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So you basically voted against the proposal, although you want the same? Strange.

@odysseus:

I remember to have written about killing people, not just hitting a target. I also remember to have written about the time the mod is set, not 800 Years later. Setting aside the difference between military trained archers and bowmen who earned their skill hunting.

It's somewhat like comparing some American Civil War Militia to a Member of a contemporary Special Forces Unit.

The Bow was a tool for hunting, not a weapon made for war. At least not at this time. People used to hunting were experienced bowman, farmers weren't. Soldiers carrying bows would do so primarily for hunting off the battlefield, not for killing on it.
Damage delivered by bowman on the battlefield is based on spray and pray, not on precise aim at single targets. With well aimed shots you may kill two or three targets as the bowmen (if every shot is deadly), before you need to throw the bow away to kill the rest in melee. Given that most people at this time where farmers, there just weren't enough well trained bowman to make effective use of them at the battlefield. Notable exceptions of course where mongols and some other people who originated from nomads.

I think the bows are pretty well integrated, with some small exceptions.

If I conquer a castle, ask it as a reward and are awarded what I asked, I only get the castle, with the Village remaining unclaimed.

Bug or intended?

I normally use LPs as means of determining how good a game really is. Reviews are just something written by someone from his perspective, with an emphasis on parts he considers important and noghting more. Watching LPs you are able to look at the game as it is. Like watching someone playing it a new game at E3 or any other convention.
The only choice to experience the game better without buying it is simply illegal, so most who refrain from piracy but have to look out for their money can use these LPs to get to know a game.


I'd certainly like to see an Brytenwalda LP out there, it's one of the best mods available after all.

Life_Erikson 说:

I maybe put the abstract of this on the first site in a spoiler, ending, deleting and write the conclouson down of the poll and create a new abstract with a new poll.

So we can know how the feeling is about it yet. (We got quite far with it I think)

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Good idea.

Although I already added some thoughts, I'll try to get somewhat more precise in this post.

1. Speed

Base Speed of all weapons needs to be raised by some degree, maybe save for the Two Handed War Axe. Also I think speed should scale with profiency, to imitate the effect of training.

2. Damage

Base Damage needs to be raised. Especially Polearms need a buff to their piercing damage values. However, damage scaling with profiency should be less important than it is right now. It's not that difficult to deliver a heavy blow without training, but delivering them fast and precisely is. Piercingdamage on a sword should NEVER be higher than at a spear.

3. Critical Damage or "Headshot!"

Not that I've anything against headshots in general, what bugs me is, that you get a damage bonus for getting a hit on the head with distance weapons, but you don't get it for delivering a blow to the hat. Also it's quite irritating to have someone with an arrow through the head charge at you in full speed.

Headshots as well as blows to the hat, as far as it's unarmored or only lightly armored, should be basically killing blows. One may walk away with an hatchet in the head, but he's not fighting anymore.

4. Horses

Charge Damage wouldn't be hurt by a small buff. However the most impotant point with these is damage delivered from horseback. To get a 100% Bonus right now is uncommon enough, but in reality the increase would be way higher. I'd suggest to at least double the bonus.

5. Armor

Armor right now isn't specific enough. Chainmail has to be effective against slashing, but far weaker against piercing damage. Also it's effectiveness against blunt damage shouldn't be that high. With leather it's another story. better ability to absorb blunt damage, but more vulnerable to slashing and piercing.

6. Weapon Breakage

Right now I think it's to high. I broke 3 Weapons in a single battle, spear, axe and sword, all of high quality and that's unbearable. If a weapon smith would sell a weapon fpr this price, that breaks shortly after, he'd be dead as soon as one of his customers comes back alive despite of his broken weapon. A tempered sword breaking while slashing down a couple of peasants wasn't of quality at all.

mouthnhoof 说:

Shield bash will not give anything better than the kick. If it will, it will also be overpowered.

Seleri 说:

For the sake of not degrading this discussion, please refrain from discrediting anything added to it without any reasoning at all.

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Are you kidding? deadliest warrior? Did you even watch one episode?
The purpose of that show is to excite (low)teenagers. Did you see an episode in which they test a non-ridiculous weapon and conclude that it is crap and this warrior is not so deadly after all? Of course their weapons are "deadly", and so is my bread knife and rolling pin. On  top of that they wrap the package in a "scientific" aura with meaningless measurements and a mysterious simulator. I bet they just make a mod of M&B and play that...

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I'm not kidding in any way and if you read what I wrote, you wouldn't have to ask. So the character of the show as a competetive match-up doesn't suite you, I understand that and I don't like it either. However, watching the show will still illustrate what kind of damage a weapon can do and that's basically the only purpose I used it to.

But driving an axe trough someones head and being stabbed by his hunting knife afterwards with more damage was't and it shouldn't be. If you're contetn with the state of things, you may just ignore this thread, as it is an aditional mod, not a discussion aboput changing the mod in general.

Actually I came to like it. It's more of a challenge like that and your win isn't assured.

Seriously I do not understand it myself. I guess they strike so hard that the core rod (glass fibre) breaks through the  foamed plastic and then destroys the bones. Something like that. *shrug*

Concerning your suggestion:

Sounds good, would like that.

olla podrida 说:

Ah, and about the armoured people in my videos, it is true, they know they won't die, but you have to experience it. Wounds are common to a certain degree, and you feel the hits on your body, you feel fear and adrenaline, you know your enemy will try all he can to bring you down and you will do the same. Psychologically, it's a real fighting situation.

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I think full contact fighting is as near to real combat as you can get without actually fighting for your life. I've yet to experience it myself, but I've been at the Conquest of Mythodea, the biggest LARP-Convention worldwide, and even there, where the weapons are made of foamed plastic, you experience he joy as well as the fear of battle.
To be honest, if I consider some people break bones with LARP-Weapons while adrenaline is rushing through their veins, I'm afraid of trying full contact.

mouthnhoof 说:

For the sake of not degrading this discussion, please refrain from linking "deadliest warrior" and "weapons that made Britain".  The first has zero historical (or any other) credibility. The other is a "what a wonderful nation we are" show, in particular regarding the legendary to borderline fantasy English longbows. On a personal level I find the presenter there incredibly annoying and have to fight my urge to punch him though the screen - but that is my personal problem.

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For the sake of not degrading this discussion, please refrain from discrediting anything added to it without any reasoning at all.

I won't bet my life on the creditability on those shows, however they certainly illustrate the damage done by a "pieces of wood and metal" to a human body. If I or anybody else base arguments concretely on one of these shows please feel free to declare them invalid by citing your own experience or sources.

Or do you have any objection against my claim to chop a flesh and bone would be terrifyingly easy?

_About two handed weapons : I agree : two handed weapons were quite rare (and only axes), and seeing the typical "dark age sword" everyone should see that it's impossible to use it with two hands!

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The only word to be used with more caution than "impossible" would be "never". In fact it's easy to use a onehanded blade, be it one of the era we speak about or a modern knife. just lay your second hand at the first and use the power of both arms to deliver a way stronger blow than possible with one arm. The Question isn't possibility, it's efficiency.

_About damages : Again, see some reenactors videos ... the first of any warrior in any time, is to stay alive  I agree with you, a huge hit with an axe on a unarmored head would result only in a blood bath... but delivering that kind of hit would leave the agressor defensless... and soon dead in a shieldwall battle.... This argument should work also with the "weapon speed part" : delivering a full speed hit, is 1) tiring  2)dangerous for the agressor 3) possible in duel, but impossible in a shield wall where there is no space to move.

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I didn't want to comment the reenactment videos, but at this point i feel obligated to do it. If you look at these videos you see actors, nothing more. While I won't neglect they may be skilled fighters, the video is to short to tell, I see a mayor flaw in taking these videos into account to reconstruct battle circumstances. They aimed for the shields of the other, nothing more. They didn't try to make use of the opening created by a shield raised that high. A blow to the knee or upper leg would have had a good chance of making a quick end to this battle, if either one would have the intent to incapacitate the other. Or spoken in other words: they severely lack killer instinct.

Also, as in any battle, a swift strikes creates a lesser opening, it's in a shield wall as good as everywhere else.

For my part, I work in critical care in france, and I'm sure, when reading all the "wound related posts", that everyone underestimate the resistance of human body  For example a car runing on a full speed against a footman isn't (most of the time) able to cut any arm or leg... so a short piece of metal, with a human arm speed ... I let you figure

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Working in critical care you'll most assuredly agree with me, that the damage sustained by a car accident is of blunt trauma. Of course, hitting a man with a blunt weapon won't take limbs of him, but you'll also agree, that a sword or an axe aren't blunt weapons.
They have an edge, and with an axe or, for example, a butchering knife, it's absolutely possible and with some muscle terrifyingly easy. Maybe you'll want to speak about that matter with your local butcher.

I'd highly suggest Spike's "Deadliest Warrior" especially the shows concerning Vikings, Romans and Spartans, not for their competetive nature, but for their testing of historical weaponry in action. I'm certain you'll find full episodes streamed for free (if you don't but want to watch, pm me). I think from the US you can watch all episodes directly at spike.com.

Edit: Just seeing there is also an Episode concerning the Celts wich could represent the Picts.

1. Speed:

I completely agree. Maximum speed was - and is - the key to victory in any fight. It's a simple matter, hurt first, kill first and you'll sustain less damage yourself. Only quality armor can be allowed to slow the combatant down, as it enables him to be hit without taking damage.
While swordspeed is okay, I think axes are somewhat and polearms are way to slow. In generell, a powerfull piercing movement can be done way faster than a strong slice of a blade, in game it's the other way around.

2.Damage

"Ever survived and axe slice through your head?" Nope, and I hope I never will. But neither would I want to survive a slice through the head or the stab of a spear.  Basically a blow to the unarmored head would be instant ko (including most possibly death).

Other than that, any type of weapong could use a small buff.



Related to above: Speed/Damage:

Well a trained warrior could easily cut of a limb with a sword, while a newb would just make a flesh wound. Since warband doesn't support dismemberment, somewhat exessive damage in high levels and with high profiencies (?) isn't that unrealistic.

However, theres another factor for damage that shouldn't be left unattended. Chainmail is efficient against blades, however it's almost useless against piercing weapons or blunt trauma. Meanwhile leather is able to absorb blunt trauma quite well, but is less effective against blades.

I don't really know how armor is used right now, but it would add realism if different armor reacts different.

3.One-handed or two-handed?

Every weapon can be wielded with two hands, even an ice pick. However, using it in a way it isn't intended to be used, would mean it can't be used with the same efficiency.

I certainly would like the option to wield ANY weapon either one or two handed, with a heavy speed penalty if not wielded properly, a damage penalty for two-handed weapons wielded with one hand and a damage buff for onehanded weapons wielded with two hands, as it would be in reality.

4.Shields

Signed.


5.Horses

Horses are fast enough I think. And the charging damage shouldn't be overestimated. If you are overrun by a horse, you are ko, well, but most of the time one will instinctively try to evade and be hit by the shoulder of the horse instead of "getting under its hoof". There's still enough power to take your breath and throw you down, but it's not as life threatening as it looks. Actually the damage can be assumed to be lighter than being tackled by a football player. Still, a slight buff won't hurt.

The efficiency of cavalry was due to another point. First they charged in groups, so a man knocked down by the first horse would be trampled by the following, second, and more important, was the momentum and therefore power delivered by a blow from horseback.
A horse in full gallop would add way more damage to an attack than what is applied right now, especially speaking of polearms. A couched lance is the most effective way to use the momentum of a horse, however, even a simple spear will just pierce through anything in its way if powered by a horse. Well, in reality this spear would be lost afterwards, but if you ask me weapon breakage is already way to present.