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Do you know how many years I've been playing with javs?

Many.

I love them, I'm still bad with them, and I'd be happy to shove one right up your butt!

Javs are awesome. They give you a little extra surprise capability with your melee build (I love a jav/2h/shield/1h setup).

On stupid dull siege servers I usually just go with javs and a 2h weapon, or just a 2h weapon. I don't get why anyone plays siege, and I definitely don't get why it's so popular when it's really just killfarming archers.

I had a similar thing happen. Two dudes were dueling on a TW Captain Death Match server, I joined and deployed a squad because, uh, that's what you're supposed to do, and they vote banned me. I was very ~wtf~ as a result.

Dunno why people feel the need to camp servers, it's annoying as hell.

Would prefer a simpler system where the low level lords swear fealty to one of the high level lords, and those guys swear to the king. They call their own mini campaigns and conquer stuff like that. If one of the high lords switches sides, his retainers jump ship with with him.

Player would work for one of the major lords, and then become a high lord once hitting a good renown/level. Could then use persuasion and relationship to grab minor lords under him/her. Have managing their relationships with one another serve as a high level tutorial of sorts for kingdom management.

In an actual kingdom, only the high lords matter, the player doesn't worry about the rest; those guys get fiefed by their high lords.

If the war ends while the contract is still on, you get the opportunity to end the contract early without pissing off the faction much. You can also keep it active. That way I can skip over to a new one if this one ends.

4x cost makes me happy, but I think .75 * cost + generous performance pay would be fine so long as the above is implemented. Forces the player to be active if they want serious benefit, rather than passively collecting a goodly sum without actually doing anything.

Contract duration needs to be dropped to one month from three. Contracts last too long. Offer to renew at the end. That way if I'm bored of the war I can quit it.


Finally, the enemy should occasionally try to hire you away if you're really faboo performance wise. This hurts your honor (is honor still in?) but doubles your income.

nox 说:

You have to keep in perspective that this was the temper of the times as well.

The men that fought with cloth uniforms and muskets did so because putting leather armor or even other heavier armor up until plate that would stop a bullet didn't keep them alive anyhow. 

They were also recruited en masse, trained in regimental fashion unlike earlier armies which relied on warrior traditions.

This particular game is interesting to me specifically because it is the renaissance transition.  Heavier weapons give way to fast thrusting ones, heavy armor gives way to lighter armor, and the musket and cannon become the primary tools of war on the battlefield over the next 100 years.

The firearm was the great equalizer, and this has shaped human politics ever since.

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Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey lady. Dude.  Cannon! Dude. Oh I know! I know I know I know I know I know – let’s add cannons!

Dude. I love cannons. I know! Spell it! C A… NNON. Cannon. Cannon.

Cannon Court. For people with cannon. Judge Add Cannon presiding. Bam. Guilty. Of being a cannon. I’m adding cannons.

nox 说:

What unit is this?  I agree that it seems odd that a unit would spawn without a ranged weapon if other units in the stack have ranged weapons.

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Polish mp unit German pike loads with a hammer (Chekan?) more often than a pike. There are a few other units like this.

Also we really need a command that forces melee for units. Janissaries went from awesome to awful with the change because they can't be forced to drop gun and charge; instead they **** around with gun until something is almost on top of them. And with their crummy armor they really can't afford to wait like that, it gets them murdered.

Did you guys fix the default gear on the Crimean mercs? The rifle started with a spear, and the inf with a gun; not super critical but very irritating.

Uh, turn on reflective FF, as on the official servers. They try to TK and self TK. Griefing stopped.

Siege stuff, if they open the gate you get a better fight anyway, so I consider that a plus rather than a minus.

Just export your dude and import him into a new game. After grabbing all your cash first. You'll find it's trivial to get back to where you were.

Muskets need a little toning down. Otherwise fine. I'd actually prefer their reload took a bit more of a beating than anything. Accurate is fine so long as they don't fire quite so frequently, giving us melee types an opportunity to slaughter them if they miss.

lotsofpaper 说:

I think you misinterpreted Aeon....

Not committing to the act of adding cannon...

To light the cannon is to commit to the act. In other words, releasing the game is lighting the cannon, with the act of war being replaced by the creation of a good mount and blade game.

So by releasing the game they consider themselves to be committed to making it right.

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By adding cannon.

The villagers already regularly go to town to buy stuff and sell stuff. Cheaper food in villages is probably a good idea for that because it lets them earn a profit in towns so they can buy stuff and increase prosperity.

Enterprise stuff was way more specific than what I was thinking. I was going for something more along the lines of generic investment. You put some money into improving farming, say, and it raises output of specific agri good but your money can disappear if the town gets captured or the economic situation goes south (aka random chance).

Your quest stuff doesn't really fit with an econ thread, but it would be nice to have more generic quests that find you. Like, people visiting your castle and asking you to do stuff. Would be especially nice if some story line quests used a messenger who showed up and waited in your fief. Just adds to the feel that this is a world rather than a game.

nox 说:

I know.  Transparency is the key to any complex system. 

I'm thinking that we'll probably have that be part of the in-game report system and maybe have some amount of what the player knows of a given lord contribute to it.  There are a lot of possibilities with that. 

That would be a great use for ladies, for sure.

"May I ask you a question?"
"Why yes, you may?"
"What do you know of {s54}?
...

"Oh I hear he's a terribly cruel man, but that he's so rich noone dares complain about it.  He's got everyone on a gold leash quite literally."

"Rumor is that he is deeply in debt, but his friends have very deep pockets."

etc.

Then when you look at the lord report, it would summarize that information explicitly.

or something.  Don't beat me up if that seems dumb, I am just throwing an idea out.

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Should work great. Bland enough to give you details, informative enough to keep you in the loop. Problem with it is you can't really use it on enemy lords, as their ladies will be hidden. Also, are ladies even _in_ WFAS? I thought they were taken out?

Mexxico has the economy well in hand, I'm excited to see what he comes up with next.  His actual work was better than I had intended to propose so I'm quite happy with that. 

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Awesome. I'm not sure I like making villages really cheap sale sites -- in WB, as I'm sure you know, they were high priced because villagers were supposed to be selling the cheap stuff to towns. Also, most likely, because the devs wanted you to buy your food at fewer locations and to punish you for your lack of foresight in campaigning.

Causing the player's troops to eat more frequently, or to eat 1:1 instead of 3:1, and then putting high volume food in towns (hard tack etc) with low volume stuff in villages would probably fix the ability to get food too easily on campaigns while still giving players an early option for trade. When I used that setting in WB it made large armies gobble through food (two units per eat period for 100 men).

I like the idea of investing in industry though.  There are a lot of possibilities there - such as creating both demand (for raw mats) and finished goods.  Even improving the available armors etc. by upgrading metalworks.

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Good that you're thinking about demand side, big omission on my part and an extremely good idea. Letting the player raise demand in a town would help enormously for developing their own trade network (say, investing in iron production in one town, metalwork in another, caravaning iron to the metal town and selling the tools). If you're going to allow that you might want to find a way to let the player set up looping caravans.

All that said, one of the other things that needs fixing that was also broken in M&B is that the mercenary income doesn't even cover costs.  The way I've fixed it in the past is that they will offer you a variable amount of retainer based on the troop strength you bring to negotiate, which should cover your troop costs per week.  On top of that you get paid for combat duty (the damage you do to the enemy), lord kidnappings, village razings and town/castle captures.

If you do a lot of damage you get combat pay, as it should be. 

For those of you who enjoy that path, this makes it a lucrative way to play the early middle game. 

Throw that in with a bunch of fun dialogues to cover various situations (such as a king who doesn't like you hiring you anyways because "I'd rather be holding the snake than having it thrust at me") and adopting the factions and banner of your hiring lord  and it's almost a little mini game in itself.

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If you're doing this, and I definitely encourage it, you should move the starting point for the quests further back. Lots of players have trouble with stuff like conquering towns, moving the steed or overthrowing Crimea. Waiting til the player has established him or herself as a mercenary and developed their income/level/gear would help enormously with reducing the irritation of quests that are, frankly, beyond the capabilities of the player at their current level. Maybe keep the basic quests in Z village, and then put a generic "you should look into joining a faction and developing your skills quest" onto the player's log. They go out for a while and do stuff, and then Clermont comes and finds them and offers guidance. "Poland suffers this, Cossacks that, and the Great Bear these. Join one and see how deep the rabbit hole goes etc etc". Would also have the neat side effect of preventing questions about whether factions like Sweden or Crimea have story lines (CRIMEA SHOULD HAVE A STORY LINE HINT HINT HINT BECAUSE THEY ARE AWESOME).

Would also be nice if mercenary employment duration was set to one month, with renewal offered at the end. One month is a short period of time, and gives the player a chance to try out a few factions before picking the one they like. There should also probably be a non-storyline method for gaining a crown, but I'm sure you guys are already planning that what with the talk of migrating over warband features.

You guys need some kind of intuitive in game way to tell if a lord is hurting for money other than the size of their army.

In fact, you need to make things a little more transparent all around, information wise. You model a ton of stuff but don't tell the player, so most don't even know what's going on behind the curtain. Maybe add in a screen to centers that lets you see what production facilities they have given sufficient trade skill? Such and such number of acres, so and so many breweries. That kind of info would go a long way toward making people happier.

Also, some kind of way to improve said facilities would be nice. Invest in production chains in a generic way that improves their output and lowers the price. Better return than bank for investment, but with a small chance of losing everything (reduced by trade skill) and a guaranteed loss of everything if center is taken.

Variety of that sort is good so long as there are compelling tradeoffs.

nox 说:

“He either fears his fate too much,
Or his deserts are small,
That puts it not unto the touch
To win or lose it all”

From Montrose's poem:
My Dear and Only Love

"Putting it to the touch" in this case meaning in the military parlance of the times to light the cannons, which is to say commit to the act.

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The act of adding cannon?

Lords already hire based on their fief income and level. Towns and villages have pop modeling and it is presented to the player in village desc; mostly it's folded into the prosperity system which is determined by trade.

Prices already have float values between fixed range. Unfortunately it's determined more by inventory rather than output from the carefully modeled production facilities that already exist in each town (and model everything from farm acreage to the number of breweries).

In short, based on my reading of the wb module system the game has a very complex economic model that is almost entirely hidden from the player.

If the game took the time to reveal what was going on under the surface, I have a feeling most people would be massively overwhelmed.

Good lord do you people actually fight these kinds of mismatches?

The AI is going to be sieging that city for 3-5 days. That is enough time to capture two cities, especially because you're entirely unopposed.

So, best case scenario is they take it, you take two other cities and then retake your old one once they've moved on. The worst case scenario is they get bored and leave (AI does this all the time) or you only have time for one. But since none of them will stay in your old city, you'll still be able to take it -- especially because the defenders will be crap.

Either way, it's a hell of a lot more sensible than standing around and fighting a last ditch battle that you don't even have to fight and instead spending those troops conquering new turf.

Fight smarter, not harder.

Since that guy is duplicating the other thread on this very topic, I will too.

Run the hell away and capture a new town or three while they're busy sieging that one.

2h Sword is a very effective option, especially in sieges, so long as you've got em wearing assloads of armor.

Like, they need to be wearing 40+ body for it to really be viable.

Once you hit about that range a lot of weapons start to whiff, so it's much easier to get off swings -- especially when supported by pikes. Since they'll take anything down with one or two hits using a two hander, well, it's pretty much game over.

So fit them out like the Armored Swordsmen the Swedes use, but only in sieges or if you intend to use them as a special heavy inf unit.

Tell your dudes to use pikes. They're epic when outnumbered.

And since most factions in that area either don't use pikes or use them in small numbers (or have really short ones? spears? lances? dunno) they'll win thanks to range.

Set up your companions with two handed swords and heavy armor and you will dominate like a mofo.