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I field both and the Shadow Legionnaires seem to perform better and die less for 2 reasons;

1) They always spawn with shields
2)  Cavalry tends to fair better in *most* field battles.

Where the immortals really shine is taking on massive cavalry charges.  Those 2 handed swords destroy cavalry.  I took on the snake cult army with Immortals backed by a mix of ravenstern rangers and armored xbowman.  That initial cavalry charge by snake cult folded like wet paper against the immortals.  As you know units sans shields are easy prey to ranged units so the shadow legionnaires are better overall.  But boy do I love how devastating those Immortals are.

I send in Infantry before the wall is clear and before the first call for reinforcements from the defenders.  Then I have the archers follow me and I stand near the foot of the ladder.  Archers send in support fire to help the infantry break onto the castle ledge.  When I hed up the ladders the archers are right with me.  Sending Immortals up a ladder with archers and myself clearing ranged defenders works nicely.  In previous versions I went straight to kingship but now I am a vassal of the Empire so I can horde Immortals and Shadow Legion troops.  As a vassal I am appalled at how cowardly the Emporer is in picking fights with weak and dying factions only.  I am biding my time to rebel from that weasel of a King.

Hinkl 说:

lol no something around 8 or 9
bladesmen could have 4

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I stand corrected.  It is the bladesman indeed.

I like my swarm of Immortals with Shadow Knights.  They just steam roll everything!  I always found it funny that blademasters had a power strike of 4.  Really?

The lesson with any Bethsoft game lately is to wait for game to be modded for at least 6 months to a year before its worth cracking it open and trying.  From Oblivion on bethesda RPGs are always tenfold better with mods.  I always regret playing vanilla Oblivion before things like Oscuros overhaul was released.  Same goes for Fallout 3 and FOOK and now new vegas and Nevada.  I am deeply endebted to the modding community for taking good games and making them great.  Besides a year after release of Skyrim I *might* be able to afford a rig to play the game with mods.  Hell if it wasnt for PoP I would still be lurking the TLD forums, waiting patiently.

Amalec 说:

Really, the best bet for capturing prisoners seems to be auto battle. When I'm short on cash I lock my good troops up, grab 300 raw recruits, give them a few nights of training and then go auto battle ai lords until there's handful of top tier troops left. A 150 man ai army usually leaves 40-70 prisoners through the auto calc.

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I felt similar way as well but this does not work well in times of peace.  You can make a fair amount of money in times of peace by using a small party to run down those size 30 bandit / adventurer parties.  I was shocked how fast the money came doing that.  Additionally dont forget your lords can help.  If you have a city try assigning a lord with no land one of the linked villages to him.  That lord will spawn / work out of your new town and when he has prisoners they will eventually be left in your town.  As marshall in peace time you can still tell your lords to flee to a town which is an awesome money generator if they happen to have 50+ prisoners in tow.

To add to the list Mystmountain Shamans are good early access blunt weapon fighters.  I havent tried recruiting them yet but after fighting wolfbode they are damn nice blunt weapon troops.

The doomguides from the three sisters unique spawn are amazing prisoner generators.  Knights of the ebony gauntlet are good choices as well.  Sarleon Knights spawn with blunt weapons sometimes.

Being a bow person I find it is important to get ranged coverage up on the wall.  Most of the early casualties on my part are from the archers not on the walls but seated behind them.  I try to time it so when there is a hole at the top of the ladder I can quickly run by and get away from melee.  From a place safe from the archers behind the wall I take down the melee preventing my charging troops from running in.  This allows infantry/cavalry to give you some real estate at the top of the walls making a foothold for a few of your archers.  I will then start taking down ranged behind the wall.  I only target those that are actively firing if I can as some just stand there (lucky me).  Dont forget to pick up arrows as you go.

I had to roleplay early in my game and save the the noldor army from two jatu armies which then gave them hordes of decent troops.  I imagined myself a Numenorian for lack of a better word.  Now he is all pimped out at 1400 troops and they are decent for the most part.  I can't wait to be a prisoner, that is going to be one mean fight.

There is the chest in Rane that has one and the lair of thieves from the rumors quest will have one. Always ask about rumors.  The Noldor tournaments always reward a nice item, sometimes better than a gem!  Lordly Noble armor from my last tournament, out of 5 tournaments I only had a gem rewarded once and I'm ok with that 

@Tuckles

I ahve tried using the glaive on foot. That is what I used with the Elite Galantine, try taking more than one horse coming from different directions at a time with a glaive.  One on one with a glaive versus horse is easy as you say.

My point with the swords(pardon the pun). Is that their no discernible game mechanic difference amongst the types of weapons and in some cases (notably the shortsword) is counter-intuitive. I am not familiar with Fire emblem so no comment there.

On the bow thing...  My opinion is based on effectiveness from one mod to another.  Most mounted units in this game have shields and are smart enough to use them. Unless your tactic is to target already engaged units then one on one its a waste of a precious arrow to shoot at shields/horses.  However with a javelin you can switch aim and throw so fast that one on one targets dont react fast enough to block allowing one fast shot while their shields are down.  In this mod it has been much more effective for me than using bows.  I did edit my character to try out horse archery and just simply wasnt as effective.  My own personal opinion YMMV.

Have you ever tried taking the Elite Galine infantrymen and as soon as you spawn tell them to hold position against the edge of the map?  If the opposing party has no horse archers anyone charging that group is slaughtered instantly.  I choose the horse archers as they are less likely to form a clump of horsemen bashing at each other... dispersing the opponent makes them easier to take down and mounted archers do that the best.  As far as weapon balances go there is not much in terms of difference amongst all the one hand swords.  The short swords are slower than good bastard swords and nothing, nothing beats the extravagant sabres (for pure one hand swords) which I think are a bit too strong.  It would be nice to see the shortswords fasters and silver/cruciform lean toward reach or speed trading off other attributes to obtain them.  I played Band of Warriors and devestated opponents with horse archery but I find that my tactics from there do not hold up well in this mod. It takes too long to draw, aim and fire a bow which is too large an opportunity to be taken out by other ranged units.  Some faster bows would help.  Compare that to the infinitely faster bodkin javelins for more damage while you have a shield at hand to boot.  There is no comparison as far I am concerned... the AI does well with horse archery (their aim is stellar on elite units)  but as far as the player goes its not as effective.  2 slots for bow/ammo and 27 arrows at 24dmg combined with no shield versus 18 javelins 34 damage which are much faster and you can keep a shield up and ready.  So for the bow players it would be nice to have faster mounted bows to make them comparable.  For polearms... their increased speed means they get couched alot faster... gone are my days of wading in amongst a few horse in top gear and fighting through... the speed on polearms assures my future of being shish-kebab real soon.  I do like not seeing any ridiculously long polearms 170 is a nice top end, I would say slow them down a wee bit but otherwise they are fine.  I was looking throught the items_kinds1.txt file and there are things there I have never seen in merchants (ancient items).  Saving those for a rainy day are we?  The twohand swords are great. I managed to find a watered steel extravagant one which I break out when I know Ill be facing the masses of unwashed footsoldiers.  No shield, superb reach and damage.  I like the high damage in general (bows seem a bit lacking given their slowness)  as this means you have to take real care in facing opponents. 

On a  side note... day 44 in my campaign 2 siege armys against one town so I thought Id join til I saw the 1100 defenders!

Delmarinen(sp?)  seems to have suffered a massive mudslide burying the armorer and tavern.

This is one of the harder mods to level up in... no quests means pure combat XP and opponents in general are tougher than many mods.

Was reading the thread and got lost in tactics... forgot about the solo part .  Well to be honest in M&B and archers vs. solo it has alot to do with terrain and heavily armoured horses.  Been there, done that. Its tedious but hilly terrain on a decent horse is the best way when facing multiple archers.  in a flat field you are toast.

I cant believe that so many are fearful of swadian deserters and their puny crossbows.  Just get your cavalry to follow you, yell it *alot* and charge the crossbowmen shield up. Once you smash their lines keep you shield up and target any crossbow men still clutching their inferior crossbow. Engage them while your cavalry mixes it up with the rest... childs play really.  Try taking Band of Warriors mod and going up against some Dark Avengers, and you will wish for more fights against puny swadian toothpick flingers!

I think I posted that comment about smashing shields with bow shots.  It was in the mod Band of Warriors, which happens to have very reduced stats on shields. Whether or not its possible in the real world is beyond my ken, however it is immensely satisfying to break a shield in the game then plant an arrow in that persons forehead. Its a double edged sword, as I carry a shield and its only good for taking a few hits from the vicious crossbowmen in that game.  Thats a warbow with 30 base dmg, 300 archery, and 7 points in archery.. 2 or 3 shots shatters a round non metal like shield.

The run up the ramp siege in vanilla M&B leaves much to be desired, namely only one ramp and if you use battlesize changer it is nigh impossible to win those fights due to the sheer number of troops on the wall.

The only other sieges I have played are in 1066 and the AI pathing when you are outside the city gates is terrible.  Granted this is .751 of M&B but I dont think the AI pathing is much better in .808.  The in-city fights in 1066 however work rather well and are exhilirating. 

Laying siege could have multiple types of fights.  The City could decide to ride out and womp you to prevent your siege from blockading revenue/spawning defensive parties (Open battle on map).  You could also assault the castle/town but this would require a custom map.  If you rule out non-tethered siege equipment(catapault / ballista(seeing as you banned mechanized ranged equipment ;P) and just allow for a battering ram at the gates.  Have a ram pre-placed at the gates and if there are more than 6 troops then it starts a bash animation that ticks down the strength of the door til 0% and door is open(no clue on if this is remotely possible).  Problem with this is that the AI pathing is quite bad and the ram will act as an impediment to your rushing forces once the door is breached.  Alternatively you could simply auto-calc the death of some of your army that leads up to you rushing into the gates... pre litter the field with dead soldiers / arrows and you start by facing a wall breeming with angry archers and a bashed gate bristling with spears awaiting your charge.  You could use the vanilla siege map.. heck leave the ramp of pointy death there, want to run up... go right ahead!

Otherwise its a great mod, love not having to worry about funds and It is one of the harder mods to play with. I rarely take on more than 2 opponents as even the best armor does not hold up well against the devastating weapons in this game.  My favorite loadout is 2 sets of bodkin javelins and a watered steel bastard sword/shield and spirited light charger.  The reach and speed of the bastard sword is a huge advantage on horseback when dealing with the hordes of extravagant sabre wielding lunatics on fast horses. I have tried all foot armies, and a horde of Elite infantry holding their backs to the map edge are pretty darn efffective but I enjoy hordes of elited mounted archers over all other units in the game.

One other suggestion if I might.  Would be nice to order follow, stay ,patrol here to your forces(like TLD).  Would really add to the overland map strategy.  Do cities pay for the parties they spawn?  Is it possible to economically crush a city by destroying its forces relentlessly before laying siege?  Would be nice to know.

Thanks again for a great mod!

Selvhan 说:

Anyone here is really using a ranged weapon ?

i have been trying but.. i really kill faster on a mount with a sword or morning star

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Ranged Archery at higher levels is devestating. Can kill much much faster with ranged.  War bow with bodkin arrows combined with about 7 archery 5 horseback kills the fastest unless you are up against foot archers.

I must say that this has been an immensely enjoyable mod.  Currently level 34 and my heroes are 15-17th level (15 of them apx.)  and I can take Dark Avengers on with no help consistently now.  It has been hard to do as those snipers can ruin your fun fast.  The unique items are great, thank heaven for Durendal!  The new stats on Avencior have made it collect dust even by my dedicated polearm heroes... just too slow a weapon and killing with couched lance is too slow for me.  Stats on Avencior before 220 reach / 65 speed made it quite formidable.  I miss having mixed war parties... It was nice to see the occasional turncoat in an enemies army.  The odd dark sniper amongst that group of bandits can be a real wakeup call too.

Thanks again!

I thought this was our answer to how to fight the war. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJFgbifqwDc&mode=related&search=

Lets draft some modified Roomba's with sub machine guns so I can fight this war from home ;P