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Just came back through to read about the EA release.

Seeing this thread and learning about "perks"?

Yikes.

I loathe perk systems, really disappointed TW went that route.

Well I can't speak to the diplomacy mod because I no longer use it.

But in native it has an effect on whether a lord will choose to join you but isn't the sole factor. If a lord is expelled or defects he may join your if you have lands to offer, have good relations (not 100% on this but seems to be the case) and most likely his relations with other factions/rulers have an effect.

You'll get plenty of stragglers along the way but when you approach lords and ask for their allegiance, your relations, persuasion skill, and right to rule affect whether they join you or not. With a low right to rule you'll have a harder time because you aren't recognized as legitimate, but it's not impossible to recruit.

I would venture to say there is something in diplomacy mod that caused them to all declare war on you (never had that happen so early in native, and is the main reason i quit diplomacy). From my experience in native, factions wage war on you when you become too powerful, immediately after a rebellion, and just random chance based off whom you border with.

Disclaimer: that's all anecdotal evidence, but i have many different play throughs and many many hours in single-player campaign (this is the only game i play).

I've never actually put much into chr and/or leadership, 2 or 3 points at most. I've done horse archer builds with 30AGI (weapon master and skill proficiency makes a BIG impact) and high STR with only a few INT. Basically high damage bow, fast as hell on a horse, picking off any troops with ease.

I've also done high INT medic characters with balanced AGI and STR, which I find a lot of fun. Not only for the usefulness of medic skills but being "weak" makes you play differently and more careful.

Then I've done a few Rambo types, some footmen, some mounted, but going all in on STR/AGI.

You can make a big impact in battle, what you lack in army size or fancy party skills, you can more than make up the difference with how many kills you get. Figure if you can chop down 15-20 more enemies in a battle, you can outweigh most of your deficiencies.

For companions I actually love having "beefcake" ones, on a war horse and good gear, they can chop down many enemies and stand toe to toe with swadian knights.

There is a bit of a disadvantage because having 20 extra cavalry will of course be incredibly useful but again, being a beast on your own with sturdy companions will balance out. Gotta hand it to Taleworlds, they made almost every playstyle and build viable.

So tldr version; Yes you can do fine with a Rambo type character, you just have to pay a little more attention to tactics since you won't outnumber everyone.

Might want to ask this in the diplomacy mod section, seems like that's what you are using because trade pacts etc. aren't in native.

CuriousTrout 说:

Hey everyone, in my current file I'm leveling up my companions to be trainers (10) but my main character is picking up most INT skills (to get that 14).

My companions all have 15 STR, 12 AGI, and are progressing to 30 INT (except Klethi, who has 30 AGI to get Looting), but I've run into an odd problem. I have too many skill points. It's worthless for them to pick up INT based skills besides Trainer because I have them, and they all already have maxed out Ironflesh, Power Strike, Riding, Shield, Athletics, and Weapon Master.

Currently they're all suited out as Knights with Morningstars and Shields, with a Siege Crossbow for, well, Sieges. Which brings me to my next question. As I have excess points, would putting 4 points into Horse Archery and 5 points into Power Draw be worth it? Or would they actually be more effective relying strictly on melee when not in sieges? And if so, what might be a decent use of points?

If it changes anything, I roll with exclusively Swadian Knights. I tried a Huscarl / Sharpshooter mix using orders, but even that wasn't as effective.

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Horse archery/archery is what I go for.

If they have a couple nice party skills you can give them just a bow and arrows and they'll stay "alive" through most battles since they naturally avoid close combat.

And for seiges I always prefer bowmen because of the rate of fire. It's not a scientific approach but I find bowyers much more effective because when they are prone (on ground level shooting up) more shots seems to be the better option because most shots that connect will be headhsots anyways, so the extra power from crossbows doesn't generally make a difference.

But again for open battles, horse archery on them is awesome because they act like true horse archers so long as you don't give them a melee weapon.

Kaiji 说:

AmateurHetman 说:

Kaiji 说:

Cpt. Nemo 说:

They spent several years working on a new engine, and even remade it during development of the actual game. And yes, 5 years is situation normal for development time.

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Nope.

Games typically take between one to three years to develop. Five years is most definitely not the norm.

Bannerlord is obviously larger in scale than the typical game but it's nowhere near the development scale of a game like Skyrim, which was full of individual scripted quests and seamless world design. Skyrim took a corporate-backed team three years to develop, so it's not unreasonable to expect a decent sized indie team like Taleworlds to take a lot less than seven years to develop a game like Bannerlord.

Obviously Taleworlds have had development problems, and these things happen. The only problems I have are their unappreciative, disrespectful approach to community relations, and their unflinching fanboy army who would probably still be here shouting down anyone who's frustrated even if the game was delayed into 2020.

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1-3 years are for games with high budgets, some of the best talent, pre-existing engines and usually with many pre-existing resources etc.
Bannerlord is made by a developing company that is still learning, they've made their own engine from scratch and basically had to implement all their unique mechanics/resources into it. You can't really compare.
It's a far more complex game then say call of duty.

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I already said Bannerlord is larger in scale than the typical game and acknowledged that it's an indie team, but you're right. Taleworlds are clearly still green when it comes to game development given the clunkiness and lack of polish in everything they release.

This is why, even after seven years of development, I expect Bannerlord to be better looking than Warband but still clunky and unpolished. Another game that has a crappy feel to it but you play it because there's nothing else out there with a similar overall design.

It really makes me wish a bigger, more competent studio would take the M&B design and do a more professional take on it.

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Where do you get the 7 year figure?

They announced it in sept 2012. Not even 5 year mark yet.

Also skyrim was in development for more than 3 years, and they released it with many, many cut features and was a bug ridden mess.

That was with 90+ person team and 80+million budget.

Calm your tits

P.S. If a "bigger and more competent" studio took it over, they would probably kill everything we love about it.

Ixzzhaeldir 说:

Hi,

I was just wondering. Since rebelling against my own king I now became a sovereign monarch. Now the game suggests that I go under protection of another kingdom. This means that I lose all my fiefs that I have been wanting to keep thus the case for my rebellion. So if I be under another king again while beimg king at the same time then he give me new fiefs and castles. If i break away from him in the futute will i still own those fiefs or lose them again?

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Uhh not quite. If you rebel from a kingdom and take a few feifs with you, you can then swear to another kindom and you will keep those fiefs. 

I did it 2 days ago on unmodded warband.

The only time you lose the fiefs is if you renounce your oath through dialogue with your king.

thefinn 说:

Either I'm overlooking something basic or this is a long long game. (1300 days in).

My army can take 84 people right now, so I can really only take over castles that have been left without much in the way of garrison. And when I do of course I'm going to lose like 30-50% of my guys depending on the castle. Then of course the faction I take it from just rolls in with 1400 guys and it's over.

So at what point is taking over a castle and creating your own faction viable?

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You are ready to go my lord.

Depending where you are in terms of loyalties:

If you are solo: Find a castle with low amounts of archers, in a faction that is currently at war, and hopefully the castle is away from their mainland. Raid a caravan of whoever owns your target castle then you should be able to siege it and turtle up and hopefully they don't even bother to come for you since their busy with another faction.

If you are a vassal: Similar to above only, go to your king and ask to be released. After that raid a caravan of whoever owns your target castle (not your previous faction!), then as above go and take it but as soon as you do return to your king and swear loyalty to him again. This will cancel the war and you wont have to worry about retaliation from the previous owners (for now).

Most of the time when you siege you'll want help from other lords but if you target castles with low amount of archers (about 20-25 or lower) you can park your archers and infantry below and pick the enemy archers off, then some of their footmen. Thus making your final push have a higher chance to succeed and can do it alone. It's hard but doable.

guineawolf 说:

i go to village center try to speak to the village elder,and i see a townwomen is quite pretty,then i ask her trade,she says"i am not doing anything ,sir.I have no land of my own,and there is no work to be had around here these days. "

i ask her "how is life here?"
she said"Disaster has struck my family,sir.We have no land of our own,and the others have no money to pay for our labor,or even to help us.My poor children lie at home hungry and sick.I dun no what we will do."
then there is 2 options to be choose=
1."Then take these 300 denars.I hope this will help you and your family."
2."then clearly you must travel somewhere else,or learn another trade."

    i pick the first 1,then message"you lost 300 denars","your relationship with Kedelke is improved"
    then she said"My lord,you are so good and generous.I will tell everyone how you helped us.",then the end,she walk away.
    then i notice my relationship with this village has increase by 1
    and there is "Recruit Volunteers" option available .....again....



does any of you guys meet this be4?

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Yep, its random chance in any village. Might be towns too not sure.

Also any time your relation goes up with a town you can recruit more troops, even if you had just recruited.

It can be good to walk about villages talking to everyone and get this little dialogue, quick and cheap way to build relations

KeisariValdamestur 说:

kuwhar 说:

Are you using any mods?

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No im not using mods ;-; am i missing some decisions and extended conversations? like i feel like im supposed to do something with the nobles at my prison

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What are you trying to accomplish?

As far as i've ever known there is nothing you can really do with them while in your prison.

You may get an offer at some point from their kingdom for release, or he may escape at some point. But past that, there really isn't anything to accomplish with them.

Are you using any mods?

Ki-Ok Khan 说:

snip

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wow dude triggered much?

All of the things they've talked about are subject to change, they preface every gameplay video with that statement. Along with need for polishing etc etc so all those texture and placement "bugs" you are talking about; calm down. They are still developing and polishing, hence no announced release date.

The game isn't even in beta phase and you're freaking out about what is or isn't in the game.

I think you spend too much time looking for things like that because a couple of this pictures it took me a while to find the issue, so your really hyper-analyzing things. So when you say major bugs that's obvious hyperbole, especially considered you haven't been able to play and all you can point to are textures and shaders.

You act like they owe you anything, you haven't paid for the game or pre-ordered have you?

Again; 5 years is a normal development cycle and what people seem to forget is when they first announced, that's when development began. As in concept and planning, not coding/world building.

Skyrim took about 5 years and had a massive budget and team compared to taleworlds.

If there is one thing I can fault them for doing, it's announcing that they were beginning development at all. Because of people like yourself that want to pound the drum for release and then be the first to criticize when something goes wrong.

They are doing it the right way, taking their time and not rushing, something every game studio gets criticized for not doing after releasing a buggy unfinished day 1 patch ****fest.

Ki-Ok Khan 说:

kuwhar 说:

Ki-Ok Khan 说:

I think it is about time that Taleworlds starts getting called out by everyone.

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For what exactly?

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Everything they are doing wrong.Or lacking.
https://www.taleworlds.com/en/Games/Bannerlord/Features
You would think that atleast we could have the released features here.

After years of development you would think they would be near release. Game still looks like it contains a lot of major bugs from the screenshots they have showed.

Their last blog was not a blog. It was not even a "dive" into the npc interactions like they claimed.

For the 15th Developer Blog entry, we dive into the details of NPC interaction and Bannerlord's revised recruitment system.

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Not even a single information we did not know about.

And even more I cant remember about.

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Have the released features for an unreleased game? Lol

I didnt know about that info in the blog, so if you got it from somewhere else beforehand; great. Doesnt mean it was widely known. We cant all research every article published all over the net.

And yeah theyve been developing for about 5 years, pretty standard development time. Or would you rather them take the skyrim route and promise a bunch of features that never make it into the game?

Ki-Ok Khan 说:

I think it is about time that Taleworlds starts getting called out by everyone.

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For what exactly?

DanAngleland 说:

Right. Just waiting for that good Rome or crusades total conversion mod. It's almost been seven years of Warband, none in sight yet...I can't say any mod has held my attention longer than native either (most far less), apart from Battle for Sicily for M&B version .808.

Some of the changes they have made to the game reflect modding improvements to Warband, and the ethos they have repeated is that they want to make it the game Warband had the potential to be- to feel fleshed out, to be done properly. There will always be a craving for different scenarios, which is where total conversions come in (though good completed ones are rare), but there shouldn't be as many shortcomings in native gameplay and thus less need for gameplay mods to try (largely in vain) to compensate.

I don't have a lack of respect for modders, they do things I cannot and through ingenuity and effort they have done a range of unexpected things with Warband and M&B. It's just that so often the results don't feel like they fit the game that well, and I come away thinking of them more as a demonstration of why we need a sequel than a good solution to the shortcomings of native.

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Couldnt agree more.

Any mod ive played has sent me running back to native with even more passion. No doubt modders can do some great work, but a lot of decisions just feel arbitrary and it isnt until your 20 hours in you realize how unbalanced it is or you have to use a lame gimmick just to clear certain hurdles

cherac 说:

Honestly going to villages and getting volunteers was one of the best recruitment mechanic out there , it was easier, a little realistic and felt natural .Now its getting weird , I really don't like this recruitment feature ,it feels unnecessary .... I want to go to a village, get some young men, and train them to knights or whatever ,but begging for quests from town to town just to get a few recruits....I don't know what the blog meant ,but I hope both options are available and the town recruitment npc's give better troops than village recruitment (Also just a wild dream but a cool idea (if we could analyze each individual in our army, since they all have different faces, they could have different names and so on, probably a mod would add this)

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I see where you are coming from but it doesnt seem that much different from native.

In native you did quests for the village which increased you standing, thus increasing recruitment potentil.

This system sounds like it breaks it down smaller so maybe there is still a town relation, but you can further increase recruiting potential by having a good relationship with the "middle man".

So maybe its akin to say you would normally get 5 troops. A good relation in the town you get 3-4 more, and on top of that a good relation with this npc in particular you get another 3-4.

It does seem a little redundant because youd always just talk to the elder anyways, but i dont think it sounds very much different, it just adds another layer.

Its entirely possible and not very hard to be honest.

I think many people dont enjoy khergits because they need to be used differently then any other faction both in open battle and in seiges. You have to pick your spots and be careful how you approach thjngs.


For seiges you want to do it in stages, and depending if you can garrison troops already, your tactic will change. If you can, take all horse archers and have them hold position so they fire on the walls taking out the defenders archers. Tip: if the enemy out numbers you with knly their archers, dont attempt it alone.

For that strategy the only thing that matters is the amount of enemy archers. If you outnumber theirs, you will be able to pick them off on their walls until only melee troops remain. Let your archers use all their ammo and retreat, and keep coming back until you can easily overwhelm the enemy.

It can get annoying dealing with moral loss but i found it to be effective and you dont get as many deaths as sending troops up the ladder to get picked off.

If you cant garrison yet, have your lancers hold ground in front of your archers so they can absorb arrows with their shields. Same deal just retreat when your archers run out of arrows, rinse repeat, you will see that it takes a bit but theres also less loss of life and you dont have to do it all at once. You can whittle them down over time so you can regain morale or retrain troops between seiges.

And as Nemo said they can be extremly powerful in the open field, they just need a little more management than normal.

I had this same issue with a fresh native install.

Also i can't do bandit lairs for some reason, i click into them and it instantly pops out and fails me.

If you need a quick influx of cash you can always raid a prosperous village.

If you do this only sparingly it won't hurt you long-term but it can be a very nice influx of cash and let you hire mercs en-masse.

Target warbands with many prisoners so you can hire the prisoners. A lot of times in the midst of a war, bandits or deserters will have a handful of well-trained troops as prisoners and can be an easy way to get a slew of good troops.

Also hiring your own prisoners is an option. Sea raiders are pretty decent along with groups of deserters. Just be sure you have plenty of food/morale otherwise they will desert quickly.

I'm sure you're aware but raising the trainer skill for yourself and companions is a phenomenal way to get high-tier troops quickly. In 2-3 days rest you can get mid to upper tier fighters.

So you could train in arena's, level up that way focus on training skill etc. and do quests for a few villages.

There's a lot of ways to do it and you listed a few that work well also, but in the end it takes time to build an army no matter how you slice it.

you can start by LESS TALKING MORE RAIDING!!


but more detailed notes: (note: this is assuming you want to rule the lands yourself and not under a faction)

1. Start by serving as a mercenary for factions during wartimes, it helps with relations and can net you good troops/cash by helping in bigger fights.

2. Swear vassalage to a faction whom you have good relations with a number of lords. It doesn't have to be a lot (or any really) but it makes it easier to have a few friends around. As time goes you'll make more friends and other lords will start to respect you.

3. Obtain a fief. You'll probably get offered a village at first but, you eventually want a castle or a town. This takes good relations with both the king of the faction and his subjects. It's essentially a popularity contest BUT a lot of weight is given to the marshall or leader of the siege. (you don't have to be the marshall to lead one it just makes it easier to get more lords following you)

4. Once you obtain a castle/town you should start to train up troops. As many as you can afford and still post a profit weekly so you don't run into debt; not the end of the world but it does suck. Continue to partake in the wars of your faction, gaining fame and fortune, and more fiefs. Use this time to bolster your war chest and war capabilities, you want to get to a point where even if you lose a big battle you still have plenty of troops and cash that you can recover quickly.

5. This is the hard part; at some point you will feel ready to begin your own kingdom. What you need to do is conquer a castle or town by leading a siege yourself, but the king attempts to award it to another vassal. (tip: if he offers it to you, decline it and when he awards it to another you still get the option to rebel). You will get asked to accept his decision or claim it as your own and start your own kingdom. Doing so takes that fief and any others you own and turns them into your very own faction. But do beware, this will put you at war with the faction you just left.

6. Assuming you can hold your fief in time for peace; begin to make your rounds talking to other lords that are your friends. Get a feel for their status in their faction. You will have the option to try and persuade them to join you. This depends on a few factors: relations with you, relations with their king, what you offer them (lands, friendship, booty  )

7. As you amass other lords it would serve you well to keep your friends close by rewarding them with fiefs. Even ones you already own since it will improve their armies over time and keep them happy. Bigger fiefs to better friends, lowly villages to guys you don't care for but want to stick around. (tip: you can give friends villages to start if that's all you have, but at some point you want to reward your closest friends with the best fiefs.)

From their it's simply a game of ebb and flow, war and peace, politics and persuasion. Conquer lands, award to vassals and keep pushing.

You'll see that awarding some lords will annoy others, and some lords just have personalities that don't fit. It will take a while to conquer the world and while war can be fun you have to be careful about who you pick fights with and when. Being known as an honorable king will be useful down the road when brokering peace or persuading lords.

Hope that helps

Cheezeninja 说:

There are ways to keep lords from renouncing...

Litdum came up with a clever way to stop renouncing of lords, I suggest you take a look at the module development section of the forum and learn how the module system can help you.

I didnt like seeing lord names such as Boyar Mundhalir, Emir Klargus etc. They would change their faction after few days the game started so I had discoverd this line to solve that and it did:
module_simple_triggers.py:

        (try_begin),
          (this_or_next|eq, ":faction", "$players_kingdom"),
        (eq, ":faction", "fac_player_supporters_faction"),
        (val_add, ":num_centers", 1),
        (try_end),
       
        (call_script, "script_troop_get_relation_with_troop", ":troop_no", ":faction_leader"),
          (this_or_next|le, reg0, -121), #was -50
        (eq, ":num_centers", 0), #if there is no walled centers that faction has defection happens 100%.

        (call_script, "script_cf_troop_can_intrigue", ":troop_no", 0), #Should include battle, prisoner, in a castle with others
            (store_random_in_range, ":who_moves_first", 0, 2),

-121 in the red line was -50. it means when the relationship between the lord and the vassal became -50 the lord will be exiled and join another faction. I ve changed it to -121(an impossible vaule for relations. the lowest one is -100 as you know) so the lords cannot change their faction unless you persuade them to join your faction or their own faction compeletly defeated.
 

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Holy lord that is a game changer....

I assume if I set it to something like -80 lords will still defect or be banished but at a much less frequent rate?