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YankeeSamurai 说:

How about we stop begging for factions and allow the devs to concentrate on issues that actually affect gameplay, like the melee system, cavalry, spiking artillery, chat scaling, and the supposedly myriad balance kinks that need to be worked out. Concrete gameplay is infinitely more important than official time wasted re-skinning some models.

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inb4 I missed the point of the thread

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Pretty sure talking about things on the forum doesn't interfere with them concentrating on whatever they want to, how about people talk or beg for whatever they like.


Personally I think more factions can only be a good thing, but I don't see them making any more major additions, if they did, expanding the scope of the game to include the peninsular campaign and sure even the Americans, while not directly involved in the Napoleonic conflicts they were fighting the British during the time frame and even fought units that were relocated from Europe after Napoleon was beaten the first time.

Regardless of the reasons as a Portuguese-American I'd love to see the US and Portuguese or either, but again, I doubt they will add anything more major so I'm not holding my breath

RT2 说:

Wow, so I just got banned on the PRT 1866 server. Some ******** ******* killed half of the team, including me when I had the best rifle, so I killed him for revenge then I got banned. That is just bull****. In game name "Cyrus".

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its happened to me too i think its cuz everyone assumes the tker is going to be voted so then they vote you and everyone 1s it. but i prefer the nk server anyway the palouse town is fixed too.

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Same here, and now he's taking my pseudo in others servers and he's tking his teammates. Everyone will think I'm a tker... Thanks to PRT_Beer for the no reason permaban while Cyrus is playing with impunity. That was really epic.  Incompetent admin + tkers = lot of fun.

If you see a player with my pseudo tking people, that's not me!

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i saw that, it was total BS, even after you were banned someone was there on your name TKing, that should have been a clue, not to mention the guy who came on named RT3 just to TK you, i thought beer definitely did a poor job taking care of the problem.

it was as easy as banning cyrus, who has been kicked multiple times before that ive seen.

im having a lot of fun with this, so far it has all run flawlessly for me, no lag, no crashes, except for the praire map which is bugged of course.

it would be nice to have more realistic shooting skill, since its adjustable, folks who prefer it where everyone shoots like they have parkinsons could still play that, but it would be fun to play a much more tactical game where accuracy is more realistic, granted you cant get it very right because the accuracy while moving is hardcoded.


to me, rifle accuracy should be equivalent to about 12 MOA at 100 yards when standing still, meaning a 12 inch group at 100 yards with an accurate rifle, less with a less accurate rifle, which is on the poor side of marksmanship in real life but should work in the game. at 300 yards it you should  be able to hit a man sized target, not garaunteed, but it shouldnt be near impossible  like it is now.

the balance is that you slow down the time it takes to shoulder and get a rifle on target, with the more accurate long barrel guns being really slow, and the less accurate but lighter guns being more quick, right now you can carry a scoped 1861 and use it in CQB and you can lift aim and fire it just as fast as someone wirth a pistol, making for an unrealistic AND unbalanced situation. pistols should be quite accurate out to 15-20 yards give or take depending on the accuracy of a given pistol, past that they can still hit, but not garaunteed, they should be quick to get on target, and retain decent accuracy while moving. although in this period most pistols are muzzle loaders or cap and ball, so the reloading ought to be slowed down considerably, this is why the S&W model 2 isnt as good a pistol right now as it should be, its weak, but if the other pistols had realistic reload times, the S&W would be a great choice, because it would be several times over faster to reload, i also think you should not be able to reload a cap and ball while moving, id like to see anyone try that with much success lol.

this would make it so that rifles and pistols are much more specialized, you wont see everyone running around a town with a long rifle in their hands clearing rooms, and pistols would be more than justa backup weapon. yes, rifles would be accurate, and it would be hard to move around in the open, but thats how it is in real life, stick to cover. on the flip side though, once you do close to within 50 yards with rifle armed men, then they will be in trouble, because the volume of fire and accuracy of pistol wielders will then be great, and up close the rifles are just too slow.

the weapons cost and the numbers of them ought to be balanced as well. in 1866 anything but muzzle loading rifles were still quite uncommon. there should be a limit to how many people on 1 team can use a breech loading rifles or they should be very very expoensive, and scoped rifles, in my opinion shouldnt even be in game, they were very rare at the time, they dont actually "work" anyway and normal rifles are more than accurate enough anyway just seems like another unnecessary option..

all of this would also serve to make the indian factions more effective, cause right now they seem pretty weak compared to the others.

sadly i know a lot of this isnt possible at the moment because of hard coded features in M&B. another feature that would be great, but probably make the game difficult to run would be a LOT more smoke, and it should hang around and drift across with the wind. in a heavy gun fight it should even become hard to actually see your enemy.

considering derringer type guns of all types are still made in large numbers, i would say the derringer is still the derringer of today.

thats more like the cane-gun of today imo.

while he is of course right, he does have to realize that this mod is based very heavily on western lore, the kind of stuff that was found in dime novels and john wayne movies.


like it or not this is the reality of western lore, its the image of the western cattlemen, be they mexican, american or whatever, they are considered to be on both extremes, there are the noble rugged freedom loving ones, and the immoral lawless ones.


in western lore, cowboys, gauchos, vaqueros, charros and indians among other groups are all represented in both good and bad light at times, there is no reason to take that as jab at ALL people of that type.

in western movies many of the villains ARE cowboys in fact. yet real life cowboys love western movies and the good image of cowboys is not seen as tarnished by this portrayal. so even if the game displays gauchos as bandits that's no reason to feel like it is an insult to all gauchos.

that being said, he is right that the word gaucho refers more to a south american.

vaquero means much the same thing, however it was the common term used in northern mexico and texas, which is the area of this mod, so i think vaquero would be a more historically accurate term.

you need some good southern drawl type stuff, would be good for all sorts of bandits, lawmen etc.



like if you're on the wrong side of the law, a vigilante might say "Ahm fin'in ta take you in boah" written properly it'd would be "im fixing to take you in boy"

you gotta have a spitoon.


i like the idea of being able to challenge someone to a duel too, i find the pistol d\uel feature in this mod to be genius and i think the more opportunity to use it, the better.

maybe possible to even have a script where if you win over and over at blackjack you get an increasing random chance that the opposing player will challenge you to a duel, like you win a bunch of money off some guy and hes drunk and angry, or he thinks you're cheating, or hes just an angry sort and wants his money back.

or maybe its even possible to give you a "cheat" button, that you can use and it'd be kinda like when you try to sneak into an enemy town you have a chance of ending up with an angry gambler staring you down.

Penis Colada 说:

Sniders are super rare as they're British and just introduced in 1866.

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rare enough i didnt even know there was one in game, i still havent run into one, thats cool ill have to look out for it.

i love the snider, im actually looking to get one in the next month or two.

right now, i like to go with the spencer rifle as my main, 2 sets of rifle ammo, and a winchester as a backup.

i like the winchester since it is fast, immediately puts a lot of roundsin my hands to deal with a desperate situation like getting de-horsed among enemy, and it effectively expands my ammo load since it carries so much.

for general combat though i love the spencer, fast enough, strong enough and accurate enough for general combat.   


also love the walker colt from time to time, its just an awesome gun, its a big old chunk of steel.                         

mouthnhoof 说:

Banastre 说:

The mod seems to be too focused on making a "lone ranger" or small gang group, and though those types of groups are indeed fun, the mod completely disregards the fact that some people want a large army to fight with.

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I don't speak for the modders, but it seems that their idea of a large army is lots of low-mid tier foot-soldiers. I support this view. 100 troops should come very late in the game since the player will decimate any AI with such a force.

If you want 100 men army for under 70$/week:
1. Train mostly foot soldiers, they are MUCH cheaper than cavalry.
2. Do not hire mercs, they are more expensive for their level than faction troops.
3. Keep most of the force at tier 2-3. Their wages should be around 100 cents. Wages shoot up from here for lower return.
4. Employ companions, they are cheap and you can arm them well. Use them as cavalry instead of the expensive hired cavalries. Easily replacing 10 troops of 6+$/week.
5. Leadership, leadership. 30 agility or strength is a waste, raise them a little and go for charisma. You will also make a lot more money with high Trade.

100 troops with wages of ~100c/week and leadership of 8 (40% reduction) is ~60$/week.

Keep a small number of elite troops at the top of your list so they appear at the 1st wave of every battle. Since you do not upgrade all the time, you will have many "+" just waiting to fill any officer position that will be opened once one of the better troops is killed. Do not upgrade until you feel you need to - Remember, dead troops get no salaries.

I bet you also play US if you have sever money issues. This is because you sell the looted guns in US towns and the US has a flooded market following the civil war. Sell them to the Indians or in Mexico where the price of guns is much higher (also avoid buying guns there). With high trade skill, transporting some trade goods between factions starts to become a lucrative business as well.

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overall i agree wityh you completely.

but i do feel that if you join the army you should receive a stipend, i find it more realistic,so that you hopefully dont need to go seek other sources of income while in the service of a national army just to keep up your troops, this sounds more realistic to me, it doesnt have to be a lot, just enough so that you should hopefully not have to struggle to keep up wages.


more importantly though is there needs to be a method to help support the wages for garrisoned troops otherwise the player is actually better off not holding any forts, towns, hotels etc.

that looks like a bren gun or czech ZB-26, not a mondragon.


the mondragon is a semi automatic rifle with a more traditional rifle looking design.

the mondragon was used in WWI in very limited numbers though so it would make a good rare expensive gun to get, though it would not be as accurate as bolt rifles it would make up for that in volume of fire.


here's a page with some pictures of the mondragon.


http://www.texastradingpost.com/militaria/mondragon.html

i think the wages are fine right now, it forces you to make choices, for example, its easy to have a large unskilled infantry force, or a small elite infantry force,or you can have a medium sized light cavalry force, or a small but highly skilled heavy cavalry force.


however, there are 2 issues in my opinion.

the first is if i join a a major army such as US or mexico, then it requires a large force to be able to wage war, to be able to take on a faction leaders force, or to take a stronghiold requires quite a large force.

now i could go the cheapskate way, and build up a ton of men, then expend them on a large battle and then disband them before the week is up, but i dont like that, it seems cheap, almost like breaking character for the sake of advancing in the game.

so to me i feel like you should either get a discount on wages for troops within your faction, or get paid a stipend that is large enough to finance a decent chunk of your force.

the second issue is garrisoned forces, if i take strongholds and hotels, it becomes difficult to pay to properly garrison them

i finally played call of juarez bound in blood it was on sale on steam so i grabbed it.

at the right price its good for some quick mindless fun.


the thing that stood out to me immediately was the ridiculous choices for guns.

the game starts in the civil war, and yet somehow, there isnt a muzzle loader to be found, instead every soldier on both sides is carrying a winchester 1866, if they wanted lever guns in the game, then at least they could have used henry rifles.
It's actually a Winchester 1894, which makes it even more horribly anachronistic -PC

second, every pistol used is a conversion which of course were rare until 1869, certainly not standard.

then later in the game they have colt SAA's in 1866 despite those only coming along in 1873.
It also has a far-too-new Smith & Wesson Model 3 (the "quickshooter" or whatever) -PC

then of course theres the usual cliche overuse of the gatling gun, its a cool gun, so everyone wants to use it in games and movies, but the reality was t hat something like 2 dozen total were used in the war, those were privately purchased by generals for their units since the military declined to buy any. on top of that, the early gatlings were very unreliable, it was the later models that were good.

the way they name the guns is stupid too, they could use the realistic names or close to them, but instead they use ridiculous ones, the winchester is simply called the "classic rifle" im pretty sure it was not a "classic" the year it was released.

the function is off too, mainly for the winchester, the shooting is centered around using a crosshair, without the sights,even though you can use the sights, because of that when you shoot your character pulls the gun up to cycle the lever, which is ridiculously slow, an average lever gun shooter can cycle much faster than that, you do not lower or pull up the rifle to cycle the action, you should be able to keep the gun on target while cycling the lever, and the recoil is too much as well honestly, the lever guns use pistol ammo, not rifle ammo, thats anothre retarded thing, you having to carry both rifle and pistol ammo, when in reality you could have pistols and a rifle all in the same caliber.

this is what happens when someone who's probably never shot a gun, and doesnt do some simple research is tasked to design and choose the guns for a game.


im glad to see they took the good out of the old game though, the big open wilderness environment, and heavily expanded on it.

its still not quite there though, they could do so much more with the engine, they've got the makings of a great western, right now its just mediocre.

the music is terrible too, its not that its "bad" its just so not fitting to the setting, i want saloon music and stuff, stuff like you hear in quigley down under  etc, the mistake they made is instead of proper styled music to put you in the theme, they used music meant to put you in the mood or emotion of the scene, a good sound track should do both.

i dont want rock music accompanying my shootout at the saloon.

i believe what he did was sort of like a 1900s version of "tuning".

back then manufacturing was a much more individual affair, not like the modern assembly line, and the methods were not as accurate, so there was variation in tolerances and fit of the parts from gun to gun.in fact the modern replica revolvers (the steel ones anyway) are actually higher quality than the originals in general. so if he took apart a few colts, checked the parts for fit to each other and then put together a tighter fitting gun from all the parts, then he'd have a pretty good shooting gun for the day.


although if you check out the special features, the actor that played tuco, eli wallach knew nothing about guns, and was told to just improvise, so all the stuff he does was just him BS'ing around acting like he knows what he's looking at lol.

in call of juarez there was one level that had great potential, it unfortunately was also the most empty.

the big open wilderness level where you had the horse.

it was a downright beautiful level, and huge too, would make an excellent M&B battlefield.

they should have done a lot more with that than just riding around doing menial tasks for some sterotypical wise mystical indian guy.

not exactly a "western" but civil war is close and has many of the same guns.

the history channels civil war games are fun for a quick mindless romp, they're done on the call of duty engine, i love just using the musket all the time.


call of juarez was fun for one playthrough but could have been much better i think.


what we need is for rockstar to do a gritty sandbox style GTA western game, now that'd be a lot of fun and multiplayer to boot.

thats the great thing about black powder revolvers, even a broke student can afford one with a little saving.


i got my steel frame colt navy for just $125, which you wont find, i got a great deal and that was a few years ago,but if you look around you can find some good deals. also they're very cheap to shoot, they make a great, fun alternative to shooting modern guns for people who cant afford the high cost of ammo these days, plus you can get it sent to your house in the mail unlike a modern gun.


i would definitely go with a steel frame, there is nothing "wrong" with a brass frame, but you shouldnt shoot hot loads in it, it wont blow up in your face or anything, its safe, but over time it will warp and get out of spec. in the long run you'll be glad you got steel, the case hardenend steel looks better, is more historically accurate, and it will last you a lifetime, not many things we buy these days are heirlooms, but a nice black powder revolver can out last you if you take care of it, your grandkids could be shooting the same gun.

20 years down the road you wont miss the $50 or so extra you spent for steel, but you will be glad you got it.


there are tons of places to buy them, if you shop around you can snag one at a great price some times.

dixiegunworks.com
cabelas
midwayusa
sportsmansguide.com


it looks like right now you're gonna get a steel frame for around $225, you can find em cheaper if you watch gunbroker.com for a good deal, you can find used ones for a great price.

another good thing about these is many folks in countries that have less liberal gun laws can get them without jumping through hoops like a modern gun might need, so they make a very affordable accessible shooting sport.

Highlander 说:

Well, the Chassepot is not used by any troop and should be one of the rarest guns. The Winchester '66 was probably not found all over the stores in Texas either, but as time moves on while playing and the time you play reaches from 1866 to perhaps 1868, I think it is okay to have some brand new weapons available.

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i agree, though i also think it adds to the game for some national weapons to only be gainable from looting defewated troops, it adds another element to the game.

the winchester 66 is a little different in that, though new, it was something that anyone could mail order, so it would make sense for stores to carry it.

you cant really call up france and ask to buy one of their state of the art rifles.

dont get me wrong it IS fine as it is, im just throwing out ideas, the game is a lot of fun as it is, ive been having a great time.

i love the sharps and my handy remington army.


by the way, and i suppose this is just the historical stickler gun nut in me talking lol, but isn't the chassepot a bit non-historical?


technically it existed in 1866, and yes, its model is called the 1866, however, it wasn't issued in large numbers for years later, its first battlefield use was years later in the 1870s the odds that a brand new state of the art french battle rifle of which there were only a handful in the world at the time showing up in stores in the western US seems very slim.

now, if you add french troops in mexico to the mod and made their most elite troops armed with chassepots, then "maybe" its somewhat feasible. you could make it very rare and more powerful, because at the time the chassepot was a truly devastatingly powerful firearm, the wounds were horrendous even compared to the wounds caused by the large caliber muzzle loaders of the time.


now for an alternative, the prussian dreyse "needle gun" is the same type of rifle as the chassepot, a paper cartridge bolt action rifle, though its ballistics were a little inferior to the chassepot i think it fits the current use of the chassepot in this mod and it is more historically feasible, because the needle gun first saw action  in the early 1850s, giving it well over a decade to make its way to the american west. for a chassepot to be there it would have had to come off the factory floor, get on a boat and go straight to the west to even arrive there in 1866.

nice stuff.

I've got the same pietta .44 1851 navy, though mine is the steel version.
one of the coolest guns I own, and very affordable too.
they just feel right in your hand and point very natural.


i love the 1842, lots of history there, I don't have any military front stuffers myself yet, ive got a kentucky rifle, kentucky pistol, screw barrel percussion derringer and and some black powder military cartridge rifles, kropatschek,martini gahendra and mauser 71/84. not a complete collection till I get some military muzzle loaders in there nothing quite like the old big bore war horses.

ok, im not trying to get too involved here, no westerner is going to convince a chinaman on the net that communism is bad and definitely no chinaman is gonna convince westerners that democracy free speech and open societies are bad things, but i just wanted to clarify one thing as william seems to be under the impression that americans arent aware of the japanese internment.

WilliamBerne 说:

Dain Ironfoot 说:

I'd call them irritating. Germans were all evil evil people and Americans were all glorious freedom lovers who won the war with one arm tied behind their back..

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about this " with one arm tied behind their back", you meant detention centers?
02,19,1949, 2 and half months after Pearl Harbor, USA began to concentrate many people into concentration camps/detention centers,  there were more than 110,000 people were forced to move in those prisons, 70,000 of them were american citizens. I guss this is all for glorious freedom lovers ehm, and your no-propaganda-government never told you that.
maybe you can study a little Korematsu v. United States, or The Japanese American Evacuation Claims Act.

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i dont know if you were told different or something but just to make sure you dont have the wrong idea i want you to know we most certainly do know about it, the information is all public.

almost everyone knows all about what happened with the japanese internment, perhaps not all the little details names information etc but it is well known, it is viewed as a terrible crime commited against even our own citizens, granted its often overlooked when talking about ww2, especially since the people were not murdered and such so it rather pales in comparison to what was going on around the world at the time, but we most certainly are aware of it, it is even taught in school.

we dont try to hide our past like certain countries do, there is no history of any kind in the united states or most western countries that would ever get you in trouble for talking about it.

if i had the money i could pay for billboards or TV commercials talking about the past crimes commited or i could march right up to capitol hill or the white house with signs about it if i choose. the same goes for most western nations.