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You always have the option to stick to one certain version, it's pointless asking TW to slow down thier path.

Tbh not a real problem consider how weak and expensive cavalries already are.........

Delinard 说:

Is it possible to play as your brother? At least you can have fun with a really good character for few years in the end lol.

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Afair it's possible, but your brother is weaker than your first character a bit if you carefully build your guy.

My point is the heir system could be the juice to give lvl system a surprise, that your next generation have more attribute/focus points so that they could reach high skills easier and faster, it fit the game design that "the later the better, the later the more enjoyable", but atm it's just a QoL nightmare.

You know what's worse?
Your heir is weaker than your lvl1 first character, that means the first character is already the easiest/best/most "enjoyable" character for character build

The biggest problem of bannerlord's leveling system is you gain skills harder and harder, and by this case you cannot even save the harvest of your grinding——your character will pass one day and you will have to pick a heir weaker than your start character(weaker at same lvl, hell), or you will have to disable the whole death/Heir system, atm high level perks are more likely a thing leave to moders, for vanilla version it's not enjoyable at all grinding those skills.

It's fine not easy to reach high skills, but in this case it is also important to keep the hardwork did by players, to show the respect to their time and trust on the dev team. Bannerlord badly need the export system back to warband, and heirs should be hugely buffed.

The feature should be added, maybe with a campaign option to enable or not.

10% is definitely too much, consider how hard it is for companions to upgrade skills(especially combat skills).

Moton 说:

Does it really need change? I think it's good or else you're gonna fet maxed heirs after some generations (if you play that much lol)

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Comparing the possibility of this "exploit", the issue that your heir being too weak is obvious a true problem.

Let me compare you with your Heir:
both lvl1
first character: 18total attribute points
heir:15total attribute points

Each 4 level provides 1 attribute points, so technically speaking your heir is 12 levels weaker than your character.

Besides your heir started with lvl5 with no skills above 15, so it upgrades much harder than your first character, and of course hold much less potential.

So, really needn't a change?

Here goes the screenshots:

PS:
WAIT, the system has even more problem, it's bugged
Actually the heir has 10 free attribute points but no focuses, so it's not just sucks, it's straight bugged

Changed the title, it's not just a discussion thread for a feature, but also an advance warning for those haven't experienced the education system yet(considier it's not a early game feature), a report for serious balance/QoL issue about character development/clan system.

Qwezz 说:

I also agree with this, grinding out your first character is frustrating enough.It's only really fun at the start where your skills don't level at the pace of a snail, having to do it all over again in the middle of a campaign would be unbearable for me. Unless TW make major adjustments to the leveling system, which are long overdue anyways.

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For QoL I agree with this too, so my thought is even with random quality, there should be at least one heir better than your start character as a reward and encouragement for your insisting to the game.

The second character is fine being weak at the start as well, but it MUST has more potential and easier to raise than the first character(to be this it should have more total points), for game design wise.

Apocal 说:

Where is the "My heir should be better in every way" option?

Have you guys seen the stats on 18-25 year old nobles at game start? We're talking across the board hundreds in combat skills plus Stewardship, Riding, Athletics, Tactics, Leadership, etc. Give me that.

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Added the option

For people who voted heir should be weaker than your first character.....
You understand I mean it's the comparation between base Attribute&Focus point right?
I am comparing the heir with your first character's "start stats", the lvl 1 VS lvl1, and sadly atm it is your heir's lvl5 being weaker than your lvl1

Agreed, besides we don't even need new models for special armors, currently speaking player needs to farm to late game to get the "top tier" armor, which your peasant troop could access within a week is pretty dumb.

dannazgu 说:

This too much Crusadr Kings frnchise copy

You can't compare CK3 to this game, because are games that offer two different things

Unless you cheat not always your dynasty will be better as well on CK3

The fun of multigenareations is that your next heir could be worse than your previous character, but then a system of Rebellion and Civil War would be need to be in place... but that's too much CK2 and CK3 inside Bannerlord

Of course I'd love see more depth on the clans and families, specially a Civil War feature....but, Bannerlord doesn't offer the same thing as CK or Total war... I see TW's games as unique and a combination of both, CK franchise and Total War franchise... But, too much of it could be seen as Plagianism and TW lose her identity.

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I agree there should be both worse and better Heirs, the point is you always have at least ONE Heir being better than your first generation to pick.
And of course, it's your freedom to pick the worse one yourself for immersion things.

You got one point, M&B is still a RPG game, where character build is a core concept, it's not like CK3 or something that you can build a character within 1 hours and let him die and chose a Heir to continue(well, even in CK3 it is possible to make new generations better than elder generations). In M&B we build our first character for at least 50 hours till him pass, if we lost him entirely, that means our 50 hour's character builds are wasted, just image you managed to get your 2H to 270 and being a blademaster by killing thousands of people, and when you passed all those kills mean nothing in this savegame, if you don't cheat.

I think there should be a feature to ensure the normal pass of your character being a good news instead of a bad news, it's easy to be done. Just give next gerenation more potenial, and faster learning rate, so you gain more joy by building your second character, as:
- You are building a new fresh character
- You know this new character will be stronger than your first character
- You build new character faster than former character

Dabos37 说:

Do agree with leveling system is pretty frustrating and should be faster to increase skills. Especially when we have death enabled.

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Agreed, and it's mainly for heroes instead of player itself, as Heroes cannot upgrade as fast as player but suffers more from death.

Also, to rebalance the leveling system and make late game more enjoyable than early game, I would suggest player gains MORE exp with higher levels, so we won't bump our skills too quickly at the begining and too slowly for later.

Another idea is we also get time bonus for exp gaining, like each year provides 1% more exp so raise the character from next generation would be faster to fit the game, it's still a RPG game, the character we are controlling should be stronger and stronger. You know, even in CK3 we could raise super human Heirs, why can't we have better Heirs in Bannerlord? I believe it cost a bit more to raise the next generation in Bannerlord than CK3.

Agree, since it's almost the only way for player to use his "gov" abilities.

Revverie 说:

Sorry but your correction does not hold up. Warband makes you choose a family background too. The freedom is literally the same, and even in Bannerlord is the same thing, the difference in Bannerlord is that you see them in the screen, see, the three games are built on the same concept, you decide on your parents, your childhood, your adolescence and your present.

This is wrong too. First of all, you don't forcefully start as the heir of the throne, that's just a char screen option you can choose from (the one that says that you recieve a letter that changes your life), the other choices don't force this upon you. As I've said before the three build the same concept, but the difference is that both Warband and Pendor do not give you a present family and in Pendor you start roaming around in the map, and you basically can just skip every part of the chat creation and do your own thing, meanwhile in Bannerlord, you have like 2 brothers and a sister and a whole clan, so I don't know how do you call this freedom, I do not like being forced to be with people I don't know at all, and apparently with a clan with a banner even if you choose to be a poor dude from the wilds.

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I took part in the development of PoP and discussed with the author about the lore and future for PoP for many times so your "no" "no" are just pointless arguements.

I guess you didn't really read the little story of the begining of Pendor right?
https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...-history-and-tales-of-pendor-backstory.54010/
Why write the story of a couple of noldor twins from thousand years ago? What does the sentence

There were very lengthy dialogues between Althea and the Oracle about countering and defeating this influence in the world and about the sons of Avaldain, who, being part Elf and part Human, had a chance to ultimately put an end to the Sindari influence on the world of Pendor.

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means? And you ever try to know who is the women speak to the player after character created?

The simple answer is player is just roleplaying the heir of the Ancient Noldor twins, also the heir of the First King of Pendor, pick the letter or not doesn't matter the "blood" of player's character, he/she is always the last heir, letter just revealed the truth at the begining of the adventure. And that "Sir Darlion of Pendor" is a cousin of player character, which is not the true Heir but hold the responsibilty of the player character so "you" have the chance to freely begining as noone. So yeah in PoP you started with a brother too, just you can not even recruit without a stupid claimant quest.

So PoP is less sandbox a bit than Warband or Bannerlord, it's a story where you need to unite the Whole Land and not supported to have roguo-like or badass roleplays, it will be the core path of PoP, in Warband or Bannerlord version.

The advantage of PoP is quality, variety and lore, not freedom, in this mod you MUST be friendly with some green people enjoying shooting your ass to acheive "victory", in this you mod CANNOT be friend with badass Heretic black knights as the system will decrease them to negative by force. Then freedom is not a pure advantage, sometimes freedom and randomness results characters being soulless, bannerlord uses random spawned companions, that's a bit more freedom than PoP's designed companions, but do you really like those random companions in bannerlord than those designed companions in PoP? at least for me bannerlord companions are just high tier units not living friends like those in PoP or even Warband native.

Again it's pointless using a mod base on former series ****ting the current developing game, no moders like you use their work from love to spread hates to original games. PoP is a low fantasy traditional knight adventure story, you cannot really expect bannerlord using PoP designs expect some QoL implements, and AFAIR Bannerlord do has more convenient QoL comparing with PoP.