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oh god my sides lmao

TrashMan 说:

Who cares? You got romans and mongols and everything mixed into a single pot.
Vlandians look OK by me.

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i agree, i love that its a mix of stuff. the game doesn't need to be fixed to a ridged timeline or specific gear from that timeline to still fit in with the games universe

durbal 说:

31 body armor and more or less the equivalent stuff on the rest of them is passable for their type of unit. It's better or equivalent to that from other factions and with lighter weight.

Also, swords on cavalry are pretty good, especially in cav-vs-cav battles when they're stuck in. Better than spears for sure.

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uhh what, every other light cavalry unit in the game upgrade into heavy cav of some kind or the other, even Battania has better armor and upgrade potential which is sad. the only other one the doesn't upgrade into heavy cav is the Bucellarii which is the single common horse unit the Empire gets and has 70 armor......

Sturgia is the only one that starts and stays light cav with pathetic armor values for both its rider and its horse at teir 4 and 5.

as long as they have their javalins they are not bad, but the moment they blow all their ammo they are a very sub par unit, its also one of the only cavalry lines that starts and stays as a light cav. it need a bit of a rework imo the boom bust of the unit is just too much

Earth Dragon 说:

Have you read anything in this thread?

That's exactly what SHOULDN'T happen

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yeah an all infantry noble line will just make sturgia even weaker, they will just be a hard to get foot unit that will die without much impact on the battle

iv been playing around with the files for a bit now and brute forced a personal mod making the druzhinnik's line start on horses, keep its original bow stats while replacing the lance with bow/arrows. they just feel like they can actually get up and running before dieing horribly in the chaos of the infantry fight, and with the bow/arrow axe/shield combo they can be usefull against all of the neighboring enemy factions instead of just a few of them (im looking at you Khan)

panxo_dakilla 说:

Well wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Russian_army) says Druzhina would be the historically accurate noble troop. Also apparently they DID dismount for battle.



Huh

Edit: Citation needed probably

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your correct, i dont want to get rid of the druzhinna i want them to be more prevalent then they are, i was trying to say get rid of the Varyag melee aspect of it and make it mounted like the most of the noble cav units.


if you notice in the part of that article about heavy horse archers the Cataphract and Druzhinna are mentioned of making use of bows but neither of the units in game that are based on the real life examples don't use the same type of equipment to the same extents anyway. having the druzhinna focus on shield/axe +bow/arrow would let is work as a unit that could dismount and still make something happen if they need to go on foot for a particular situation

imagine trying to dismount and use a lance as a spear..... yikes lol

ElCrisp 说:

The Sturrgian noble unit the champion druzhinnik seems to me to lack a unique identity.
I feel we already have so many lance cavalry:

1. Imperial Cataphract - Two handed lance + Mace
2. Asarai Faris - Lance + Javlins give it a cool hybrid niche
3. Vlandian Banner Knight Top in class as classic lancer.

I really like the kievan rus aesthetic but the champion druzhinnik doesnt excite me to recruit as just a sub par version of the Banner Night, or if they were to buff them, I dont want the noble units to be simple reskins of one another as I think they provide a cool point of faction difference.

Here are possible changes that take my fancy:

• I think it could be cool if the champion druzhinnik didnt have a lance. Instead having the best one handed skill in game, and have excellent athletics, so he is still as much a menace if ever dehorsed.
• Move a weaker Cav unit back onto the main tree and have the Sturggian noble unit be some sort of infantry unit while still looking Kieven Rus
• Perhaps Heavy cav with a two handed axe + high athletics.

A sepperate but adjacent problem for this units identity I feel is the state of axes, I like axe use as a point of difference for this unit, but currently I dont understand the point of axes, they dont appear to have any thing they do better than either swords or maces and for different reasons appear to me just to be the inferior of either.

Anyway what do other people think? What does your sturgian noble look like?

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i completely agree that the identity of the noble cavs between all factions is getting blurred, they are all just lancers at this point, the faris is the most uunique one, valandia and the khan is perfect the way they are, but sturgia and the empire should be much more versatile cavalry, historically speaking both of them made use of mounted archery along with their heavy armor and powerful melee weapons.

i personally think the cataract should roll around with a bow/arrows lance and mace as they did historically, they dont really need a shield as they have the highest armor on both their horse and themselves in the game, this would let them be a versatile offensive heavy cav with lots of options to make use of in terms of tactics

Sturgia should be similar but based entirely on the Russian boyars which they are but this sudo hybrid melee infantry into cav bs needs to go to just cav, they should be equipped with bows/arrows shield& axe and be a anti-cav that focuses on drawing the enemy horse at them with arrows and baits them into ****ty terrain where they can lock their cav up and beat there skulls in with the aforementioned axe.

Sylvanaz 说:

Thank you, at least it is confirmed to spawn. Do you, by any chance, remember where did you find it? I suppose it's been Varnovapol?

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yes it was in varnovapol i found the helmet and the hauberk, cant remember where exactly i found the leather and iron one.

Sylvanaz 说:

So I just did what you told me and found out the following:

The items that are missing in my playthrough are:
-Leather and Iron Plate Armor
-Northern Coat of Plates
-Decorated Northern Hauberk
-Sturgian Fortified Armor (this is the only one that really seems to be unimplemented yet)
-Northern Lamellar over Mail
-Northern brass lamellar over mail
-Sturgian lord helmet

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i have managed to find these items in previous runthoughs
-Sturgian lord helmet
-Decorated Northern Hauberk
-Leather and Iron Plate Armor

but the other stuff you listed I have not found at all anywhere in sturgia

Wregghhh 说:

druzhinnik champions armor is khuzait culture armor.

The Stugian armor set feels really bland and unfinished.

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the only part of their armor set thats khuzait is the helmet, the shoulders and chest piece are sturgian

Nokturnel 说:

It's not just that their troops have bad stats/gear.

They also have bad AI.

For instance, the Sturgian Shock Troops, they carry a shield and a spear, but when you tell them to Shield wall, they'll unequip their shield as soon as an enemy is within like 30 meters of them and equip their spear as a 2handed weapon which allows them to get ripped to shreds by archers. In other words... they don't understand the concept of a shield wall

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thats because that spear they have is a war razor which is a 2 handed only polearm, its very deceptive. its a very good weapon but i personally want that unit to have a spear it can use in a shield wall like you mentioned. it should be a heavy anti cav unit in the shield wall

After looking into a few mods and finding out how easy it was to modify the base game unit loadout i dug around though the files and ended up doing a small personal mod to rework their units to test what might make a difference without making things to over the top, after playing around with a few things this is the conclusion iv come to for the most part

Recruit: one of the things i think is going is their units don't live past the heat of battle and recruits get mowed down and re-recruited faster then the villages can pump the poor bastards out, i think a faction who revolves around shield wall tactics should be able to implement their fresh recruits into that shield wall, even if its a basic shield. This has resulted in more units surviving but the recruit still dies quite easily.

Warrior: this unit only needs some simple changes, a upgrade to some basic leather armor so it can last a bit longer along with some constancy in the shield options it gets

Soldier: basically i think it needs more of the same upgrades as the warrior, up the armor further and give it a stronger shield so it can live and get a better chance to become the stronger units

Spearman: this unit is where the love needed to really start, this unit needs some decent armor changes and a heavy round shield to match the rest of the shield wall so they can keep protected better, not sure if it should have throwing weapons but it needs to be more relevant as a tier 4 units


before the beta the shock troop and the veteran warrior were some of the best units in the army but now they are even better in beta, the devs gave them a lot of love in the armor department and they can last a lot longer

Shock Troop: as ,mentioned above i think it all around good, i think it should get some throwing weapons and a stat increase to go along with a polearm that can be used with the shield, the war razor is an awesome weapon but i think it should go on a different unit il elaborate when i get to that unit

veteran warrior:pretty solid unit i think it should get an extra set of throwing weapons other then that they are awesome

Berserker/Ulfhednar: simply put i think they need to have their sets swapped between one another, i think the berserker should be the half naked lunatic with the axe ( as it was historically) and make the Uldhednar feel like an upgrade buy giving it lots of chain armor and fixing the skills to match what the unit before it was using. It needs to feel like and upgrade and the ulfhednar as it stands in the base game is a complete downgrade

Woodsman: this unit needs a shield and it needs some basic leather armor, same theory as the warrior it needs to survive to the next phase

Hunter: Same line of thinking with armor upgrades but the archer line needs to fill a secondary role in the army, simply put they have the worst arches in the game and are surrounded by factions with vastly better range or firepower then they do. With the warrior race theme in mind and the fact that their going to be pretty close to your shield wall to pepper units on the approach i think this unit needs to get skill in polearms instead of 1H weapons and should be equipped with a basic spear

Archer: currently this unit gets better armor then the one it upgrades into, i believe it should be swapped so this one gets the lite lamellar armor and also continues with the polearm theme as i mentioned before to act as a secondary role in the army, it could also probably use an upgrade in the arrow type

Veteran Bowman: with the armor swap in mind this unit would have chainmail and would be better at taking damage, it needs bodkin arrows to be able to make the shorter range damage more relevant. I think the tier 5 unit should get a strong polearm, in my test mod i decided to do some mad science and give these guys the WarRazor that the shock troop used to have and i like the potential but it might need to be just a basic spear not sure tho but having them relevant in melee due to how close they are make them feel like a natural part of how the sturgian army should work

Brigand: Could use some better armor to get to the point where its on a horse and more useful at its potential role

Hardened brigand: there is a small stat mess up that can needs fixing other then that this unit is just a light cav that likes javs seems alright just need better AI

Horse raider: there nothing that feels out of place, it's a light cav that has a love for javelins sounds good on paper. the biggest problem with these units is the AI doesn't know how to skirmish with them or aim their javelins at things properly, once that changes I think these units will be alright.

Sturgian warrior son: same problem as other units not well enough equipped to survive or be effective, sense this is the nobility line and the son of a Boyar i think it safe to say it should be better equipped than your average recruit

Varyag: this is a nice jump in gear and stats, becomes a solid unit

Varyag Veteran: i think this unit should look more like the Druzhinnik in terms of its load out just without the horse to show the progression that the unit is going through on its way to the Boyar Cavalry

Druzhinnik/Champ: this is the unit that literally made me do this entire writeup/experiment, its Stats are AWESOME for a Boyar cav Unit, and Sturgia is much more of a Rusviking inspired faction then a purely norse based one, which pretty much tells me these guys just got overlooked on getting the bows they need to be the unit that their namesake is inspired after, they even get them as load out options in MP.

Basically the unit just needs a bow and some good arrows to go along with its shield and one handed weapons so it can act as an anti cav Unit. harass the enemy cav into rushing at you where you can horse lock them up making their lances useless and your superior one handed skill can win you the fight in close combat with them.

its weird there normal units are rather mediocre untill they hit tiers 4/5/6 but the Varyag units have really good stats for what they start as but even with multiple powerful notables under my control none of them seem to pump out the warrior son units very often

the Sturgians for sure have some weird stuff going on, one of the things that is really triggering me is the warrior son into Druzhinik unit line. it starts to get really confused stat wise once it hits the veteran Varyag unit and then gets super weird by the time it is a Druzhinik, but what really throws me off is the Druzhinik in MP gets a bow+ arrow & shield + axe as options along with the polearm. so the stats kind of make sense from the perspective of MP but i feel like the SP version should replace its spear with a bow + arrows then it would be a unique heavy cav from the notable unit line that can harass until it needs to charge into the fight where the rider and his horse are armored up enough to stay in the fight using the shield/1h weapon