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I'm starting to think that at this rate, when 1.2 goes to live we will be getting Beta 1.3 at the same time.

Dodgy 说:

The main issue of this game in my opinion is still the AI, both the campaign and the Lord's. That's just the bare minimum to make the game play in a logical way, sadly the end game with no features aside from conquering one fief after another would still remain boring unless they add content, but at least it would be over sooner once one of the factions have significantly outgrown the rest, and be more challenging until you reach that point.

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I feel the same, and in my opinion the only ways to fix the late game is by either ending it faster or giving the player milestones to end the game (which would also end it faster). While I would like something like a late game invasion, it would only prolong the process of infinite wars & sieges.

One example for a milestone is to destroy/reunite the empire, which is the base campaign goal, another would be controlling the "totally-not-mediterranean-sea" with 1 faction, another would be to control the "northern realms", another would be to amass 10 million denars, etc.. Players can already set milestones by themselves, there only needs to be confirmations of their completion (& maybe special rewards such as unique crowns and/or sword, armor, etc.)

@Dejan @Duh_TaleWorlds Is the patch seeming likely to be released to live today - tomorrow? If not, which issues are remaining to be resolved until the patch is moved to live?

That's a bug that's fixed in 1.2. Whenever this bug happens, you should quit the siege and re-join it to fix it.

Wulfric 说:

That's the corporate way of saying no.

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You're right that it's the corporate way of saying no, but it doesn't mean that they never will do it, just that they haven't planned to at the point. I would love if SaS/Freelancer was implemented to the base game though, but it's unlikely of them adding it if I'm being honest.

Yeah, by snowballing I mean steamrolling the map. You really can't steamroll the map with 5 clans, you become relatively stable. If a faction controls 2/3 of the map (and if the overwhelming majority of the remaining 1/3rd is not owned by 1 faction), the lords should straight up be able to take over the map on their own within 2-3 in game years.

I've heard that you get trade xp from workshops but haven't tested it myself. The workshop changes are nice (better than warband in terms of interactivity) but workshops themselves suck at profitability due to their increased purchasing price added a few patches back & the deflation of the game economy until day 200-ish where they become somewhat profitable (but less needed).

Combat AI actually feels really different, though you may or may not like them being better at blocking (they're not as good as RBM but there's also no posture system either). Many people used to hate it until TW tweaked it a bit in 1.2.4. I do like these AI changes for field battles; Ranged units and Skirmishers actually skirmish when infantry gets close to them, shield wall formation feels like a good defensive formation, cavalry is much better at fighting other mounted troops, etc. Formation targeting also makes the battles a bit more tactical (and lets the player actually meaningfully command units for siege defences). Also, now you can build siege engines in siege defences.

The late game grind is a bit more bearable now that factions actually die out, but I imagine a full conquest is still painful and boring. I don't have the patience to try to conquer the map again until significant changes to the late game which enables the player faction to snowball after they get strong enough.

Weather feels very atmospheric and actually affects combat, so I really like it overall (and I also would like to see sand/dust storms added).

There's been a few changes to smithing, but I haven't tested it out myself. From what I've seen though, it makes the weapon difficulty and smithing skill actually matter, so if you try to smith a sword with 100 difficulty when you have 50 skill, you will get a negative modifier, but smithing the same thing with 125 will give you a positive modifier (might be RNG i dunno), and from what I know if you smith it with 150 or 200 skill you will get an even better modifier than you would with 125 skill.

I think that you should try it now, as it's relatively stable, and when the patch goes live play with the Old Realms total conversion mod who also recently got a massive update.

Honestly the ranged AI in 1.2 is generally very good in my limited experience, but archers/crossbowmen can occasionally have terrible aim for some reason. I've noticed it being bad mostly during tournaments, but didn't think much of it at the time, maybe the units had low skill. Ranged AI in general feels better at longer ranges and better at shooting moving targets.

What feels worse in 1.2 is melee cavalry attacks' accuracy against foot troops. I think it improved a bit in 1.2.4, but I wish to see it be made better.

black_bulldog 说:

Incorrect it was 81% - 4% per skill point 4x14=56% and add the 25% base. It was powerful and why most experienced players would try to max it out but it's not a guarantee of surfival.

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Ah okay, thanks for informing me, I did know about the 4 n + 25, I don't know where I pulled 94% from.

hoboistice 说:

Last time I played Bannerlord you could get money from your unit's upkeep by having high enough quartermaster and relevant perks, or infinite food from quartermaster.
You can definitely get a lot more overpowered in Bannerlord

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They patched units paying you out from the game a while ago (though maybe it still works with mercs?), but with specific perks and combos you can be more OP in bannerlord. You can beat every army with recruits by stacking all perks that give HP to your units & a captain who increases skills & movement + a good banner.

Nogand 说:

On their own, weapon proficiencies in Warband are about as impactful as Bannerlord, but in Warband they stack multiplicatively with the power skills so that together a warrior companion or high-tier troop is quite valuable. In Bannerlord this secondary multiplier doesn't exist, so your companions are mainly for captain skills, and you level troops for their gear.

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That is true, I always forget that power strike & similar skills are compounding. Though some things Bannerlord has better are perks giving additional effects such as shield penetration for javelins and smithing weapons for optimal AI use. Grinding companions is a very lengthy process in BL not gonna lie, but they can become so OP thay you can take over towns with 10 of them.

Nogand 说:

As for party-buffing skills, Warband skills are more impactful as well, which makes sense because they had to be competitive with the smaller party sizes. 10 Surgery and Wound Treatment in Warband triples your healing rate and reduces your troop death rate to about 1/3rd of the base value, and 10 path-finding and spotting lets you catch parties half your size, and see them at twice the didistance.

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I fully agree that party skills were stronger in WB (except for some combos like free recruitment of bandits & upgrading them to noble troops), but I mostly prefer how they are in BL, because they were too OP. You could have something like a 94% survival rate with 14 surgery and you could insta upgrade units with high training skill. As silly as it may sound, I prefer being able to upgrade units by discarding items, since there is a trade-off for doing so where the costs can quickly add-up over time.

Nogand 说:

The big hangup I have with vanilla Bannerlord is that there is very little character progression when it comes to personal combat skill. Even when your weapon skill is less than 30 tournaments are quite easy, the difference between an early-game and endgame character is what gear he wears, and how many troops and clan members he can call upon. It seems much more like a strategy game than the RPG progression system of Warband. RBM fixes this for the most part.. but it also crashes to desktop every 20 minutes (using Proton GE).

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When talking about weapon skills without perks, agreed. Otherwise I disagree. One thing I really haven't missed about Warband was that so much of its tournaments' difficulty relied on bull**** such as giving the enemy a 2H sword and you a dagger. Also, while weapon skill levels (no perks) don't affect that much in Bannerlord, it in my experience didn't affect me much in Viking Conquest either (I had a warrior build with 22 STR with 10 ironflesh, power strike & power throw, 8 weapon master & about 350 proficiency in 1h, 2h & throwing at the end of the story mode). The rhythm of a fight was always attack -> block -> attack ad nauseam. What made me feel strong in VC was the fully upgraded Orm's Scale (please bring equipment upgrading mechanic in towns to Bannerlord TW, I'm begging you). What scales really nicely in Bannerlord is athletics & riding.

Of course, since the scale is about 6,5x larger than Warband at max troop count, you need to kill 6,5x more troops just to be as viable, which is not really that feasible. I agree overall that CNG, SOC & INT builds are much stronger than warrior builds, so you as a fighter feel inconsequential most of the time.

It's a good game that is very replayable with some very noticeable flaws (e.g. the AI characters lacking personality, lack of meaningful diplomacy, bad campaign "story"). However, it's not a great or a profound game, and while greatness is achievable (and will happen if the game receives further development), the latter is not. It's similar to other sandbox experiences where you create your own value. Bannerlord is a McDonald's meal rather than a meal at a Michelin star restaurant, it's a marvel movie, not Schindler's list. If you approach the game this way, it will become better in your mind. The mods are what truly makes the game "great" and many great ones like the Old Realms are already available or will soon be. But no matter how heavily you mod it, the game you're playing always uses most of the systems of the base game.

In my mind, Bannerlord with 1.2 has faaar surpassed Warband, and has surpassed Viking Conquest, my formerly favourite entry to the franchise until I replayed it last week, now Bannerlord is by far my favourite. "Success" is a very intangible concept, but in my mind, the core gameplay of Bannerlord is very successful in providing fun to me despite its flaws, even if the novelty of M&B has passed. You need to remember that people who focus on the negatives are always the most vocal in a community.

saittam 说:

During order of battle or in the battle?

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Only in battle and only sometimes. Sieges start off with your troops in auto delegate no matter what so it never worked for me during OOB.

saittam 说:

Does not work at all i would say. One can press that icon until the fingers bleed. Nothing happens.

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It worked for me sometimes if I told all troops to hold position and then told a specific formation to use the engine in a siege assault. It never ever worked in a siege defence though.

Oh you mean the gears thingy. Yeah they've been in the game for years now, it's to assign specific units or formations to siege engines. The problem is that it doesn't work that often due to AI command being delegated by default at sieges.

saittam 说:

I belive we havent seen the end of siege improvments. First we have an unused siege icon. Also with engineering skill there is build cap that does not seem to be in use.

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Interesting, could you share this unused icon please?

Siege defences will be easy no matter what tbh, since TW programmed the AI to underestimate the player's party strength. If anything, this change will make siege defences more interactive, which is a good thing. Also you can straight up destroy enemy siege engines with an ambush, though I think the initial number of enemies should really be higher imo, as it's too easy to succeed with them now, but that's a separate subject.

This change will make siege offences harder by a teensy bit though, which is 9/10 of the siege battles players participate in. I pulled the number out of my ass but you get that players attack more often than defend. Players can't do keep battle defence either, so it's a balanced-ish trade-off imo.

Duh_TaleWorlds 说:

The long-term approach was touched on here

TLDR - No, 1.2.x will not be the last patch or content update.



Thanks for highlighting this, will raise it with the relevant people.

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Hey @Duh_TaleWorlds @Dejan , will you be unveiling TW's future plans for Bannerlord? It'll be a year since the release at October. Pretty much every feature in the future/release plans post has been implemented to the game except for claimants, replay editor & some unnamed changes to the influence system you've talked about a while ago (and also whatever "diplomacy decision making" entails, which may have already been implemented).

Do you intend to release any DLCs, only proceed with free updates, or do you plan to finish developing the game after 1.3 (& only doing bugfixes & performance updates, etc.)?

Also, if TW is planning on releasing a DLC (& v1.3) for the 1 year anniversary, please, for the love of all that is holy, let the community know at least 2 weeks beforehand.

From my relatively brief testing, I was pleasantly surprised by the competency of the AI in combat.

I feel like despite improvements, melee cavalry still needs to be more accurate with their melee attacks.

Infantry is in generally a good place and they improved over the AI from the previous patches, though pikemen are still very weak & quite useless imo (I also didn't really see any changes to their AI compared to 1.1). I think pikes should just be longer overall, like at 300-350 length. Skirmish infantry is much better in 1.2, but I think that they should just walk backwards while skirmishing rather than turning their back to the enemy and walk until they pick another javelin and face the enemy again.

Archers & Xbows are still good & they benefitted greatly from formation targeting.

Horse archers are OP as always, though their banner carrier still commits suicide. Maybe Archer & Horse Archer banner carrier AI should be tweaked or maybe the way they carry banners could be changed.