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Yeah, this is so unhelpful that I'd also just assumed it was a bug that was accidentally introduced, and not an intentional feature. To spell out why I don't like it, if I'm not quick to charge everybody when the rout starts then my troops just stand around cheering while potentially dozens (or even hundreds) of enemies run away (often right past them in an immersion- breaking manner), all of whom I will then have to fight again (because they usually reappear on the map as an enemy party).

Heroes_Witch_King 说:

(Snip)
I'd just like to point out that for those of you who played Skyrim, if you know the amazing mod SkyUI then how it would be amazing if Bannerlord had a similar User Interface to the one this mod for Skyrim has.
I mean, SkyUI basically made gaming lives for players much easier, it was easy to check out your current stuff, buy new items etc.
Also, I loved the most that it allows you to type the name of the specific item you are searching for. Bannerlord could have a similar UI to this.
It would be much more easier for players and also it's pretty damn cool

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Yeah, that's a great point. SkyUI is a great mod that addresses many (although not all) of the issues with Skyrim's really inefficient and confusing menu systems. One thing that M&B has on its side, though, is that it doesn't have to be specifically designed to be accessible to console users and console controllers the way Skyrim did. Based on the appearance of the GUI and a number of published comments by the art team, I think that a lot of the menu issues with Skyrim were a result of trying to make an iDevice-style interface that could be used by console players. That was, frankly, probably not a very good idea. iDevices are generally designed for touch users using physically small products with physically small control surfaces, meaning there's a ton of dead space in the interface that's there to keep people's fat fingers from accidentally activating the wrong control (or covering up important information). Those are not significant concerns for users of PC or console products.

So M&B:B shouldn't have that particular hurdle to overcome, but I agree that SkyUI is a much better template to base a games user interaction paradigm on than the original Skyrim GUI.

So obviously I'm a bit late to the party, but as a long time fan who does user experience assessment as part of my job, I saw this and just had to comment. First and foremost, it's great to see that the team has clearly identified user interface as an area where the previous games fell short. I always felt that UI was the single biggest failing of the series, and was one of the biggest barriers I noticed that prevented people I introduced to the series from getting into it.

Shopping is a mechanic!
It's often said that the gameplay mechanics of most RPGs basically come down to fighting and shopping, so the usability of this particular interface is likely to critical to the game's success. Therefore, it's encouraging that this was the interface example featured in the post, as it suggests Taleworlds is looking hard at the interface elements that support this core mechanic.

Left-right congruency and parallelism
Design-wise, it looks like the team is going for a "one-stop-shop" approach to the purchasing menu, with buying, selling, and equipping functions all available simultaneously (I assume there's also a separate equip interface that's available when not buying or selling at a vendor). This is a good idea in a lot of ways, because it reduces the probability of users making mode errors (mistakes where they sell a bunch of items they meant to buy, or visa versa because they were confused about which mode the interface was in). This kind of left-right congruent interface is a good way to do buying and selling. As an example, Skyrim doesn't use this kind of interface, and as a result you often aren't sure whether you're selling your items or buying the merchant's items.


Example: skyrim default merchant interface. Are we buying or selling? If we hit "E," will that buy the item selected, switch us to buy mode, or change from buy to sell mode?


The one stop shop approach does a lot to resolve this, as long as it's clear (and consistent across menus) which inventory panel belongs to whom. Color coding could be used to help emphasize this too, but a lot of times art teams don't like that because it messes with their color palette.

Display the most user-relevant information
While the basic composition of the interface makes a lot of sense, there are some other things that are likely to promote confusion or mistakes by users. First and foremost, the interface shows three properties for each item - a rough icon of its appearance, its name, and its cost. While these are important, the most critical aspect of each item is not shown - its actual effect on gameplay! How much does the northern padded gambeson add to my armor and weight? Right now it appears that the only way to tell is to equip it on my character and then subtract the previous values for armor and weight to see the difference (if I can remember them). This will be made more complicated if (as in previous games) some items affect, say, both body and leg armor, or have other values (like health and resistance for shields, or damage type for weapons with more than one attack mode).



The original WIP interface posted to the blog. Note that only price, name, and appearance are shown.

The interface for Warbands handled all of this with tooltips (i.e. there was even less info displayed on items), which wasn't much better, as you had to look at each item individually, although it did support the fantasy experience of the user (Malone, 1980 - http://cci.mit.edu/malone/tm%20study%20144.html) to some degree by making the user inspect each item like they were browsing in a shop. Still, this is quite inefficient, especially for new users who haven't learned to identify the icons for the nine or ten items that experienced users know are the only weapons and armor that are worth using.

Item effect comparisons
Another way to help users make good decisions quickly would be to show the impact of equipping the selected item on the paper doll. This would be most important with the effect on armor, weapon, or other item stats (see the mockup down at the bottom of the post), but it might also be neat to show the visual impact of the item switch on the avatar "paper doll."

Sortability
Ultimately, however, the primary result is likely to be lots and lots of lost time as users try on one item after another. Worse, they're likely to miss out on the best items in the mess and buy inferior or less appropriate items. This could be easily resolved by making the items sortable by each relevant property (primary statistic, weight, cost, and other things like damage type or required weapon skill for other types of items). This would allow the user to find, say, the lightest, or the cheapest, or the most protective armor type available, depending on their needs.

Fonts
There are other general issues. The signature "Mordred" font is a good choice, being both readable and appropriate for the setting (although it looks like it isn't quite Mordred anymore - some sort of variant?). However, in this interface the fonts are sometimes too small, leaving lots of dead space that isn't serving any function while also decreasing readability. An example of this is the armor value indicators and the numbers indicating prices, which are both unnecessarily small and oddly placed in the cell.

Arrow Indicators
It's impossible to tell from the screenshot (mockup?) whether the arrows are buttons, or just indicators. The highlighted row seems to suggest the latter. If so, then the arrows should be made to look less like buttons so people don't click uselessly on them. If they are buttons, then they ought to be made larger so people can click on them more easily (See Fitts's law at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts%27s_law to see just how much target size effects efficiency).

Scroll Bars
So the scroll bars have a cool-looking ambiance, but unfortunately some users might confuse the slider for the bar, especially since they appear to be dynamically-sized by list length, and so users won't necessarily be able to use this as a cue. This one should be an easier fix - consider putting a small area of a different pattern or texture at each end of the bar (ideally an arrow or arrow-like pattern of some kind) to help users tell the bar from the slider at a glance.

I did a quick and dirty mockup of some of the issues I pointed out above. I left the right side untouched, partly for comparison, and partly because I'm lazy. Anyway, see below.


Mockup of one possible alternate interface.


Anyway, that's what I spotted in a quick review of the interface screen. Hopefully this doesn't come across as too overbearing. I'm a huge fan of this series, and I'd just love to be able to tell my friends about the game without having to first spend five minutes explaining that they'll get used to the interface eventually, and that there's a great game underneath that. Accordingly, I hope you'll take my feedback in the spirit it's intended. I also hope that you guys are planning to do some direct user testing - you can do both empirical comparisons and think-aloud protocol tests with just the kind of static screenshots you've shown, but you can also get a lot more value out of your usability testing if you get users to play the actual build. Check out Steve Krug's Rocket Surgery Made Easy (http://www.amazon.com/Rocket-Surgery-Made-Easy-Do-It-Yourself/dp/0321657292#) for pointers, or better yet, get in touch with some usability specialists or game user researchers. There are academic programs around the world that also offer free or discounted user experience testing to clients to enhance their students' learning experience, which can be a great deal for a small game studio as well.

Anyway, keep up the great work guys! It looks fantastic so far, and I'm just dying to see what you come up with in the final product!

I typically either lead troops in a charge from the front, or stand behind them and use the advance option. More the former than the latter, for exactly the reason you describe. Once they're in contact, then I order the charge. Seems to work well.

Hey, I've finished a story set in the world of PoP, but I think it's too long and cumbersome to post here in its entirety, so I put it up on fanfiction (dot) net. To allow you to get a sense of whether it's something you're interested in reading, I've pasted in a chunk of it below. If you want to keep reading (or just start right in with the full version, for that matter), I've included the link to the full story at the end of the excerpt below.




It has become customary, in these later years, to consider the rise of Meredain Murcatto from mercenary to queen, and subsequently to empress, as the smooth working out of a preordained destiny, a brief adventure and a short, victorious war followed by an extended coronation. In fact, the three years of the crown unification wars were among the most uncertain and bloody in Pendorian history (which is a remarkable statement in itself, considering the blood-soaked origins of our empire). It is the purpose of the present work to examine more closely the actual events of the years 345-347 FFP, in an attempt to understand the remarkable events of that year, and the true role Meredain I played in the establishment of the Kingdom of Pendor and the beginnings of the Pendorian Empire. It is to this end that I, Henri Fouchier, set my pen to paper, at the fourth hour of the new day in the monastery of Eunomia Stabilitis, in the city of Marleon, on the 13th day of March, in the year 512 after the founding of Pendor.


When discussing Meredain I, we must first make a rather careful distinction between Meredain Murcatto, the historical leader, and the Divine First Empress, as revered by the Imperial Cult. I am a historian; I will confine myself to speaking of her role in the reunification of Pendor while living and walking among men as a physical person. I leave the metaphysics of her true identity and place in the pantheon to others. As a historical figure, Meredain Murcatto towers over the other notables of her age like the proverbial oak among pines. For such a pivotal character, however, we know surprisingly little about her origins and early life. We do not, for instance, know with certainty where she was born and raised, nor even the name of her father. We reason to believe that her father's name was Dain Murcatto, as she dedicated a monastery near Burglen to him. The similarity to her own name is interesting. Some scholars have speculated that it might contain a clue to her mother's name as well, as her name might well have been a combination of "Mere," "Mari" or" Meria" with her father's name, but this is merely conjecture based on a single, ambiguous line in Julia of Ethos's Historia Merediana. However, given the chronicler's long personal relationship with Meredain I, we should consider that if anyone was likely to know the origin of her name, it would have been Julia. Regardless, it is likely that no aspect of her origins will ever be fully understood, as she never encouraged inquiry on the subject during her reign and may even have actively discouraged it. This has led to rumors that she was protecting some unsavory secret, but it is far more likely that she simply preferred widespread speculation on a mysterious origin to certain knowledge of a mundane one that might have weakened her grip on the throne.

As interesting as such inquiry may be, this work is not intended to rehash the details of the personal history of Meredain, but rather to examine the role she played in the last three years of the crown wars (generally recognized as spanning the period 202-347 FFP). Thus, we begin our story in the year 345 FFP. Although later priests and historians have identified dozens of signs and symbols to herald the arrival of Meredain Murcatto to the shores of Pendor, contemporary writers (notably Madame Ursula of Ravenstern) made no such observations. It is likely that no one expected much out of the future besides continued war, chaos, and instability.

If you'd like to continue reading, you can find the rest at the following link.
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/7469600/1/The_Rise_of_a_Queen

My apologies if this has been previously mentioned, but I have connectivity problems and it takes about 10 minutes to load a page, so I haven't scanned all the previous posts. Anyway, I find that while working for swadia (King Harlaus) during any siege of a city the game works admirably until the battle inside the keep, at which point *everybody,* including my friends, attacks me and I'm (usually) killed. This happened at both Halmar and Narra (once as a militiaman and once as a man-at-arms).

Umm, no, but anyway, back to the topic...

RoCCs work really well if you use them appropriately - they aren't lancers, they're medium-weight horsearchers. Deploy them in line and keep them retreating before the enemy, preferably while distracting them by leading a small unit of fast horse around to their rear, and they'll wreak havoc on almost anyone. Don't charge them until the enemy are cut to ribbons and fleeing the field. Between their speed and their horsarchery, they're hell on routers, and that speed allows them to retreat back into a skirmish line as enemy reinforcements arrive.

Against Jatu, they're fearsome, but only if you can avoid the initial Jatu banzai charge. Get out in front of your troops on a fast horse (coursers of all varieties work well) and draw the Jatu into trying to chase you while you circle around counterclockwise. As they turn their unshielded lance sides to the RoCCs and get in each others' way, they'll be slaughtered en-masse by showers of arrows as your rangers close, and then hacked to death at close range. This tactic works with other mounted units too, btw. A charging Jatu coming at you head-on is a threat to any unit on the battlefield. A charging Jatu chasing a fast horseman perpendicular to the line of battle is a handy opportunity for your troops to practice their deflection shooting in relative safety.

Noosers, or some other dev, can you comment on why those units aren't available for the player to recruit once the appropriate city is owned? I have a single unit of marleons cavalry that feels very lonely and would like some company. After all, wasn't part of the point of the mod to add color and depth to the game? I'd imagine there's a balance or gameplay intent reason?

I didn't see any modifications to troop lines in this particular project, but a few of these changes (mines adjustments) might be a little out of scope. I also think making changes that aren't savegame compatible is probably a bad idea. It takes forever to get leveled and equipped for success in this game - most people aren't going to start over for a prettier campaign map.

I also think your new project (troop lines) might well have the same problem. There are some oddities in PoP's design on that point (Fierdsvain axemen vs. warriors, for instance, and the different types of rogue squire), but overall most people seem comfortable with the system as-is. I would love to see someone add support for the settlement-specific troops (Marleons Cavalry, anyone?).

The principle of submodding is pretty well established in most modding communities, although it is typically considered polite to inform the original modding team of your intentions. The author may well have done this, though - I suspect Saxon Dragon is a little distracted at the moment, and may not be responding to PMs.

Quite whining, RAM is dirt cheap right now, just like all other computer hardware. Consider yourself lucky that you have a game to play that makes you *want* to spend 50 bucks on 4 more gigs.

So I have an observation to add to the discussion, and also a guess.

When allied lords don't follow me around, they seem to hang out with the infantry (there are a couple of confounding variables here, so I'm not 100% sure that there isn't some other reason for this - for instance, if I'm not the marshall and therefore not in charge).

Regardless, here's my guess as to the two reasons, one practical and one aimed at promoting immersion.

Immersive: If I, as the marshall or king, am properly in command of all allied troops in a field engagement, then the appropriate place for the other lords (or leaders, in the absence of a lord) is with me to confer or receive orders. The same should be true of the enemy.

Practical: Typically, the safest place on the battlefield is next to the PC. When a lord goes charging off and gets kacked (which is typical warband/M&B behavior), this a) reduces the relation benefit when speaking to them later and b) creates the odd situation of a friendly party driving around the map with a leader at 0% health, which may well have odd secondary effects. I have a suspicion that this also has something to do with division of loot, or prisoners, or something like that, as disabled characters do not apply their skill bonuses to their army when calculating casualties and defining loot. I have a related notion that perhaps there is a check for the percentage of different troop classes involved, to reduce the likelihood of a lord operating as an expendable cavalryman when there are only a few friendly cavalry on the field.

Alternatively, it could also have to do with how Vicky calculates formation types and where it places friendly units not under my direct command.

Yeah, that non-rotational formation thing really messed up horsearchers. Used to be (original M&B) you could tell 'em to fall in, and they'd try to maintain a facing against the enemy, no matter where you were relative to their center of gravity. Of course, it also took 'em thirty seconds to start following you. It still works pretty well with small groups of horsearchers or in wedge formation - just keep riding around the enemy counterclockwise.

You can skirmish KoCC's just fine. They're kind of like cheap, easy to train heroic adventurers, with a more consistent color scheme. Tell em to mount to keep em on their destriers, then undo their formation and run them up to the enemy in a skirmish line (with small numbers, you can spread them out a little, though I generally don't). Target them 30 yards or so in front of the enemy formation, and they'll ride up, peppering them with arrows. Eventually, they'll take down a couple of the enemy infantry and provoke a charge. Just tell em to hold 30-40 yards behind their current position and a little to your right, and they'll turn and ride off, firing parthian shots all the way. Repeat a couple of times, then when the enemy routs or you run out of real estate to retreat into, order em to advance and then charge after they make contact and they'll fight like regular heavy cav. With 60 or so KoCC, you can rout most enemy lord armies with arrow fire alone. Plus, that green gear is very recognizable on the battlefield, which reduces the rate of "D'oh, friendly fire!" moments in a hairball. And, well, it looks kinda spiffy too.

I suppose you could adjust the definition of honor to the more traditional medieval version, where it actually only applied to what you did to nobles and had a lot to do with success. You'd then get honor for winning battles, releasing prisoners, being nice to ladies, and chopping peasants into cube steak. You'd have to mess with the triggers quite a bit, though.

This looks very nice, but I wish you'd played with the configuration of the terrain a bit? That's has long been something I hoped someone would do. Is anyone else bothered by the completely arbitrary placement (from a geographical, not a gameplay perspective) of bodies of water and mountain ranges in the game? What the hell is with all the massive inland lakes? Was Pendor recently glaciated and now undergoing global warming? The lake betwen Laria and Marleons seems to be magically created from a bunch of streams that have their headwaters in open plains, and that giant inland sea walling off Ravenstern looks like a giant moat. I get that the devs love Ravenstern, but they seem a little *too* geographically blessed, whereas Sarleon is diced up into tiny, hard-to reach chunks, making political unification (or responding to threats) a real challenge. And then there's that lovely bolo-shaped lake combination in the south-center of the map - three lakes, each parked neatly next to a city, all of them fed by a three branched river that apparently originates at a magical and extremely powerful spring. 

Not that I don't love the heck out of this game, but I do occasionally find myself bemused by the geography of Pendor.

I can extend Aure's advice in a little more practical direction. To sow discontent in a faction, it's easiest if you belong to it. There are a couple of ways to proceed, but the most direct is to build up your renown very high, then become the marshall. This is easy if your renown is high and your relationship with the king is good, but you may have to "encourage" the current marshall to step aside to make room for you by engineering their capture (dragging powerful armies into them works well). Once you have the marshallship, summon the lords to war and (after they've all assembled) start taking as many settlements as you can. After you take a settlement, you have the option to ask for it or not. Ask. Then, turn around and talk to every lord accompanying you, one at a time. Ask each in turn who they think the next settlement to be awarded should go to, but don't tell them whom you favor. You should find that there are several candidates for the fief, many of whom will have supporters among the other lords. Pick one candidate that you want to build up relations with, and go find one of his supporters. Tell them that you support their choice, lord so-and-so. You'll gain relation both with the candidate, and with the supporter you were talking to. If your reknown and honor are high and your relationship with your king is good (I've been very successful at this with 300 honor, 2k reknown, and +30 or so relations with the king) you should eventually be awarded the fief. When this happens each lord who was a candidate loses a variable amount of relationship with the king, depending, I suspect, on the number and type of fiefs they currently hold. The more often you repeat this, the more aggravated the other lords in your faction become. I'd imagine if you start running out of fiefs you can start giving them up to the enemy, but I've never tried this. In the meantime, keep defeating and releasing your enemies - this builds up positive relation with you and reduces their relationship with their king. You can use a similar tactic with your own lords, although it's more metagaming than Machiavellian. Tell individual lords to follow you, one or two at a time, and then go hunting for enemies. Try to get your followers engaged against a superior enemy force. Don't help them, wait right next to the battle until they are captured (- relation with the king). Then attack the weakened victor, defeat and release him (for + relation and honor) and automatically release your fellow faction lord (again for + relation and honor). Keep this up long enough and all your enemies and fellow lords will love you, and hate their sovereigns. Actually, as a lovely little bonus, it appears that any lord who reaches +100 relation with you (it might happen sooner, I'm not sure) won't mind being captured and doing so won't cost you relation points, so you can start ransoming all of your friends eventually, and no one will hold it against you.

I believe there's a more complicated way, involving the "can we work together to advance our interests?" dialog option that pops up with allied lords, but I'm not sure how exactly that works.

I believe the "naked pretty girl" is a reference to Thallo Ver Shures, the Fierdsvain goddess of fertility. She has a habit of tripping starkers through the tulips, and (although it's never happened to me) will apparently occasionally speak to players in POP. Although I could be wrong - maybe Sumpfkraut knows something I don't.

Indeed. Very, very sad. We deeply appreciate all that Mason did for us on these forums, and hope her last days are peaceful and fulfilling.

Regards,

Adams

Reserved (in case I run out of space)