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I agree that breakable/repairable weapons would be a realistic feature, but at the same time I'm struggling to think of a single game in which weapon degradation was a good idea and not just a pain...

Alright, I'm going to preface this post by saying that I have not read all 6 pages of this thread, and so if this has been said before I apologize.

It seems to me that a lot of the people who are posting replies on this topic have attached themselves to one aspect of what the OP said, like the fact that he mentioned magic, and are missing the overall point of what he is suggesting. This OP is obviously someone who enjoys playing MMORPGs for the community, wide-player base, diversity of quests, pvp combat in an open world etc...but who has also grown tired of the grinding, repetitive and unrealistic nature of virtually all MMORPG combat, and is therefore suggesting that an MMORPG world with M&B style combat would be a vast improvement, which it would be. That's all, he is not saying that M&B should be an MMO or that it should have magic, he's just saying that an MMORPG with M&B combat would be revolutionary.

AoC 说:

I support main idea. It was proposed before (as just 1 cavalryman take 2 slots or more complicated).

It's logical and fair. Also, i think that raising from peasant to knight should be impossible.

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I agree, perhaps we could solve this problem with a recruiting system in which there are two different pools of manpower. The first would allow you to levy peasants from villages (like the current system) and "raise"/train them to become professional soldiery, probably mostly infantry, archers and light cavalry. The other source of manpower would be the nobility, who you cannot just straight draft but must be "won over" diplomatically, supported heavily and tied to you through vassalage obligations. It would be much more difficult and expensive to draw from the nobility, and there would be a limit as to how many men you could draw from them (there should be a limited amount of nobles) but it would pay off in the end by allowing you access to a small number of elite heavy cavalry as well as maybe foot knights.

Just a little related tangent here, sorry if this counts as totally off topic...

The real problem here is not that the player cannot use a spear well. With a decent polearm and some practice, the human player can become as (if not more) deadly with a spear as with any other weapon.

The problem is with the AI. AI hoplites/spearmen are especially awful with their spears and seem to stand no chance against equivalent tier enemy melee units using swords, axes and maces. The "weapons distance bumper" is easily overcome by a human player but the AI just can't deal with it.

I don't know how you would fix this problem, I think it may just be an inherent part of M&B's basic design.

Oddball_E8 说:

damn i love that sword!

wish i had one in real life...

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Here:

http://www.kultofathena.com/product~item~500062~name~Spanish+Falcata.htm

and here:

http://www.kultofathena.com/product~item~DT202A~name~Del+Tin+Spanish+Falcata.htm

and here:

http://www.imperialweapons.com/swords/Gen2/IP-086.html

Yeah, I don't think that there were any invasions of Britain during this time period. Vikings were gone, Romans were long gone and England had a somewhat uneasy peace with France (no French invasions during the year 1297 though).

There was a massive debate about horse archers in general awhile back (before v 1.0), but I don't think the AI has changed much since then, so you could check that thread out here:

http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,43469.0.html

A few people have already commented on this, and I'm pretty sure that they will try and fix it for the next release. Personally, I just don't even bother fighting them. There are rumors that in the final version the Scythians might even be reduced to raiding parties and mercenaries, and that the map won't even extend to Scythia.

Talon 说:

Padded thorax?

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This image is actually, once again, from that same book "Warfare in the Classical World." Its caption is:

"Iphicrates' Reforms"
"The Athenian general Iphicrates was a great innovator who saw the potential of peltasts and used them with considerable success against Spartan hoplites (as at the battle of Lechaeum-see pg. 57). In the light of this experience, he also introduced modifications to the traditional hoplite equipment, making it lighter, and thus increasing the hoplite's chances against peltasts. The color drawing shows these changes. The large, heavy, metal-faced hoplon has been replaced by a smaller, lighter, leather-faced shield. His metal greaves are discarded-replaced by boots called Iphicratids after the general. His cuirass is of quilted linen rather than stiff layers, and his helmet is of the latest 'Thracian' type. This style cuirass is fairly typical of 4th century BC-Plutarch describes a similar corslet worn by Alexander at the battle of Gaugamela. Of course, our figure now has less protection than the traditional hoplite, so, to compensate, his spear is lengthened to 12ft (3.6m) to enable him to outreach his heavier opponent. This equipment did not supplant the traditional panoply, which remained as popular as ever."

This figure or someone like him would be an interesting addition to TPW, even though I think Iphicrates' reforms were after the Peloponnesian war. I would particularly like to see additional, greek syle footwear in the mod, like some sandals or 'Iphicratids.'

Sweet references, one thing though, the first picture in your last batch of references is also from this same book I've been talking about ("Warfare in the Classical World"), and that soldier's caption is: "A Paphlagonian or Phyrgian spearman from Asia Minor. He carries a small round shield, javelins and a spear. On his head is a wicker helmet, reinforced with metal plates." He is listed under the 'Persian Troops' page in part of 'The Persian Wars' chapter, so he might not be Illyrian.

Here's another picture of Illyrians, according to Wikipedia:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ab/IllyrianwarriorsMaybeScordisci.gif

Mostly I was referring to two times. Once when I went up against a caravan that I outnumbered (with hoplites, holding position in line formation) and the caravan guard just ran us down right off the bat. We took 10 casualties in like 3 seconds, including myself. Also, when I went in with my own, relatively small army and an allied Spartan Army against an Athenian force with lots of cavalry, the Spartan Allies (lots of Hoplites) would move forward in formation, walking straight at the cavalry, and the cavalry pretty much totally cut them down, so maybe it's just that the AI hoplites aren't great against AI cavalry. But my main complaint is that the cavalry are charging a hoplite wall straight on in the first place. Is there any way to mod it so that the AI cavalry let their hoplites engage with the enemy hoplites before they proceed to attack the enemy's flank and/or skirmish? Maybe some of the cavalry should be given throwing spears as a primary and a light lance as a secondary.

Also, just in general I don't think as many of the cavalrymen should have the curaisses and aspis' (what's the plural of aspis?), maybe just a few of them while the rest use linothorax and/or chitons with a smaller shield, or no shield.

Which leads me to another point: I think that the use of really high quality armor (Curaiss, aspis, greeves, corinthian helm, etc...) should be a lot more restricted, especially on Thracian melee troops, who virtually all have a heavy bell curaiss. Shouldn't the majority of the Thracians be very lightly armored, fast moving skirmishers? As is, even the skirmishers are pretty good in a melee and they don't really skirmish at all, they just throw their spears as they charge.

Sorry, no pottery with Thessalian in the caption that I can find. The book basically says that cavalry througout Greece at this time period were a very lightly armed and armored skirmishing and screening force, to sum it up.

This could be wrong, but weren't Cavalry (in Greece and Macedon) only introduced as heavy shock assault troops during and after the reigns of Philip and Alexander? Shouldn't the Peloponnesian War cavalry be light skirmishing and screening forces as well as maybe horse archers? Because, as is, the Cavalry in TPW are a bunch of completely badass assault troops who charge straight into hoplite formations and win.

Also, are the Athenian Cavalry supposed to be 'Tessalian' or 'Thessalian,' because right now they are spelled 'Tessalian.' I'm not trying to be a ****, I just have never heard of Tessalians before and I didn't want the mod to be stuck with a typo (if it is a typo, maybe Tessalians exist, I just don't know).

Sorry, the book just says he's a Thessalian, so that's all I got.

His caption is:

"The cavalryman, a Thessalian, wears unusual headgear, probably made from cowskin, and carries no shield. Like all ancient horsemen he lacks stirrups and sits well back to maintain control of his horse."

It also says that the footman is "of helot, or serf, stock and accompanied his master into battle. Armed with a javelin or alternatively a sling, he would also support his master with refreshment, carried in a goatskin bag."

I think his master is supposed to be the in-color picture of 'The Spartan Hoplite' that dominates most of that page in the book and is the first picture on that website link I gave.



P.S. On your download page, the part with the screenshots has this same in-color Spartan picture, and one of the backgrounds to a loadscreen in-game had a picture of a Thracian peltast from this book as well.

The cavalryman in this picture is supposed to be Thessalian I think:

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://warandgame.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/spartanhoplite.jpg&imgrefurl=http://warandgame.wordpress.com/2008/04/29/the-spartan-hoplite/&usg=__FbrOOTTds4gZAZH4xmB3kGdAAn0=&h=946&w=423&sz=235&hl=en&start=62&um=1&tbnid=oOqhS9Bj3-IPIM:&tbnh=148&tbnw=66&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dthessalian%2Bmilitary%26start%3D42%26ndsp%3D21%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN

I'm pretty sure this picture comes from John Warry's "Warfare in the Classical World."


EDIT: The guy on the horse in the second picture, that is.

I'm surprised to hear so many people say that peltasts are underpowered, because I've seen them take out wave after wave of attacking soldiers, especially those witout shields. If anything they should be made a little bit weaker and more prone to skirmishing, instead of just throwing spears as they charge, if you know what I mean.

The Sicilian City States or The City of Syracuse. That is, if you are even considering extending the map that far. If not, then I vote for 'The Thessalian League'

I usually am fighting to the last man though. This mod, awesome as it is, is really difficult.

I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but the assassins are way too good. Maybe not in the later game, but right now I get killed every time I go out against an assassin attack, and they happen quite frequently (at night I realize). Just a few questions and comments about the assassins in TPW:

A) Why are there two assassins? It seems like assassination is the kind of thing you would normally do solo.

B) Why are the assassins in full war panoply? Some guy in full bronze armor with a bronze shield and a heavy spear is not exactly my idea of an assassin. I'm not saying he should be week, just a little more discreet is all (And not a complete rape artist).

C) Why are there so many Assassin attacks? Who wants me dead that badly? I just started playing and all of the sudden I'm the target of high profile assassins. The assassin attacks should start once you reach a certain renown level, because I can't imagine that someone would want to spend so much time and energy on assassinating a lowly mercenary captain of zero importance.

D) Concerning the Elean Bodyguard guys, I'm thinking they shouldn't be allowed to go into conventional battles and get wasted on the front lines (like mine did). They should only appear during the assassin attacks, that way you don't have to keep buying them. Or, you could consider allowing the player to bring a select few of his own troops with him if he doesn't have any elean guard. I realize that this would defeat the purpose of having a separate, 'bodyguard' unit, but at the same time it doesn't really make sense to me why I should walk around all on my lonesome at night when I have plenty of capable troops in my army for protection.