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Aethelflaed 说:

I just don't get this whole discussion... Why don't you trust Adorno and Idibil??? Have they ever disapointed us at all???
Of course there where swedish vikings in the west (at least a rune stone in Spånga, Södermanland tells us so: "... and now he lies (buried) in the west."). On the other hand there were also raids on Paris, Köln (Cologne), Trier and so on... if you develop a game... you have to stop somewhere (or wait till kingdom come (btw when is the release of that one  )). And if you include Sweden (which by that time didn't even exist as a national state) you have to include the Rus, Constantinopole (and Germany and France and....). There might some people here feeling excluded because "Serkland" hasn't been included... Just trust those guys, who are developing this DLC. I, at least, just looking forward to it... and if someone wants to perform the first viking raid on South Korea... please feel free to mod (I am not even capable of modding so I've got to miss out on that one, sadly  )
@ Adorno and Idibil: Keep up the work you've been doing like you did on Brytenwalda and this DLC will be great...

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If I remember correctly there's about 30 Swedish rune stones which mentions travels to the British Isles. That's far more than in any other Scandinavian country. And why stop at Sweden? Sweden, Denmark and Norway were the homelands of the vikings, the rest were only viking settlements so there would be no need to add them in a DLC which focuses on the British Isles.

Armaury 说:

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That map looks great and would be something in line of what I'd like to see of a west coast of Sweden as well. Anyways, it won't probably happen so.

Adorno 说:

We've attempted to follow the sources at hand. Both the Frankish and Saxon annals refer to the Viking raiders as Danes (in Latin of course).
All the way back to Charlemagne the Frankish historians write about raids by the Danish.
Later the Saxon chronicles speak of Danish raiders and their Danish chieftains. For example at the battle of Ashdown.
The area conquered by the Vikings in the era of this DLC was late referred to as the Danelaw, and later again ransoms/taxes referred to as Danegeld.
Later in history a large part of England was conquered and the king (Knud) referred to himself as king of England, Denmark and Norway.
There seems to be a clear pattern of chieftains and kings identifying themselves as Danes.
On a related note the faction of Laithlinn is of course also to be found: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lochlann

We do not wish to step on anyone's toes, but simply follow the written sources. 

But again I must emphasise the focus is on the British Isles, and not a representation of the entire Scandinavian area.

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They were refereed to as the "Danes" because the Danes were the dominant faction at the time, most active in the west, followed by the Norwegians and then Swedes (which, seemingly because they were the third, but yet last "viking" nation, should be cut off...), but obviously not the only one. I don't think anyone has argued against this. If I'm not mistaken the Romans also refereed all nations beyond Germany as "Germanic" simply because they were not known to them. There's plenty of written sources in Sweden as well, above all the rune stones about the western journeys (much of the sources on paper were burnt down in the castle fire of Tre Kronor in 1697, which is a shame). And I suppose this DLC will cover the times of the Great Heathen Army invading the British Isles as well. That army consisted of mainly Danes, Norwegians and Swedes with leaders who were arguably part Swedish, like Ivar the Boneless. Then there's Björn Ironside who was in fact ruler of Sweden who also set to the British Isles. I feel like if Denmark and Norway is controllable with factions able to attack each other like in the other M&B games, it would be seemingly stupid to leave out Sweden, because then the focus is not only in the British Isles but also in Scandinavia. And I don't see how adding southern Sweden would somehow make the game worse, rather than adding more diversity to it.

But I guess the whole issue with having the complete viking nation not fitting in your map in a game about vikings, is the real thief here. I know it's too late for a change now, Sweden will probably never get added into the game, but you have to realize decisions like these will always be questioned.

Manu_La_Canette 说:

Dude, you don't even read Adorno... A game has to be cohesive, it doesn't make sense to enlarge the map too far from its center of attention (i.e. Britain).

Basically, as none of the Viking leaders in Britain were from Sweden, it doesn't make sense to have Sweden figured on the map at cohesion's cost. Even swedish soldiers were most probably always minorities in the ranks of invading forces in the West. Those who went in Britain or Normandy were Danes and Norwegians, in a far larger proportion than any other origin. We also know some cases of Polish Vikings, that is no reason to have Poland figured on a map focused on Britain. See the point?

There is a lot of proves speaking of the Eastern / Western destination of nordic raids and settlement operations along geographical distribution of peoples. Plus raids are a thing, invasions / settlement are another. Swedes obvisouly raided Britain at some point, but never invaded Britain as a political entity such as Kingdom or something: Norway or Danemark did. Just read serious historical books.

Sweden on the map would just move the focus of the game from Britain to Scandinavia, you must face that it doesn't make any sense in a gameplay perspective.

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I read what he said perfectly and I even admitted Sweden on the map could be difficult, but as far as I understood British Isles, Frisia, Denmark and Norway will be playable, so you can control these areas. Thus focus is also in Scandinavia if you can rule kingdoms there (but maybe you can't?). While Swedes might have had the smallest proportion of participants of Denmark, Norway and Sweden which were the viking nation, it was still considerable larger than the 4th and there's basically no reason to "cut them off" other than the mapping issue, but even then... Considerable "nations" that went to Britain were Danish, Norwegian and Swedish. So no, other from the issue with the map, I don't see the point.

If this game is during the time, Norway and Denmark were actual countries declaring wars as countries and not loose societies, sure. But is it? If it's organized viking attacks which brought men from whole central Scandinavia (Denmark, and southern Norway and Sweden) a part of Sweden should be represented. If the map can't handle the whole of Sweden, why not just have a part to represent it? Surely it could work having at least the west side looking at a map over Scandinavia. I think "Goths" and "Swedes" should be there, just like "Danes".

And I'm not trying to bash at this project, I'm simply making suggestions which would make the game better, in my point of view at least.

Adorno 说:

Recruitademt 说:

Inanch-Bilge 说:

They said if they include Sweden they would also need to include Baltic coasts.

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Why? The Swedish vikings went west as much as the Danes and Norwegians, the fact that the invasions were launched from Norway and Denmark doesn't really tell us much.

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It does tell us a lot. And I can tell this could turn into a long historical discussion. 
You must understand the map has limitations. Vikings travelled all around Europe, including (modern day) Spain, Italy, Ukraine - and Byzantium, for example.
We've chosen to focus on the first large conquests and settlements of Vikings in England. The early days of the Viking expansions.
Danish and Norwegian Vikings mainly travelled west, while the Swedish mainly travelled east. But obviously the armies could consist of warriors from all over Scandinavia.
However the chieftains of the Great Heathen Army were Danes. There's a reason it was called Danelaw and Danegeld, and most of England later came under Danish rule.

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It would not make any sense for Danes and Norwegians to travel to Sweden in order to launch an invasion from there, since Norway and Denmark has the open windows to the West. Therefore, there were no larger invasions from there. Swedes traveled to the launching points in Norway and Denmark instead, and they all went from there. That's why historians years back thought the invaders were only Danish and Norwegian, which is not true. Think of it like a huge country consisting of Denmark, Norway and Sweden. While people from the whole country would be gathered to go into war, the launching points of the invasions would go off on the side of the country which pointed towards the target. And there's no prove that Swedes went more to the east, in fact many stones there speaks for that they were very active towards the west also. For this same result, mane Danish and Norwegians participating in the travels towards the east which usually set off in Sweden. This is also widely accepted in modern research with DNA tests on viking remains on the British Isles. Without going further off topic, it's lately proven that Sweden had the most blonde vikings, while Denmark and Norway had more with red hair color etc.

I understand the mapping might be difficult, but wouldn't it be possible to just include the western side of Sweden and Scania etc at least to represent the whole of Sweden? Leaving such a significant part out in the viking nation is a little over the top asking me.

Inanch-Bilge 说:

They said if they include Sweden they would also need to include Baltic coasts.

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Why? The Swedish vikings went west as much as the Danes and Norwegians, the fact that the invasions were launched from Norway and Denmark doesn't really tell us much.

Playing a viking game and the whole viking nation/culture is not even in there.

DAS JUSSST SCHEEEAP!

I guess. I don't know that much about the viking culture. But I think that just because the settling operations took off from either Denmark or Norway doesn't mean there were just Danes or Norwegians (now, I know there were no Danes, Norwegians, Swedes etc, but just to simplify). That was just the set-off destination in an organized attack for people from all of Scandinavia. I mean, the Swedes traveled to Denmark and Norway before the invasions to set off, to go with them. Because it would not make sense to have these invasions take off from Sweden since then the Norwegians and Danes would have to travel East-to Sweden-to meet up, before going West. This has sometimes been confused in history books etc, claiming the settlers/vikings going west were only present day Norwegians and Danes, just because they took off from the viking lands facing West....

I just looked quickly at what I just said and couldn't even understand it myself.. I'm really tired right now, hope you understand (my English gets approximately 40% worse when I'm tired!). If you don't understand I'll rephrase it in some hours 

So Sweden is not included I guess (it said only Norway and Denmark in the "features")? Thought they went west against the British Isles as well,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England_runestones



I hoped for epic fjord battles between Norwegian and Swedish vikings.. 

Oh, I wanna be in this!

Time to bring up my axe again.. Oh, and my FRAPS!

I guess I showed up a bit late, cause I cant seem to do anything on TS

This_is_SWEDEN

Sign me up in the Lone wolfs for Sweden

WESTre 说:

Alright, from my servers:

隐藏

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Nice ones,

Btw Westre I would like to ask if it's possible to add items from the SP into your server which are missing? I would like those ugly Swedish hats to be replaced by Lifeguards hats

YourStepDad 说:

I saw a developer, Maxim Suvorov checking out this thread. Might just be be some hope for a wfas patch.

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Nah, he was just jumping by for a good ol' evil laugh.

QWW 说:

Recruitademt 说:

QWW 说:

RuiQi 说:

Hello forum ,

I have read a little on the two factions , the cossacks and the polish in that they both have good firearms as well as melee units ? To make it simple , which of the 2 factions would be recommended overall ? I prefer to mass ranged units though. Tired of hack and slashing in M&B warfare.

Also , in WFaS , are shields still viable ? I have read some posts about bullets/rounds being able to penetrate through shields , rendering it useless. Is it better to just stick with firearms and hide behind the men ? Due to this , is it better to concentrate on intelligence / charisma ? and just raise str / agi to whatever is required ?

Looking forward to the answers and with that , happy M&B-ing

Regards
RuiQi

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Sweden, best infantry, best musketeers and best ranged cavalry. Maybe throw a few Hussars from Poland in their too will you're at it.
But as for your question on it Poland from the two. Strong infantry and the best cavalry, not to mention decent musketeers.

Shields are mostly useless as bullets ruin them I suggest going for a two-handed sword just in case anyone gets to close.

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Lifeguards isn't better than Serduks?

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I did a comparison a little while ago here is what I found by looking into the file itself.

Serduk (veteran)

Level: 18

Stats:
STR - 11
AGI - 10

Proficiency:
1H - 130
FA - 165

Skills:
IF - 6
PS - 3
WM - 5
AT - 3

Lifeguard (veteran)

Level: 18

Stats:
STR - 11
AGI - 10

Proficiency: 
1H - 140
FA - 150

Skills:
IF - 4
PS - 3
WM - 6
AT - 2

Additional Notes:

Although the Serduk musket skill is higher the Lifeguards the Lifeguard has a slightly better musket. In this case by accuracy so a bot with accuracy seems about even. In melee Lifeguards win with a higher melee weapon skill as well as better melee weapons. The Serduk's armour is slightly higher then the Lifeguards.

My Opinion:

I personally would choose the Lifeguard, they are about even in shooting, and the Lifeguard wins in melee. Calvary constantly charges the back by just running through infantry forcing the musketeers into melee. So I would choose a Lifeguard although they are very close.

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Hm, cool. What's the point of having good "Weapon master"? Does it eff accuracy or anything? I know you need it to upgrade a certain skill but what else?

I wish I could find the stats for their muskets, do you know if one can find it anywhere in the files? Your post was deli btw And I agree with you that the lg is more balanced

Naah, I won't buy it until SiCH show some support for their games.

QWW 说:

RuiQi 说:

Hello forum ,

I have read a little on the two factions , the cossacks and the polish in that they both have good firearms as well as melee units ? To make it simple , which of the 2 factions would be recommended overall ? I prefer to mass ranged units though. Tired of hack and slashing in M&B warfare.

Also , in WFaS , are shields still viable ? I have read some posts about bullets/rounds being able to penetrate through shields , rendering it useless. Is it better to just stick with firearms and hide behind the men ? Due to this , is it better to concentrate on intelligence / charisma ? and just raise str / agi to whatever is required ?

Looking forward to the answers and with that , happy M&B-ing

Regards
RuiQi

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Sweden, best infantry, best musketeers and best ranged cavalry. Maybe throw a few Hussars from Poland in their too will you're at it.
But as for your question on it Poland from the two. Strong infantry and the best cavalry, not to mention decent musketeers.

Shields are mostly useless as bullets ruin them I suggest going for a two-handed sword just in case anyone gets to close.

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Lifeguards isn't better than Serduks?

no

There's more players in Warband and a lot in Napoleon.

WFaS have the smallest community of the three.

There's a module about the "Finnish winter war" try it out!

mureika 说:

Somewhere, in these forums, I read( don't know if this is true) that Sich had some kind of disagreement with Taleworlds about bug fixing and patches( if I remember it correctly), they had some kind of agreement that Taleworlds will fix or will help to fix bugs in WFaS. But Taleworlds did something to upset Sich, so they were like: f this! We're abandoning this game. Can't say, if it really was on Taleworlds forums, maybe it was on other forum....  But I visit so many, I can't really say......

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I've heard something similar.. Too bad.