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Rainbow Dash 说:

Im pretty sure this is just groundwork being laid for Bannerlord and Taleworlds really is just going to half ass the enforcement policy here to test some waters. Im sure you will be fine.

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If they want to put a policy like this in place then we can't sit here and rely on them "half ass" enforcing anything - there are companies like ours that make a considerable part of our living from providing services to their customers. If there are going to be regulations imposed on us (especially ones that cut into our profit margins or reduce the quality of our services, as with the policy on selling scripts) then we need to be able to have regular contact with them via a proper channel of communication.

A cleaner policy is to simply set up your IPs with reverse DNS that returns to your website. TaleWorlds can then easily tell who the host is and go through the usual abuse / contact channels. That's what we've already implemented at any rate.

Alright, one further question. Will this mean that the sale of scripts completely independently of the server hosting will no longer be allowed?

I'm trying to figure out now how we can continue to provide the service to our customers without outright losing money on each individual service that makes use of the scripts, or increasing prices across the board (impacting customers that have no interest in the scripts).

If independent script sales are no longer a possibility, then this will obviously impact our script provider as well.

•  Lease servers which include script-sets (such as administration tools) or modules, custom maps and other modifications, providing that your prices are consistent across servers (with and without game related content) and you have the explicit permission of the content creator to use their creation.

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Just want to get some clarification on this.

At the moment, we lease scripts for Persistent World at a fixed rate. The rate covers the cost of hosting the script backend and database and the licensing cost that we pay to King Solutions, our script set provider.

By my reading of this, we will no longer be able to charge the license and hosting fee, and must provide them included in the package if we provide them at all.

Is my reading correct?

Captain Connner 说:

Due to popular demand, we are upgrading our node to the following specifications:

CPU: E3-1270v3 @ 3.5 Ghz
RAM: 32 GB DDR3 ECC @ 1600 Mhz
Disk: 2x 2 TB HDD + 240 GB SSD
Bandwidth: 1 Gbps

In other news, we are working hard on the next update of our control panel. This update will implement Windows server support and bring a range of improvements across the board - including a in-panel config editor.

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This is the Chicago node, for clarity.

Namakan 说:

Sorry, but from an outside perspective, it still looks like you had those old scripts you weren't allowed to use anymore still on your servers, which you still haven't explained.

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What gives this impression? If you're referring to the video, it claims to have gotten the files from our servers, but never shows anything to do with our servers - just a folder named "OASIS". It evens says in the video that it's from last summer, when the files would have been very different. We don't even store the scripts we install on any of our production servers, since we manually install the scripts every time.

We have a contract with Gedizz that states we use his scripts. We pay him for every customer that signs up for or renews a server with scripts, because the scripts we use are the ones he provides for us. And unless someone can provide actual proof instead of loose conjecture like the video there's no reason to believe we don't. It's clearly slander by people who have a personal grudge with us for whatever reason, and that's the least credible source of information there will ever be.

Right, so just to head this off since I contacted several moderators and was basically told to let it fly over our heads:

We're not going to be replying to or acknowledging slanderous claims against us anymore. In other words, back up what you're saying with fact or don't say it. It's quite frankly a waste of our time to keep replying to unfounded claims, and wasting our time is a disservice to our customers. We'll spend the time on improving our services instead.

Ramaraunt 说:

I give these guys 0 stars. Look at their thread in the PW sub forum.

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,342724.180.html

They are selling other people's scripts illegally. I also have experience with helping server owners who were given services by these people, which didn't work. And they weren't willing to offer a refund, saying it was their fault.

Heck, I once bought a mine-craft server from them, and it was terrible. Couldn't even start it, and they said it was "my fault".

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Once again, either provide proof that we sell these scripts or stop slandering us. Your statements are straight up illegal if they're not founded in fact.

We don't tell customers that a problem is their fault. If there is an error in configuration, we make the customer aware of this and in most cases can resolve it ourselves. We regret your experience with us and would love to hear details so that we can improve in future, but if all you're going to do is use it in the form of vague slander and bashing on a forum then it's entirely useless to us and to everyone else.

I'm almost tempted to lock the thread until the Moderators of the forum have become involved so that they can once and for all quell the slanderous claims of us using scripts that aren't ours. However, we would hate to inconvenience people with legitimate questions or complaints by doing so.

Ramaraunt 说:

Turns out his "made from scratch" control panel is actually a free one...

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Prove it. Seriously, I'd like to see it.
It's a filly custom panel built on a Twitter Bootstrap with a base theme, we've been through this before. The entire backend is done from scratch.

At this point you've descended to straight up slander with no proof, and it needs to stop.

This thread has been updated to be accurate to current information. As always, the most up to date information is on our website (https://oasis-hosting.net)

domipoppe 说:

Right now it looks like, the customers have to pay 15€ for the setup AND 3,99€ monthly for the web service, it is really unclear from the tooltips view.

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The tooltip has been updated to be clearer.

Apologies, that's a miscommunication. What's contained in the tooltip has been updated to be more clear.

You're ignoring years of legal precedent. We're not charging for the scripts, we are charging for separate optional services, a practice that has been considered both legal and commonplace in other games and industries for years. We've already been contacted by an admin and explained the situation and legalities of it to them. We'll see what the response is and respect the decision.

To say that a hosting company cannot charge for the web space to host it is completely without any basis in law, practical use or reality. You're basically telling the host that they have to lose money to host your scripts in an industry where the margins are low as hell as it is. You're also saying that they have to provide their expertise free of charge when setting up an additional service on top of the base, which has never and will never be a standard in hosting or any other industry except where the host chooses for it to be so as a promotional offer.

If these are genuinely the terms on the program for everyone and not just for Conner (who is undeniably disliked by everyone who's posting in this thread), it would be better to make it say "don't bother touching them if you're a host" instead. Those terms aren't viable for any business to think about going near.


For reference, the information provided on our website in the information tooltip:


As I've said above, we will respect the decision of the taleworlds admins on this. And once again, I'd urge everyone to get over the use of taleworlds and contact us directly if you want to contact us in an official capacity.

Jordan_The_Noble 说:

Does the customer have to pay this setup fee in order to get access to the scripts you guys have before he can do what he likes with them, or can he request them at any time from you, free of charge? (assuming they have an active service with you). Also, does that setup fee then have to be repayed every 4 months? as if so, that's a purchase not a setup fee.

If it is the first, then that is in violation of the terms set out on the thread setup by Gishank: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,357520.0.html?PHPSESSID=70n4dq1pei5eq6ve67s1ijtbn0

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To address this: the customers have to pay the setup fee once (and once only) if they want us to install and configure the scripts for them. If they want to do so themselves, we provide them the links to the scripts and they're more than welcome to set it up themselves.
Similarly, if they want to host the scripts on our own web servers, they can do so at the usual charge for web hosting (which we don't offer as a standalone at present). If they wish to host them remotely on their own hosting, even if we are the ones doing the setup, they are more than welcome. We set the scripts up on whatever web server the customer chooses.

We charge for services rendered by us, not for the scripts themselves. We're very aware of the fact that it would be illegal and immoral to charge for the scripts, and we have been very careful not to do so.

So TL;DR we used a bootstrap theme. We did, it's there. We made modifications where we needed. The visuals of the panel are mostly that theme. Ok, cool.

Literally everything else (the other 45k odd lines of code) is built custom by us to the purpose. From scratch. The visuals are literally the tiniest part of the control panel.

So I'll say it again for the people in the back. We used a theme. We built the rest from scratch. Anyone who'll contest that we can't say "built from scratch" because a base template was used to save time over 100% custom is just arguing semantics at this point and we /really/ don't have time for that.

@Jordan, I can't speak for what Jesse has said to you. I won't try. If you feel that this is a betrayal of your trust, by all means feel that way.

TommyBristol 说:

althalus311 说:

21:9 monitors hadn't been a consideration, thanks for the advice. I'll fix that up as soon as possible.

And yes, we're using elements of AdminLTE for our panel. We chose the boxed layout because it fits our layouts better - the amount of empty space when using full width is god awful. However, trying to imply that the front end is any large amount of the work in a control panel like this ("It doesn't take much to copy and paste from their documentation and then hook it up to your servers") is kind of hilarious. The user interface makes up roughly 1/100th of the code in our control panel, and even that has significant modifications to the base AdminLTE theme.

Again, thanks for your input.

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I'm glad to see that my fix worked for you.

You may also want to fix the broken link in your footer as it will likely affect your SEO / ranking. Plus, I somehow went onto your WordPress control panel through the link and could mess with stuff I probably shouldn't have been able to.

I don't get your point on the boxed layout to be honest, it seems a bit contradictory considering the blocked layout gives you huge ugly bars on the side of the screen. Why not simply make things in the panel scale better? I often use a, highly modified, version of AdminLTE I designed for project of mine and things generally scale very well (and easily) to fill the space in the fix / standard layout (both on 16:9 / 21:9). It would also make some of the tables you showcase in screenshots be easier to read (providing you haven't limited their size). Though, if that's what you are into / really think is right then fine (though, may the 21:9 / large monitor gods curse you).

I understand that a lot of work is required to hook up functionality of a website to a server, however you use the term "ground up", which does not really meet it's proper definition.

Anyway, I'll leave you be now before I make you look less professional on your "advertisement" topic.

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We're happy with the boxed layout. Our analytics show that 97% of the traffic on our site is at 1080p or lower, and that trials we've had with full width don't display as well on those lower resolution monitors. Our priority is the functionality over the aesthetic, but if it comes to a point in the future where we can redesign to better suit those with larger monitors we will. Thanks again for your input.

TommyBristol 说:

The discussion on this thread is rather funny. It seems Connor, yet again, has his hands sticky with using content he doesn't necessarily have the rights to use in the way he's using it. I thought you maybe would have learnt by now.

Anyway, I'm not here to complaint. Some constructive feedback:

• You may want to fix your home page for 21:9 monitors, it's not very professional looking, which might turn people away (https://gyazo.com/7487a30d265ee68df71db6a73e6fbef2). I gather you're using bootstrap for the page, so you probably want to put each row of points in a <div class="row"></div>, which should fix it.
• Nice use / choice to use AdminLTE, it's a pretty solid and easy to edit for being a free admin panel, by AlmsaeedStudio. Though, I would hardly advertise that you built your panel from "ground up" as most of the good features in the panel that make it nice to use are not actually made by you. It doesn't take much to copy and paste from their documentation and then hook it up to your servers. One question, why are you using the boxed layout in it? Surely the fix or standard layout would work much better as it would make more use of your costumer's monitor(s).

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21:9 monitors hadn't been a consideration, thanks for the advice. I'll fix that up as soon as possible.

And yes, we're using elements of AdminLTE for our panel. We chose the boxed layout because it fits our layouts better - the amount of empty space when using full width is god awful. However, trying to imply that the front end is any large amount of the work in a control panel like this ("It doesn't take much to copy and paste from their documentation and then hook it up to your servers") is kind of hilarious. The user interface makes up roughly 1/100th of the code in our control panel, and even that has significant modifications to the base AdminLTE theme.

Again, thanks for your input.

I'd also like to point out for everyone in this thread that it is a long established legal fact that charging to set up a product does not constitute profiting from it. It is charging for your time and expertise in setting it up, as a service rendered separate from the product itself.

As regards referring to them as open source, it's my mistake. Many of the elements contained within the thread are identical to those of true open source licenses, which may have led to the confusion.

TL;DR we're not actually violating anything in the terms of what you've laid out. If you'd like to discuss the use of these scripts with us in a more official capacity, we are (again) always more than willing to speak to customers or anyone with any concerns via our official channels of communication.

The scripts are open source. The stipulation to their use is that the user is credited (he is, none of the credits in the code have been removed and he is credited in the information about the scripts on the website) and that no profit is made from their sale. We allow our users to have others install the scripts or to install them themselves, and the same is true of the hosting. We offer solutions to install and host the scripts for our customers should they choose to make use of these solutions, but we do not charge for the scripts themselves. The previous monthly script charge we had has been completely abolished. None of the terms of the open source scripts are violated. Can you explain then why we shouldn't be doing this?

domipoppe 说:

The Persistent World scripts which Oasis Hosting is offering are no longer provided/supported by me. Since ages not anymore.
They are an old set which has bugs and is broken. It has money glitch issues, ban issues, and name tag issues.

For example, if you put [] those brackets in your name and you get banned, you still can join back easily.
For example, if you deposit money and drop a money bag shortly before, you dupe money.
And other glitches...

I still do not understand why Oasis Hosting is offering it partly. Not my problem, but to make it clear, it is not mine updated and working scripts.
Just wanted to point out because Conner decided to **** talk Arctic Servers and me to customers of him. Like it would be "my" fault that the scripts are bugged, even tho, I'm not working with him anymore. Or how Oasis Hosting supreme power is better than Arctic Servers and stupid marketing tactics like that.

King Regards,
Meijk/Dominic from King Solutions.

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Hey, thanks for taking the time to post this warning on our thread. Thankfully, the issues you've raised have been resolved by our migration to the open source scriptset Found Here. This means that most issues with the scripts are patched out, and also has the added benefit of being cheaper for our customers as they no longer have to pay the monthly rental fee. The costs are now reduced to a setup fee and web hosting charge should they choose to make use of those services.

As for the supposed "**** talking", I can't speak for every case but in my experience Conner only ever provides potential customers who request the information with a comparison of hardware between the hosts. In this case, his saying that our hardware is superior for Mount&Blade is justified when compared with the servers listed here (https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?topic=343236.0) and here (http://www.fsegames.eu/forum/index.php?topic=31135.0), as taking into account location and specifications for that customer's needs they were.

If you have any issues with the way we do business, please do not hesitate to contact us directly. We're always more than willing to take on board any feedback you may have. However, as is always the case, forming it as if you have been attacked while posting on a public forum is not the best way to go about it. We're both established, professional server hosts. We should contact each other like companies, not like the overly dramatic members of this community tend to.

Kind regards,

Althalus
Director, Oasis Hosting

Oh right, community drama. I stopped paying attention to/caring about it ~2 years ago, best thing I ever did.