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Laizenbh 说:

bunkorder 说:

Laizenbh 说:

I think the point is, he didnt make a sub mod and put it in AD 1257 page, he used almost everthing from 1257 and gave it a new name as it was his creation from scratch and now afaik abandoned the project as well...

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On the steam download and Mod DB page, it explicitly says that the mod is built around 1257. He did not take credit for that work.
It is essentially "1257 AD Plus", but why release it under the 1257 name when those creators stopped working on the project, themselves, a long time ago? Some of the creators even gave explicit permission to use code and assets. Would you rather this mod was never made, or that it was made while also crediting the mod it's based on?

As long as projects are credited, I see no issue in using their free, non copyrighted assets. If you don't credit, then sure, you deserve to be lynched by the mob. But what's the problem if you credit?

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His permission to use assets is contested by the guys who released the final version of ad 1257, and sub mods stick on their base mods normally. Also he's already working on another project and prob gonna leave this unfinished. And finally this is not "built around 1257" this IS 1257 copy and paste with a "new hat" and a lot of bugs.

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Basically your only issue is that he's including the 1257 files in the download. Literally it's a difference between downloading 1257 and then downloading a submod, or just downloading it altogether as one package. I don't really see the difference. You could say it's a matter of principle, but he literally gave full credit to 1257 for all of their work and is only taking credit for the work he has done on top of it. It's also not like he's making any money off of it. I have to agree with how Taleworlds has handled this.

Also just assuming he has abandoned the mod is silly. If you've been in the modding scene long enough with multiple games, you would know there are multiple mods out there that go on hiatus and come back in irregular intervals. Some never come back, some do. Three months without posting to this thread is nothing in modding time.

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Anyways, feedback for troycall. I feel like you added too much all at once. You might need to remove the features or start from scratch adding one at a time. Doing it methodically and testing out each new feature one at a time to ensure it is working properly is essential. I had to do this with each and every unit, each and every little change I made when I made a mod for Medieval II: Total War. One oversight could screw everything up and there were times I lost a lot of work because of one mistake. Backups are key.

The mod isn't as full of bugs as people claim, however. Most of the problems are minor, with only a couple that have really annoyed me or broken the game for me. The player character name reverting to a title constantly is the most annoying bug by far. The next worst is the disasters. While you did include an option to turn these off for the player, they turn right back on as soon as you exit that menu. The amount of damage a disaster does to one's small warband is pretty ridiculous, and it occurs too often. However, while it does basically break the current game, it's nothing loading the last save can't fix. After that, I'd say the main priorities are getting the constable working and getting the loot system working. Right now the constable does nothing (so no player spawned armies right now), and the autoequip system for companions isn't working (though this isn't game breaking. It just means you have to equip as in vanilla.).

Other than that, I haven't run into any huge issues. It's playing normally. The strategy map AI seems a lot better than it was before. Rather than the Roman Empire consistently getting crushed, they actually stand firm. The Golden Horde is actually a real threat to Europe now, using their hordes to full effect in conquering westward. I've seen them get as far as Sweden in a fellow modder's game (he's been playing a full long campaign without issues other than the same as what I've listed). The Crusader States can actually beat the Muslims on their own. These were things that consistently didn't happen in my 1257 playthroughs if I was not supporting those factions personally. The improved combat is a good edition as well, though I'm wondering if it can be edited and tweaked like in other submods I've seen (like the one that added the same combat system in A New Dawn). I will have to look into that as I don't remember how to do that. I love the fact that lords are killed and battle and captured and executed, as well as there being player death. This definitely needs to be expanded on. Having new lords like Biggus Dickus is a bit ridiculous, but I understand the use of placeholders. Emergent factions are awesome as well. I'd like to see that expanded on.

My only remaining criticism would be problems I had with 1257 in the first place, like how they screwed up the banners after reaching a certain version and never corrected them, and also how the map itself is rife with historical inaccuracies. The mod should really be set quite a few years earlier given how powerful the Latin Empire is in it. It was in its death rows by 1257 historically and didn't have nearly the territory is has in the mod. There's also still that matter of using the Constantinople scene for too many cities as I said before (Constantinople should be the only one using it). It would be nice to some factions as fully independent. The way they made Rum and Georgia vassals to Ilkhanate was ridiculous and misunderstands what happened historically between those factions. Finally, the largest issue that I only came to fully realize recently... go up and look at the Flanders region of the map. It's nearly empty. The powerful cities that were there historically just aren't there. Having them as vassals to the Holy Roman Empire and to France would be fine, but they need to be on the map.

*sighs* I wish I could put together a mod team for this, but I don't think enough people care about the issues with the 1257 mod. The final release came out and it was called finished, even though it had problems that were ignored no matter how much you pointed them out... I hope you continue to work on this submod, troycall. You did some good work. It just needs ironed out. Maybe dissected and put back together.

If you wanted to make nice with the people whining on here, then you would need to do is keep a log of the files you've changed and copy them into an archive for download once you've finished your work. I understand why you released the mod as you did. You probably got working on improving 1257 and then after all was said and done, you had changed so much you couldn't be certain what you had changed. You still wanted to share the mod so you released it as it was in your modules folder. I don't think these people understand how much work it would be to go back through every single last file to figure out what you had changed just to put it all in a separate package to soothe their self-righteous principles. But yeah, next time, it's something you want to do from the beginning because of people like that.

EDIT: I actually meant marshal (mispelled marshall in game still), not constable. And he is actually working fine. The manor population just had to get high enough. This would have worked exactly the same in 1257.

That said, damn, that storm thing really is game breaking. I forgot to save and it hit my army of like 140 and brought it down to 30. There's just no good reason to have that in the mod.

I just wanted to give my two cents on the modding controversy issue.

The fact is troycall is not taking any credit for DrTomas's work. Yes, you are really supposed to get permission in order to include assets from another mod in your mod. But let's think about this for a moment.

If troycall released this as a submod for 1257 (which it basically is), and only included files that he himself had modified, then he wouldn't be violating any generally understood modders' code. He got permission from Othr, which means he already has permission for a lot of the coding work. Other coding work that he does not have permission for would need to be replicated. But think about this, even then you would just be basing your new code off of what you want to replicate. It's a complicated issue, but for the most part including 1257 in the download is not much different than downloading 1257 and simply applying the new files to it. The former saves the user the hassle of having to download and install both separately. The latter is a matter of principle.

Secondly, I would like to point out DrTomas's behavior in general. Any time I gave feedback about 1257 (constructive criticism and bug reports), I was either talked down to or ignored by DrTomas. There was specifically an issue with the banners in 1257 that I brought up multiple times over the years (they were historically accurate in earlier versions, but not in later versions, including the final version, due to no one reassigning banners to the lords after new banners had been put into the game) that never got resolved. This is just one of many issues (that could have been easily fixed) that the mod still had even in the final version. I got the sense from talking to DrTomas that obtaining any permissions from him would be very difficult. I still think troycall should have asked for permission from DrTomas (and maybe he did for all we know), but the fact is that modders that refuse to give permission to use their assets to others are holding the modding community back in general. There are beautiful modding projects that have completely fallen apart due to the ego of one modder (I think I remember that is what happened with Team Gizka's mod for Knights of the Old Republic). It is likely DrTomas will never give permission to troycall now, even though this is the only mod effort that is making significant progress on improving 1257. I am very glad Taleworlds has not shut this mod down.

I will give feedback and suggestions as I play this mod. I hope you're a better listener than DrTomas was, troycall. From what I can see so far, you are. Having a mod team that is friendly to its players and listens to feedback is extremely important.

Alright, I've tested this submod long enough to give a first report I think.

The largest problem that sticks out like a sore thumb is the missing textures for much of the heraldic equipment. It will just appear invisible on anyone using it.

There are also UI problems. The UI in tournament isn't displaying correctly (I've gone ahead and turned it off as a result). The UI after a tournament round isn't showing correctly, and the UI for the military academy has the same problem (Nope, the military academy is fine. It's the same in 0.62.). The UI for changing equipment auto-upgrades for your companions also isn't working correctly, as you cannot click on apply to all and have to choose the settings each time you get a new companion. The UI for the chests in castles and towns is also bad, with the words still there but the background invisible.

None of these so far are game breaking and I've tolerated them.

The archer siege fix seems to have barely helped. I don't really notice a difference so I will try the normal New Dawn for a while to see if there's a difference. Thank you so much for making everything save compatible. I didn't like the modified AI at first, but after playing enough with it on I came to like it. I think I'll only turn it off for when I'm training the peasants in villages. The biggest improvement would be increased bow accuracy for sure, but to be honest right now that's the only draw of this submod for me. I think I will probably use it for my bow characters, but keep using normal New Dawn for my other characters.

Like someone else said, the game does get stuck when you talk to bounty hunters or glory seekers and the like in the field. It also crashed when I clicked on the upgrade tree for the Rhodoks.

As far as I can see, the main problem with this submod is likely that a lot of things have been edited without doing it properly, hence things like missing textures and errors here and there. If an error exists its because you didn't edit a related file that needed to be edited as well or you forgot to change the value of something that needed to be changed as a result of the edits, etc etc. M&B is finicky if you don't do things just right. Not trying to be overly critical here. I'm just saying you might want to start from scratch as far as the file edits. It's not so far along that you can't do that yet. If you run with what you have rather than redoing it, a lot of these problems are going to stay or more problems will pop up.

kuauik 说:

well its just been overlooked,in the sea of factions and constatnt rant about this and that,it slip through my fingers..i think the one thing that is the most accurate in this mod are the banners,i spent countless hours of researching those.I also replaced the harph with banners of the families present in the mod,although Tomas never got time to assign them properly

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Yeah, I noticed the Irish family specific bannees were assigned perfectly in 0.97. You definitely did a great job getting the correct banners; it's just a shame to see them assigned incorrectly in 1.04 through 1.13. It really throws off the historical immersion seeing O'Neill charging you with a horse with red hands and a surcoat with a red hand, but a deer on his shield.

I actually did find someone to help me with this. Basically we'll use the old 0.97 banners specific to that file, but edit it such that the "brown" banners used for the shields found in shops are still there. Given the assignment of banners was never changed, this immediately assigns the right Irish banner to the right Irish lord. I'll upload it as a fix for this specific issue if that is allowed.

I do have to ask if you know where the red hand on the green background came from, because I have not found one coat-of-arms like that. I'm actually from one of the original "Red Hand" families, so if that one really does exist, I'm quite curious about it. Whatever the case it is definitely inaccurate to see it all over Europe on random green Miles.

I remember the Tectonic Knights being a little bit different than the other orders in that they had an actual troop tree with advancement. So I think you could get Ritterbruder without a monastery, though a monastery would probably be faster (but more expensive). Just note that the amount of troops you can get from a monastery is limited. The most I was able to get for the Hospitallers was 10 sergeants and 4 chevaliers. They are worth the money in my Irish game, though.

As for longbowmen, you can recruit them as mercenaries in any city that starts out under English or Welsh control (so this includes Bordeaux and Dublin). So you could absolutely build an army of Teutonic Knights and Welsh longbowmen is you wanted to! I'm going to do a Teutonic playthrough myself eventually.

The units you can recruit depend on the location your recruit from. So let's say you are an Irish lord. Your Irish fief gives you Irish troops. But then let's say you take Mann. That fief will give you Scandinavian troops. With native recruitment you just need to go to the villages of the culture of troops that you want, but with Lance recruitment you need to actually own a fief of that culture if you want troops from that culture. As for crusader troops, you can recruit them by investing in a manor, building a monastery in that manor, and then talking to the priest to invite a knightly order into that monastery. All of this costs money. Then after a certain time you can ask the priest for the brothers' help, and you will get a few troops from the order you invited for free.

DrTomas 说:

hraktuus 说:

The other thing is I'm still seeing some guys with no thighs, and some javelins have the wrong texture after they've been thrown.

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In the battle or just in the party screen? If the latter - this can't be fixed.

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I went ahead and checked just now. I am not seeing anyone missing their thighs, so it must be just the party screen. Too bad that can't be fixed.

New glitch. I won a siege WITHOUT autoresolving, but all of my men are shown as wounded. So I have 0 men that can fight, even though the siege ended with me still having dozens of men on the field. I did get knocked out during the siege.

While I'm posting I might as well report a couple of other things.

Whenever you take a town or castle and take control of the garrison, once it is given to you as a lord you lose control of the garrison. I'm not sure if this is working as intended, but it is very inconvenient as any troops you gave the town or castle will be lost if you take control of the garrison again. This mechanic can also be exploited with towns, as you can continue to hire mercenaries with no limit when the town has control of the garrison, yet still only pay 3000 a week for the garrison.

The other thing is I'm still seeing some guys with no thighs, and some javelins have the wrong texture after they've been thrown.

And I am absolutely playing 1.04 now. So don't worry, this is all valid to the current beta.

EDIT: The siege glitch didn't happen when I took the same castle (Mann) again. And the one time it did happen was the only occurrence. Will report if a pattern emerges, but right now it seems like this is a rare glitch.

Cro-Gamer 说:

stevehoos 说:

JC LEON 说:

I reinstalled warband and want to use lastest version of ad1257

which verson must I to use??

must I install 1.03 version or use tortoise and install lastest svn version ??
which is more upadeted???

wich warband version I need ?? 1158??

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Use Tortoise version to install latest 1.04

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I used it, it installed the beta 0.97 version 
How do i get 1.04 ?

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Happens to a lot of us. You used the dev1257 link in the SVN guide rather than the anno1257 link at the beginning of this thread. Just do the same thing you did with tortoiseSVN before, but make absolutely sure the link you use is from this thread, having anno1257 in the link, not dev1257.

The Orthodox Priest in Orthodox manors is still misspelled Othordox.

Hmm. My manor in Castlerea has an invisible door that I can't pass through. I remember a door being here in 0.97. Possible manor expansion here? I see stairs going up, but I can't pass through to them because of the invisible door.

Just a little nitpick here. I noticed the Heater Shield and Knightly Heater Shield look exactly the same. I mean, literally there is no difference in the mesh and texture now. But the Heater Shield provides more coverage. So that doesn't exactly make sense.

Anyways, I've been doing nothing but picking at the bad things lately. The music is great. I am seeing a little more variety in swords, though it could still use more. I love some of the new scenes. I noticed there is fall damage now. lol I like the addition of some new locations, though I'm a bit sad to see the settlements, villages, and boroughs go. Overall the mod is very very stable. It hasn't crashed on me once and I haven't noticed one glitch.

To be honest, the mod doesn't need much work to be perfect. If the banners were fixed, the girls faces were fixed, new swords were added, and the map was changed to be historically accurate, then I would consider it basically perfect. Personally I would prefer different artwork, but that's just a matter of preference.

Ah, and I am disappointed with the new garrison system. I don't like how it defaults to auto-garrison even after you've changed it to manual garrison once you leave. Oh how I wish Warband mods would use With Fire and Swords's garrison and economy system...

EDIT: I forgot to mention. The only other thing for it to be perfect would for the cities in the Byzantine Empire to not all look the same. That scene is great, but imo it should only be for Constantinople. The rest should be a different scene, even if they are all the same. It gets tiring sieging Constantinople a dozen times in different locations.

I figured out the problem with the banners. In both 0.97 and 1.04, O'Neill is assigned the 401st banner. In 0.97, the 401st banner is the red hand. In 1.04, the 400th banner is the red hand, while the 401st banner is McCarthy's deer. In other words, it seems like no one has reassigned banners since 0.97!!! This potentially means several lords, not just O'Neill and McCarthy,  have the wrong banner.

So far as I can see, the 400th and 401st banners need to be switched so those lords have the proper banner, the red hand on green in the 402nd position needs to be replaced with mac Donnchada's historical coat of arms (as I said before, a red hand on a green background is in no coat of arms I could find, and I looked pretty exhaustively), and the rest of the lords need to be checked to make sure they have the correct banner.

Also, one more thing, I really think the red hand banner from 0.97 looks a lot better and more accurate than the one in 1.04.

Anyways, for now I am just going to replace 1.04's banners with 0.97's banners. I won't be able to update via SVN for the foreseeable future, so this is the only practical fix for me.

EDIT: Well, just replacing the banner textures didn't work, so I will just have to edit them directly.

EDIT2: Ah, it didn't work because 1257 banners are located in the std_banner file. Changing them now.

EDIT3: std_banners_t.dds is the specific file with the problem for the Irish lords. Whoever made the new banners in this file did it with no regard to whom the banners were assigned. While 0.97 isn't 100% historically correct in concern to banners, it at least assigns the red hand to O'Neill. Because of how many banners changed places in this file for later versions, many lords have the incorrect banner (not just O'Neill and McCarthy).

EDIT4: Replacing the file is enough of a fix for me for now, but it kills the historical banners since that file is where all the brown banners are. Replacing it makes many of the shields in the store have the Irish harp now! Anyways, I will edit it in my personal version after I learn how to edit it, but this really needs fixed for the final release.

Alright, I have gone through every possible family of the red hand I could find, and not a one has a red hand on a green background. If you are shooting for historical accuracy in this mod, you should replace that banner with a historically correct one. I can't provide pictures given being limited to my phone for internet, but I can provide links. If you need research on heraldry, I'm more than willing to help. It would be quite easy to find to correct coat of arms for all the Irish characters as Irish heraldry is well documented. And I know it isn't hard to change the banners. I could do it myself if only I had GIMP or Photoshop installed.

Okay, I understand, but see the edit. O'Neill and mac Carthaigh need their banners switched. O'Neill should have the red hand while mac Carthaigh should have the deer. And I'm not finding the red hand on green coat of arms anywhere. I've never seen an example like that outside of this game.

Well, I got someone else to download the newest svn version for me, and... all I can say is I'm disappointed so far. The first thing I noticed was the changes to the Irish banners. 0.97 had better looking Irish banners imo. The next thing I noticed was now all the women look horrible and way too similar to each other. The women's faces were way better in 0.97 imo. The map is still historically inaccurate. However, the worst thing by far is the "historical" banner system makes the game historically inaccurate. I was shocked to see Brian O'Neill, King of Tir Eoghain have a banner other than the famous red hand. He is THE O'Neill of the time. He would have had the red hand either as his banner or on his banner. Not to mention he holds Blarney Castle,  which is nowhere near Tir Eoghain. Is there no way to assign it so he always starts with Dungannon? Just like in Native where King Harluus always starts with Praven.

Anyways, I will start a new game without historical banners, because the O'Neill not having the red hand will bother me too much. One more suggestion. The Irish kings should have the title Rí, rather than king. It seems like everyone else has custom titles for their culture, so why not the Irish? If you need someone to research languages for you, I'm your man.

If you're wondering why I'm so picky about the Irish, it's because I'm an Ó Siadhail. We're descended from Niall Noigiallach (Siadhal was his grandson), and served as doctors and warriors under the O'Neill clan. We held all of Inishowen at one point, though by the time of this mod it was just the tip of the peninsula, iirc. Our banner is a red lion rampant on a white background, with a red hand in each of the two corners above and a red five pointed star at the bottom. ^^

Anyways, more feedback to come.

EDIT: There is no way to start a new game with historical banners initially turned off, and I also noticed the banners aren't staying consistent with their locations. This is extremely disappointing and quite immersion breaking. I will tough through it, though.

I've never once seen a red hand on a green background before... And a mac Carthaigh would have never beared the red hand as his banner. He wouldn't have been allowed to. Right now it seems you have the mac Carthaigh and O'Neill coat of arms mixed up. This really needs fixed.

Just one last piece of advice before I stop posting in this thread. After I retreated from Aberffraw and let my lords recover, the English made their predictable next move, laying siege to Clare Castle to retake it. Since the only reason I took it was to free the lords within, it did not matter to me if they captured it. However, this was the time to seize the opportunity to take Glasgow. I called my lords back on campaign, and because so many had been freed from Clare Castle, there were more than enough troops to take Glasgow with minimal losses. So now we are essentially the Kingdom of Ireland and Scotland, while the English are the Kingdom of England and Wales, though the Welsh are still surviving in Lancaster Castle which they took from the English early in the game. So while I have not united the Brythonic Celts (Welsh, Cornish, and Bretons) under our banner, I have succeeded in uniting all Gaels (Irish, Scottish, and Manx) under one banner. And that is a beautiful thing. I would post a screenshot it I could.

Anyways, it's been fun. I don't think my PC Internet will work for a while, so I will have to work on the proper AAR offline for the time being. But expect something around Christmas or February, I would say, though by then we might all be playing Doc Thomas's final final version.

EDIT: Ah, and the advice is essentially siege your enemies towns and fortresses while they siege yours. Trading a fortress for a town almost always means gain. At this point, we have 5 cities to the enemy's 5. Ireland has suddenly become an even match for the English.

DrTomas 说:

hraktuus 说:

I just thought of this. You can select inspect your properties in any city. However, it doesn't seem to do anything. You can click on the build buttons all you want. Nothing will be built. Is this a broken feature or does it have some other purpose?

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What kind of version are you playing? This has been long disabled and you seem repost some of the old bugs?

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I've been playing 0.97 beta as well. It is the SVN linked at the beginning of this thread. And last time I updated via SVN (like last month), nothing was updated. I thought the point of this thread was to report bugs and give feedback on the beta for your final final version. Anyways, sorry for the misunderstanding. Is 1.03 the version to play, or is there a beta version for your final final version linked somewhere in this thread? We should clear this up right now, because it looks like it wasn't just me that made the mistake of thinking the link at the beginning of this thread was the latest beta.

EDIT: Found the problem by reading through the thread. I have dev1257 rather than anno1257. So whenever I get Internet access again, I will download the correct SVN version. The question is... how did I get dev1257? I used the link from this thread... Will look into it.

EDIT2: Nope, my mistake. I'm betting I didn't use the link from this thread. When you look at the Complete Idiot's Guide for Installing 1257 via SVN, it shows dev1257 as the link. So I probably used that guide and typed that when I was following the steps to use SVN rather than using anno1257. Just note other people are making the same mistake. Some note should be put in the beginning of the thread to NOT use the dev1257 version so as to avoid anymore confusion. Otherwise, people will keep reporting old bugs.

I agree with you, but is there a way to get your own king to make peace with another king? I'm not independent. And yeah, at this point I really can't do much since auto resolve takes your troops down to 0 much of the time. And I did succeed in what I set out to do. It is time for this war to end if possible. I'll end the campaign as soon as I get my lords to safety. That said, all the English have managed to regain is Aberffraw and Pembroke Castle, and I don't care if they retake Clare Castle. But I really don't see what I can do to end the war. The most I can do is give my lords a breather.

EDIT: Hahaha, I just found out I'm using the wrong version. So a piece of advice to other newbies who might read this wanting to use the latest SVN version rather than the latest download version. Make absolutely sure you download the anno1257 version and NOT the dev1257 version. Anyways, that probably means the end of this semi-AAR. We shall see if I can get as lucky again once I get the latest version. I can still import my character, so no loss there! If I do get lucky again, I will do a proper AAR.

EDIT2: Argh! Right when I find out I have the wrong version, I find a Masterwork XIIIA Sword. *sighs* Well, hopefully I find one sooner rather than later in the latest version. It costs 174501 denars, but it would be worth every coin.