads or mines or clay pits so that I can control my source of production as well as the means to produce my goods? Can I trade and initiate diplomacy with other enterprises directly? Does my business operation affect relations with the towns they are in? If I'm a lord, can I restrict or ban people from starting an enterprise of a certain type? Does the enterprise affect anything (if there are locals who own weaponry workshops and armouries will a rebellion/riot be more likely or more dangerous, or if my town is full of valuable workshops will it attract artisans from around Calradia and become the equivalent of Brussels or Venice of the Middle Ages, etc.)?

I could ask so many more questions but I'm sure the answer is no to all of them. Why? "Deep" doesn't mean a few more workshop types and the same system from Warband where a shortage of inputs or an excess of outputs affects profitability... that's just the same.

You could have looked to your own community (Nova Aetas for example) and seen the massive potential in the economic side of the game but I can already tell it's going to be the same as Warband where you buy a business and then leave it OR sit around for hours micromanaging to get the perfect profit because you just started. It's boring.

I get sidetracked v

Anyways good to see a campaign blog, I sincerely hope I'm very wrong about the complexity of the enterprise system.

SenorZorros 说:

A small issue with several ancient Slavic and Nordic symbols though is that there was this rather unruly bunch of fake germans who decided it was a good idea to commit genocide while using them in the past century...

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Because they disagree with you, they're not real Germans?

Mithril♡Souls 说:

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I would have chosen a more interesting beast myself for the Vlandian charge. An Alphyn, Tyger, a Theow...

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Dunno, a regular lion just seems rather bland and blasé. Also reminds me of a certain family who is really good at paying debts. Hmm.. Brilliant otherwise. 

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Yeah I would much rather have a wolf or some weird wolf goat hybrid whose name means "slave" as my heraldic symbol, and not a majestic lion.

Roccoflipside 说:

隐藏

Bustah 说:

Vlandia is literally the Lannisters.

I think three lions in a triangle or a column would have been better, it looks a bit too monolithic for early Europe.

I really like the Aserai, Battanian, and especially Khuzait. Khuzait reminds me of the Golden Horde.

Really not sure about the Sturgians... was hoping you would do something Russian with it considering they're based on the Rus... oh well.

Better than last week's blog but I'm going to start a riot if we don't get another video soon.

edit: what the hell is "watched"?

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I think, given that BL is before WB, having a single lion makes more sense than having multiple. As royal/noble families married into each other, they started to combine crests and heraldry, which would lead to the more complicated designs, but during the earlier period crests tended to be simpler

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BL is before WB but still based around eleventh century. Most  Europeans had already abandoned the monolithic 1 symbol style of heraldry and were incorporating multiple elements or at least multiple of the same thing. Most of the ones that were just one element were more than 2 tone and had an interesting or specific symbol, like a certain kind of cross or an image of national importance. Basically I want more lions. Add them to all the flags.

Vlandia is literally the Lannisters.

I think three lions in a triangle or a column would have been better, it looks a bit too monolithic for early Europe.

I really like the Aserai, Battanian, and especially Khuzait. Khuzait reminds me of the Golden Horde.

Really not sure about the Sturgians... was hoping you would do something Russian with it considering they're based on the Rus... oh well.

Better than last week's blog but I'm going to start a riot if we don't get another video soon.

edit: what the hell is "watched"?

Seriously? What a disappointment. Give us real info.

Snipped the flaming.

Wow there is a lot that is wrong here right from the start.

MaHuD 说:

@bustah

Because gameplay > realism

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How does making a shield work passively go against gameplay? If anything it would greatly improve it. If it's come to the point where you can just say "gameplay > realism" when they are actually a part of each other then why are we even playing games with a genre, with a story, with an idea? Why not just absolutely max out everything that is naturally fun?

@MaHuD

You don't know what you're talking about

Bustah 说:

100% passive coverage... against projectiles only. WHY???

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Partly balance, partly realism. A non-braced shield will only deflect an incoming blow along the surface of the shield, ostensibly towards the person holding it. Instead of being hit in the arm, you would end up deflecting the blow into your leg or shoulder/head. Warband didn't have IK animations and calculations for follow-through on melee attacks after the initial impact except against horses, so it wasn't possible to visualize or implement this without a redesign.

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What??? A non-braced shield? First of all, what does that even mean? Nobody on a battlefield is just going to be loosely holding their shield, their main system of defense in this time period, loosely to the point that it won't function. That's called suicide. Also blows do not slide up and down shields and go into your body. They bounce off of the shield. And if it does slide, somehow (you're holding the shield completely wrong or it's a massively powerful blow), it wouldn't have anywhere near enough momentum to hurt you (Talking about infantry on infantry. A horseman could break through the shield and still kill the guy but that's because he's going really fast. This should be represented though, and it would be through a better break-through system). Don't even try to claim realism on this... if shields were so useless that a blow could slide up them and kill you if you weren't paying 100% attention to your enemy, then I don't think every society for the past whatever millenia would have used them. If your blow hits my shield and my shield doesn't break, then your blow is done. Also, by your logic, arrows should slide up the shields and hit you in the eyes.

Block crush-though was a "feature" that was just assigned to certain weapons and was a random chance thing. How about a strong hit against a weak block means a breakthrough, no matter what you're holding.

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If you're talking about what the defender is holding, then my answer to you is: that's how it currently is. It's not random, either. IIRC it's simply a damage threshold that must be exceeded, and that threshold is determined by the weight of what the defender is blocking with. Oddly, this meant polearms (which are usually heavy) are among the best weapons for preventing crush-through.

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No, that's not how it is. With 50 Strength I can swing my warhammer at some guy with 0 Strength and because my weapon wasn't magically selected to be able to break through, his one-handed static grip will block it. Also why is it odd that polearms are the best thing to prevent crush through? Because they absolutely should be. There's no way to force the weapon out of the way like there would be with a smaller weapon and you're not going to break the damn thing, unless you hit dead on with a polehammer... but even then...

Also how does that peasant with a flimsy wooden shield stop my warhammer swing from atop a charging warhorse? Oh, because my weapon wasn't imbued with the magical powers of "Can crush through blocks"

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Pretty much every two-handed blunt weapon has crush-through. Polearms are an exception (though the polehammer might have it? IDK) but they cause additional stagger when hitting someone in the legs. The morningstar also has it. One-handed maces don't have it I guess because of an oversight or because it was tested and found to be too effective or ineffective and wasn't worth tweaking. Leaving the crush-through ability to heavy weapons that are typically blunt gives someone a reason to use those weapons beyond taking prisoners in SP, as they are very slow and easy to block.

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Why two handed? Why blunt? Why not just strong hit against weak defense means breakthrough? That should be it. Just lmao at the second part. Instead of making the heavy weapons as fast as they should be, let's just keep them ridiculously slow and give them a magically exclusive ability that should just be a feature for all weapons - that's the solution? Also the prisoners thing... I love how I warhammer going 40mph into a bare head just knocks the guy unconscious.

[quote author=lolbash]The skill level of a person ingame is an entirely different subject and I hope you know that.[/quote]
No dude. Skills. You know, power strike, ironflesh, one-handed, two-handed, polearms, etc. Not player skills.

Orion 说:

Bustah 说:

Could a very powerful hit from someone with very high strength with a heavy weapon push the shield back to the point of hitting the guy holding it? Perhaps this would also work with weapon blocks. I've always found it hilarious that a peasant with a hatchet can entirely block the overhead swing of a **** greatsword just by statically holding his hatchet up with one hand.

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monoolho 说:

KhergitLancer80 说:

Willhelm 说:

Will passive shields block arrows and weapons across the fill size of the shield or will you have to hold down block to actually block anything? Passive shields really need to block projectiles all over, and melee on a passive shield should block most of the damage still but push or flinch the holder since they're not ready.

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They already block stuff time to time but I agree that it needs to be improved.
It can contribute a lot to the combat depth.

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This. Passive shields (just being held, or when unequiped on the back) should be improved to better block projectiles.

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This isn't directed to anyone in particular (even though I quoted some folks, so don't take this personally), but we seem to have fuzzy memories about Warband here. Shields already have 100% passive coverage across their model. Block crush-through is also already a feature, and since we know Bannerlord will have the potential for cleaving through multiple enemies with a single swing it would be very questionable to not retain block crush-through.

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100% passive coverage... against projectiles only. WHY??? Block crush-though was a "feature" that was just assigned to certain weapons and was a random chance thing. How about a strong hit against a weak block means a breakthrough, no matter what you're holding. A peasant with a hatchet isn't going to stop a knight with a longsword just like a peasant with a longsword isn't going to stop a knight with a hatchet. It's all about strength and skill in that situation.

Also how does that peasant with a flimsy wooden shield stop my warhammer swing from atop a charging warhorse? Oh, because my weapon wasn't imbued with the magical powers of "Can crush through blocks"

Could a very powerful hit from someone with very high strength with a heavy weapon push the shield back to the point of hitting the guy holding it? Perhaps this would also work with weapon blocks. I've always found it hilarious that a peasant with a hatchet can entirely block the overhead swing of a ****ing greatsword just by statically holding his hatchet up with one hand.

I think in general you guys could take some notes from KC. The combat there is much better but it doesn't have to focus on scale... but that doesn't mean you guys can't incorporate some elements. One thing that would be great is that if you are holding LMB and moving the mouse around it should change the direction of the swing instead of doing nothing. I know people don't like feinting but people in Warband did it anyways, and there it just looked spammy and annoying. If you incorporate a legit feinting system it would look good and be more fair (predictable) than the feinting in Warband. Something else you could take from KC is to make weapon hits actually calculated by what they hit. If I swing a sword at a guy who is blocking in my direction but in watching the swing my sword still hits him, I should do damage. Same with shields, if a guy is holding his shield in front of him, mid-swing, all hits should still be blocked by that shield. I know I've talked about this ad nauseam but that's the point of a shield! And considering that this blog is about shields, please please please make this the case. If you think it makes shields overpowered then you have learned something new about history: they were. That's why they used them, all over the world, for thousands of years. Same with armour. Same with spears. Same with horses. And yet for some reason in Warband, all of these things are woefully underpowered.

Another suggestion is to make combat faster. This would increase difficulty such that people don't feel the need to resort to spinning and doing weird glitchy **** to win a fight, in singleplayer or multiplayer.

Thanks for the gifs tho, it looks cool. You might want to scale it up though. I feel like a hit from a big hammer would just go right past the tip of that shield. That way all the people *****ing about how this isn't a good enough blog can be satisfied that it translates to gameplay.

Hopefully someone can mod in all this CK2-like stuff people are talking about. I highly doubt it will be in the base game but I've always felt M&B could use a bit of characterisation (voice-overs, meaningful traits, dynamic personalities, intrigue, politics). With the way he's describing the moddability (is that a word?) of Bannerlord I think it could be possible. Also someone please redo 1257AD for Bannerlord

KhergitLancer80 说:

What about Mongols ?
How did they charge ?
Did they use overhead thrusts with lances ?
As far as I know they were the superb horsemen. What was their technic that made them seperated from other cavalry ?
Because I dont think it was just horse archery.

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They couched their lances, like everyone else. Whether it was two handed or one handed, they fought like everyone else. There were just a lot of them with genius commanders.