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Hi GDwitt,

I think AelleCyning read a post of mine from ages ago and replied, I dunno if you have admin rights maybe all posts about historical accuracy etc could be moved to a separate thread?

I had responded to a few posts after you introduced the flail to the game.

I have had a playthrough of some of the VC storyline quests as well which has given me some ideas for quests...

Ill PM you

AelleCyning 说:

Dismissing everything from this period as lies or myths was part of the "we hate the Migration Period" Historian club. Now that that's calmed down, most people agree Hengest and Horsa, Ælle and Cerdic and even the family tree Woden (not the God) existed.

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Hi AelleCyning!

I haven't posted on this board for a few months but good to see it is still going strong and Gdwitt and others are working on the mod.

I was not dismissing everything about the characters you mention, or the migration period per se, just pointing out that there are very few of the things we think we know about the period can be seen as unassailable facts.

Many traditional narratives and assumptions based upon straight reading of scarce sources like Bede or Gildas, whose motivations were often far from what we see as the roles of a Historian today. I think part of the draw of the period is its uncertainty, and though archeology has made many advances, as has textual analysis and critique of historical sources, to a certain extent you have to pick and choose the argument you find most appealing and persuasive.

My thoughts on the migration period, and I am by no means a specialist, I would restrict to the British Isles (a culturally and politically loaded expression!) as the area I have followed the academic experts most thoroughly; I would tend to believe in a limited, small to medium anglo-saxon migration in most of eastern England and Scotland in the 4th - 7th centuries, except in certain areas such as East Anglia, where a more widespread migration probably occurred, and this often was a process of elite substitution and acculturation.

I checked out your project and would be interested in offering any help I can, though I need to do some work here for Gdwitt as well! I will post in your thread after I have read through it.

Hi Kulin,

I have read a few things in the guides about character creation.

If you are playing at normal or higher, particularly full realism difficulty the mod is hard!

I seem to remember it being mentioned that playing as a female character is extra hard - it really is a mans world in the dark ages... If you choose a non elite social background it is also hard.

The general consensus is that you select a Noble/Retainer background for a 'standard' heroic/fighter character. This will give you a mix of combat skills and some status and social skills like leadership and persuasion particularly as a noble. Playing as a woman, especially a commoner, is considered a bit 'Hard Mode!'

Gdwitt would be the expert on how much this is retained in this version of Brytenwalda, but the guides are here: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,155372.0.html

I always find with this background, one or two fetch and carry missions for the village elder gives me the rep and a few coins to get the first troops recruited. Also, after you kill the bandit at the beginning the merchant gives you some stuff you can sell for a bit of money.

Good luck!

As long as hes gone tomorrow!

Also, whats with all this Clarkson sh*te on everyones signatures?

I cant stand the guy...

Historical Accuracy in this time period is highly contentious to say the least.

Relatively little is known for certain about the material culture of the period in most parts of the British isles for most of the cultures postulated.

If you follow the archeological and historical academic literature you will find that even the traditionally defined historic narratives and ethnic groups of the supposed Anglo-Saxon conquest are in doubt, many of the early dynasties and migration and settlement tales of these cultures are seen now as largely mythically derived, and later political and dynastic expediency has motivated the refashioning of History. Even Academia has been involved in discourse which is often motivated as much by the 19th - early 20th  century ideals of racial superiority and purity, and modern cultural sentiments of English ascendancy or Celtic nationalisms, and the evidence in academia has been manipulated and misused over the years.

So this game can only be a subjective attempt to portray a subjective view of what might have been fairly historically accurate - If we say we want accuracy. The most unrealistic aspect of the game is the unlimited cash based market economy. The cash economy collapsed in the mid 5th century when the flow of coins from roman mints to pay soldiers and officials had ended, and the debased currency often made by dodgy empoerors was deemed worthless. Its understandable, because wouldnt it be a pain swapping all your loot for food, hides, cattle etc at every village and even in towns quite a lot of the time - you can be damn sure nobody was forking out piles of silver coin for assorted boots, slings, bent spears, cracked shields and other trash loot in the dark ages!

In terms of weaponry, there is a signal problem in that iron does not survive well over such a long time for a number of reasons - It rusts, and it is easily reused, which would have been especially important in an era of economic decline and relative material poverty.

Chain mail could have been as common as in the game, epic poetry from the period implies large numbers of armored warriors in the elite, but some see this as poetic license.  Spears were certainly the most common weapon, archers were less common on the battlefield than later periods, but there were large numbers of throwing weapons including the francisca axe amongst some groups (not necessarily just franks!) including late romans and sub roman britains in the period immediately after the end of Roman rule.

Much of what is seen as 'Germanic' style equipment is in fact evolved from kit which is late roman in inspiration - the styles of helmet, buckles and personal adornments favoured by the 'germani' elite were largely direct copies of or inspired through contact with the late roman army, and so the late roman armies artistic styles and those of the near germanic tribes who interacted with them as both raiders and recruits, mercenaries or foderati became similar.

Anyway Ive ranted on enough but on the flail I will say that from what I have seen the Flail was never a particularly common in any time period, it is either a specialist custom made weapon, or, in some cases, was an agricultural tool adapted for use as a weapon - and this is in common with halberds and bill hooks, both of which were simp0ler and more practical weapons than the giant two handed threshing flails used by peasants. These two handed flails are attested in 16th C german fight manuals, they were used by some peasant rebels and low class religious radicals during the 16th C. Of course, we dont have many european fight manuals or weapon training manuals, I think none before the 15thC. 

I think it is unlikely they were used in the 6th - 7th C in Britain but if they were they would have been rare.

However, from a game point of view it was a good piece of work to make them possible, and they are relatively rare. Id certainly want  them in a medieval set mod just for ****s and giggles.

I have never fought any enemy carrying a flail, and they are a rare occurrence in shops, I think only the specialist lordly armour vendors and the mystic merchant has them in this version, so if you dont like them, just dont buy them! 

Hi, I recently took up the game for this mod and Brytenwalda.

There are a few servers with activity but most of the population seems to be on native or Napoleonic stuff at the moment.

Give me a PM and we can meet up on one of those servers

I have a bug!

After downloading the latest update my herd of cows started running away from me like wild animals, but if I leave them alone they do follow again eventually.

Hows tricks Gdwitt?

Im doing the Anierin, Roman and Bishop Quests atm so ill let you know if any are broken.

Hi Gdwitt,

Great job on the stuttering!

I could do with the savegame compatible update if you get round to it. I am not sure what you have fixed since the alpha, I have gone through some quests ok, but have had trouble with some of the more difficult quests mainly as I had a new game start and was getting the crap kicked out of me by various slaver chiefs, bandit leaders and others with my newby party and gear!

I am going to tweak the difficulty to easy and try to go through all the quest chains.

So Pictish war paint, Hadrians Wall, Holy Relic, and I will try to get the weapon quests, Gae Bolga, Beowulf Sword, any others?

Not seen any Surrender or Fight dialogues yet.

Great News!

If you want some testing done I am happy to give it a go, any features in particular you would like me to look at?

My Direct x problem is sorted, if this new update is save game compatible I can also sort out my undead faction problem!

Weird,

Not sure if it was just the updates to Direct x requiring a restart to kick in, but the problem disappeared.

I turned my PC back on yesterday evening and it was all good, either version of Direct x worked fine.

That sounds great gwitt,

I am trying to sort out a Direct x issue I have had which is causing the game to crash from the launcher, I posted in the crashes thread for suggestions.

Hmm,

Mow I have an error as soon as I try to start from the launcher, I get the taleworlds screen then before the Brytenwalda loading screen I get the following error message popup:

Generic application error. Enable debug output for detailed information.

Switching to reference rasterizer, a software device that implements the entire Direct3D feature set, but runs very slowly.


I then get black screen (windowed, without it set in settings) and it crashes to desktop.

This happens with BW, native, and Napoleonic, I also tried With Fire and Sword and original M&B and they all crashed - I got them all in a package from Steam a few years back.

Initially, there was a pop up before the crash after the first one saying something about download DirectX SDK.

I did this, there was no noticable change except the second pop up stopped.

I dont know if it may be related, but I had a steam update install this morning, before this I had no problems with playing the game.

It seems to be a DirectX issue of some sort, Should I download Direct X 9 End time run user? I have been using DirectX 7 from the launcher as the performance is much better than DirectX 9, so not sure if this will make a difference.

Thanks for any suggestions or advice, I have tried to reduce all graphics settings and set single core in the launcher already and none of this has helped.

I have run into a problem I have seen mentioned before.

I am a Lord for Mercia, we are at war with both East Engle and Gewissae, both big factions who were squeezing us. Eventually we lost all our castles and towns except Oxenforda, which was getting besieged by the Gewissae, I didnt have enough men to get through so I went to capture a small castle further away. I took the castle, and the next day Oxenforda fell.

Penda has dissappeared. I have been unable to find him, spent two months on the run, been elected marshall, lost the first castle and captured another one, which has also been lost. The other lords I have seen, but Penda is like a ghost, no one knows where he is either other lords or travellers etc.

If I gather the other Lords and attack a castle or town I assume the same thing will happen again, I will have it for a few days then the East Engle or Gewissae lords will turn up with their stacks of doom and take it, I can either defend and inflict a grievous slaughter before losing, or run and protect my warband and wealth.

After two months of hit and run in Northern Britannia basically attacking their caravans I have made lots of money, but I would like to be able to join a new faction, go mercenary, or try for my own kingdom soon and I have no way to renounce my allegiance to Penda.

I am assuming that a faction should be destroyed after a certain time without any fiefs? This is some sort of bug I assume. The cheat menu option always crashes on launch for me so I have no idea how to get round this, and I have built up a lot of money, men and gear in the two game months since the faction was basically destroyed so I dont really want to lose all that progress.

Any ideas? 

Well I am up for it.

I will PM you with some ideas soon.

Hi gdwitt,

I am not a coder but I have some html experience from looking after some forums. I am also a good writer and would like to help with rewriting the dialogue for npc interactions, because these often seem broken or poorly written, ie wrong gender - wives always refer to themselves as husbands etc.

If these can be rewritten without major coding I would happily do this - I appreciate that noone has unlimited time to wade through hundreds of dialogue scripts to correct them especially when they are sorting out gameplay issues and bugs.

I also have a good knowledge of the period and could add some fluff - like when you pay the bards to sing for your men have a selection of real contemporary epic poetry to choose from, this can also be faction specific as well.

There are plenty of things that might be done with bards and poetry to get bonuses to right to rule, improve relations with nobles, kings or factions, and increase or decrease morale etc, but I will try to walk before I can run and offer ideas and suggestions for other things if and when there is a time to implement any changes. 

Let me know if any of this sounds useful and I am more than happy to do what I can to help.

Hi,

Thanks it was really not too difficult to sort out.

Currently building my reputation and gearing up my small warband as a mercenary for Pengwern!

Even this more forgiving mod is still pretty tough - I spent several weeks nursing a broken arm, with my only kill so far the robber in the first settlement I seem to spend most battles charging past my warriors, trying to take out a few archers on horseback and getting bludgeoned unconscious within a few minutes...

Got 65 in my party including 8 companions, about 5000 cash and my first set of decent armour, probably time to invest in some land or a business.

The mod is great.

I did sit outside a settlement for about a week waiting for the cantabrian leader to show up for our arranged fight, and the no show resulted in a failed quest and two companions left as they felt dishonored by this.

This has been discussed before and its no biggie. I wonder, can you lose and then regain companions? I know some are more difficult to keep happy and there are different combos of compatible and incompatible ones, but I wouldnt want to one day run out all together!

My only gripe is that horrible strobing when the scripts run - it needs an epilepsy warning!

Thanks to everyone involved for a great gaming experience.

Thanks mallowpuff,

Just edited my posat as I downloaded the game via Steam.

How do I add mods to the steam version?

Thanks,

Urien

Hi gdwitt,

Firstly I would like to express my appreciation to you, Adorno, Idlib and everyone else who have worked on this fantastic Mod. The depth and immersion are great, and clearly an awful lot of work has gone into many aspects of the game world, to the extent that it is a game in its own right.

I basically downloaded Mount and Blade from steam just to play the mod, so after a few days messing around with the native version learning the ropes I would like to take the plunge and install the mod.

I am just wondering which files I need for the latest version, the page has four different files, I am not sure from what I have read here which I need to download first and how many of the others are recommended, except that the 74characters one seems to be an optional (no death cheat?) feature you have put in for some people to use - if it is a realism breaker I wouldnt want to use it.

Sorry if this should be obvious from this thread, and I know you are probably working on another version so If you are going to update this soon just tell me to wait for the new version!

Many thanks,

Urien