搜索结果: swing arc

Reepacheep 说:

TDM servers with team damage on would be a great start IMO; maybe in addition to the current ones we have so new players still have a place to learn

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NEW BATTLE TERRAINS-NEW HIDEOUT SCENES​

NEW ARMOR PIECES [v1.1.0]​

CAMPAIGN MAP WEATHER & WEATHER EFFECTS [v1.2.0]​

NEW VOICEOVERS - SIEGE ENGINE SOUNDS​

FOG OF WAR [v1.1.0]-FOG OF WAR IMPROVEMENTS [v1.2.0]​

SALLY OUT AMBUSH [v1.1.0]​

PUSHABLE SIEGE LADDERS [v1.2.0]​

MELEE COMBAT AI [v1.2.0]​

RANGED COMBAT AI [v1.2.0]​

TARGETING SYSTEM [v1.2.0]​

CAVALRY COMBAT AI [v1.2.0]​

FORMATION TARGETING [v1.2.0]​

AUTO BATTLE CALCULATIONS [v1.2.0]​

KINGDOM DESTRUCTION [v1.2.0]​

WAREHOUSES [v1.2.0]​

ALLEYS [v1.1.0]​

MULTIPLAYER​

TAUNTS [v1.2.0]​

SCENE DOWNLOADER [v1.2.0]​

MODDING CHANGES​

Rossa 说:

Just found a video testing damage, speed bonus and armor effectiveness(or the lack of it).

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Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James 说:

The issue is that the way the game makes you fight looters and other low tier bandits just isnt fun at all for the first few hours. If the first impression most players get is of a thoroughly unenjoyable kiting cheese match with looters and hideouts for 2 hours, that's a problem.

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Grank 说:

[...]

Besides that, I can see an issue with this animation during rider vs rider combat. If the swing comes from below like that it's likely to hit the opponent's horse first, especially if it's really close, which is very likely thanks to the shorter range of the weapon.

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Terco_Viejo said: Also consider that the iconography and historical sources that the Khergit-Khuzait faction draws from are of Asian/Oriental origin, making the glaive an exotic weapon both in appearance and use (if we compare them with those of all other factions)... at least in my eyes and it's because of all this together that makes me give it "more plausibility" than other 2h/polearms wielded on horseback.

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five bucks 说:

隐藏

1: Callum has actually said TW aren't going to make massive changes to the armor system. The most we can hope for is alterations. Bear in mind the stage of development we are at. Duh has said there are people at TW who are receptive to the idea of reducing ranged damage, but something like making every single sword in the game useless? Do you think they will do that?
2: Even with such a system, Glaive would still be the best combination of speed, length and damage of any cutting melee weapon. And cutting melee weapons are what most top tier troops use for melee combat.

1: Removing the glaive would not kill the theme of the troop, because its theme is "best horse archer in the game". Having a glaive is a cherry on top, an unnecessary one at that.
If the theme is "troop that can do literally everything well", then that's a bad theme which should be discarded.
2: Khuzaits are meant to be Gokturks/Khazars/Kipchaks/Avars etc, first and foremost. Mongolians are only a part of the inspiration of the Khuzait faction, which is a broad pastiche of Central Asian peoples. They are certainly not meant to be Chinese or "Samurai". Mongols did not exist in Europe in the time period Bannerlord is aiming for (600-1100). They were still localized to the area of modern day Mongolia, quite a long way from Europe.
3: Lances were more common among the Mongols than glaive-like weapons; so if Mongol inspiration was the goal, then they should lose the Glaive and get a lance instead!

4: I am certainly not asking for the culture to be removed. That is an absolutely ridiculous strawman.

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1: Callum has actually said TW aren't going to make massive changes to the armor system. The most we can hope for is alterations. Bear in mind the stage of development we are at. Duh has said there are people at TW who are receptive to the idea of reducing ranged damage, but something like making every single sword in the game useless? Do you think they will do that?

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Terco_Viejo 说:

I have been reading all your comments regarding the glaive and I would like to comment on certain aspects.

Personally I see the glaive khuzait as an exotic weapon which is part of that constructed "identity". Therefore, without going into historical considerations, my opinion is to go for the glaive as much as the panoply available.



That said:

1. Weapon itself:

As many of us have pointed out (Bluko88's latest examples being a case in point), there is an obvious problem with the damage that this type of weapon does, especially on horseback...a collateral effect of an inconsistenced aplication of damage/protection formula.​

​

It is also notorious the excessive size of this type of weapon, highly disproportionate... that's why many players have it as a meta weapon (combination of considerable length + exorbitant damage).​

2. The horseback attack animations:

I've commented in both the MP and SP sections (both in comments and threads), the swing animations with this type of weapon are a real aberration of biomechanics. Taleworlds reused the swing animations with 2h/staff on foot by carrying them the same way in the horseback versions instead of creating a consistent set suitable for this type of action.​

​

Swinging polearms the way it's implemented is a joke... neither swords at 2h nor axes at 2h should have that handling on horseback with both handling and speed penalties applied to them. Also surprising are the obtuse swing angles, which allow a totally disproportionate hit window.​

In my opinion, Bannerlord should have this same kind of animation for the glaive and other types of swingable horse weapons within the lower hit action windows.

Here is an old video test where the swing arcs and the length/aesthetics of the weapon were modified to look more realistic (imho). Sadly nothing can be done with animations back then.

source​

Unfortunately and despite having tried it here...here...or here... if Taleworlds hasn't reacted yet it's either because they don't care or they don't see a problem with it; sadly for many of us... it's too late for native and it's final build.

With rectified animations out of the equation (plausible) the only hope is to apply usage penalties for these types of weapons on horseback (less speed handling+ less damage + reduced swing polearms arcs + reduced shaft length) and deprive these KG types of units of so much armour advantage.

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Grank 说:

This reminds me of a gripe I have with the other side of the horse. Infantry can't do a diagonal swing like this to efficiently take down a rider. You generally attack from a little bit to the side to avoid getting tackled by the horse. In that scenario, a vertical swing needs a high degree of accuracy to land a hit on a moving rider, while a horizontal swing will likely hit the horse instead unless you're swinging a really long weapon. One of the reasons why a long spear is great at taking down riders is because it allows you to aim straight at the rider. However, I can't think of a good control scheme to facilitate diagonal swings while still keeping both the vertical and horizontal ones. If we use mouse movement alone, it feels like the movement range for each swing will be too narrow.

Besides that, I can see an issue with this animation during rider vs rider combat. If the swing comes from below like that it's likely to hit the opponent's horse first, especially if it's really close, which is very likely thanks to the shorter range of the weapon.

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Alyss 说:

Even with its flaws, cRPG made bannerlord fun, something that TW never could do.

Imo some simple tweaks (and it seems most of them are coming which is even cooler) could make the mod even better:
- Remove Menav and glaive from cav (the arc of the swings is just so broken)
- Add cooldown to couch lance
- Reduce horse speeds
- Increase crossbow reloading speed
- Add strength requirements to crossbow (and not 6, more like 12-15 for the good ones)
- Reduce jareeds dmg
- Remove board shield from cavs
- Add flags to maps
- Make teams based on a KD average (Cavs have highest K/D so this will spread them more evenly)

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And I feel like at times this customization system goes pretty much against what Taleworlds envisioned when they introduced and defended the class system we have, one of the supposedly strong points of this troop class system was that we should be able to very quickly what we are up against by just having a look at the appearance of an enemy [...]

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jon01 说:

Here are some of my suggestions for a Warband-style mod:

Chambers
I believe they worked in WB if you were in the beginning part of a readying animation as the enemy's weapon was hitting your body, and if you're facing towards them; it was simple but effective; BL changes this by making it based on weapon collision instead, which might sound logical on paper, but in practice the functionality is underwhelming, and it can ironically result in more unrealistic-looking lucky chambers happening at illogical angles

Swing arcs
Try to make it so that attacks don't get stuck behind you; just reimplementing Warband's animations straight-up would be a decent upgrade; holding a left swing and moving forward in BL looks awful in particular; the current swing arcs aren't suitable for a broader range of environments (especially closed areas), which might face further problems in future custom-made maps (but are a problem even in TW's maps)

Stances
This technically might involve skill, but only in the same way that juggling while riding a unicycle and balancing an umbrella on your nose is skilful; I think it's horrible for groupfighting; it feels like an unnecessary, inelegent feature; and it's funny that TW's defenders were once saying "yeah it's a bad idea but it has zero effect", yet various effects have since come to light

Directional shields
For melee it's okay, but the shield should more reliably protect at the front against projectiles (this is a "gameplay > realism" argument); if you've bought a shield, equipped it, held RMB, pointed the camera at the archer, the shield ought to work, otherwise what's the point? it's cheap and unfun if you can shoot around it easily, and there are other solid ways archers can get shots in instead; there may also be problems with hit detection in melee, I remember there could be weird moments where you'd hit someone's back yet their shield near the front magically/unfairly absorbed the hit; the same can happen with cavalry shields

Kicks
They're somewhat fine, but they should only connect if they hit your centre body (not your hand or shield), which right now can sometimes increase their range bizarrely; counter-kicking is good (it was possible in WB too); but in BL you can't jump over kicks, which was really fun and epic in WB; it's my impression that WB used something like an "isGrounded" check to see if you could be kicked; right now in BL you instead just "blob" in midair if you get kicked, and your momentum completely stops, which doesn't feel any more realistic or fun or polished

Jumping
In BL jumping is extremely lame, especially for a fully 3D game that has a lot of verticality in its maps (battlement walls, slopes, ramps, ladders, stairs, etc.), which will become even more prevalent with future custom-made maps; I liked how WB had Insurgency's approach for jumping, where it did what a jump is supposed to do (and didn't gimp it) yet you couldn't constantly do it (like CS's bunnyhopping) because of a cooldown timer, which it shared with kicking; BL's physics have an unrealistically weird floaty feel; this and other things (e.g. the ground touch after a short fall) unnecessarily make soldiers seem like 80-year-olds with arthritis rather than warriors

Edges
When you jump close to an edge, your jump is more than halved; I don't know whether this is a result of a rookie mistake relating to an "isGrounded" issue (like when beginners try to make a platformer) or a deliberate feature for the sake of supposed realism (because jumping while half off an edge might look weird), but for the sake of "gameplay > realism" (and for more WB-style gameplay) this should be reverted

Foot movement
Every single time I watch a stream of BL again after a while, the infantry movement strikes me as very poor quality, dinky and sluggish; even just for visual's sake I'd want to improve it, but for gameplay too it's like they tried making it more realistically "weighted" despite that overall it just makes characters seem strangely fat, gimped and rickety, as though moving around with molasses

Rotation
In WB's MP (not SP) the body would sharply follow the camera rotation when idle, but slow down when attacking or doing other things; in BL the rotation isn't as bad as WB's SP but a lot worse than WB's MP, since the character stupidly stands there for a second before turning (slightly); for a Warband-style mod I think the rotation should be copied directly; I can't think of anything right now that would improve upon that

Weight
WB opted for a more universal speed across all classes (possibly with very minor difference based on armour/equipment) because it was proven during tests more than 12 years ago that bigger differences of speed leads to trolling and annoying gameplay; kiting can become all too easy and people can delay rounds just by running around

Horses
BL's double-tapping feature for cavalry feels pretty good, but I'd hope something can be tweaked to make it less abusable; it might need a cooldown timer (especially the "yah" sound), so it can't be spammed constantly; I liked how horses in WB would more easily rear up when bumping into things (since it created a bigger need for awareness, so they can't just be treated like bumper cars); one of the worst aspects about BL is how cavalry can slide you around as if you're on ice; it severely messes up the gameplay and looks rubbish

Spears
Make anti-cavalry more fun to play; spears should be less floaty and more precise; make sure it's just as "easy" to rear horses as it was in WB; make it so you can rear horses while jumping (not necessarily realistic but it's fun, and it makes spears more versatile against cavalry); spears can end up a little OP in melee sometimes, so maybe something can be done about that, but the fun of anti-cavalry is the main priority; someone mentioned something about blocked stabs stunning you for a while, which might be important

Overhead thrusts
I think these are fine, and it's one of the nicer additions; it's not ideal that it can be harder to read whether it's an up or down stab in the heat of the moment, but it's not too bad either; I'm not that fussed about polearms having side swing attacks but it can be fun sometimes

Weapon stun
It's too excessive and annoying; it makes it feel like the game stopped working when it happens; maybe reduce it to just shield stunning with a held polearm overhead

Horse archers
Just don't include them (at least not for competitive); there've been discussions about how to possibly balance them going literally as far back as 2005 on these messageboards, but it's just a massive waste of time, since their entire concept is fundamentally broken for anything except a cheap SP power-fantasy where bots won't complain if you abuse it (and Captains too); maybe the Khuzait can still exist if balanced viably in other ways

Archers
I don't play this class often, but the last time I tried it in BL, it felt awful; so hopefully it can be improved to make it more fun, yet still make sure it's not easily annoying or overpowered; IG had to limit the class to 4 or 5 per team (with 50 people playing); make sure arrows don't penetrate shields, whether it's a bug or an intentional feature, it's not a good/fun feature for MP

Camera problems
Make it so releasing the tilde key makes the camera instantly go back to default view; BL's slower camera rotation adds nothing but maybe a smoother presentation for casual console gamers who argue "cinematic > gameplay"; any other functional improvements to how the camera interacts with obstacles would be good; WB's camera was pretty much ideal

Item selection
Either include an improved version of WB's gear shop (with balance and interesting variety) or vastly improve BL's system so that you're not forced to play as a pathetic peasant in baggy trousers with an elf hat choosing between either a shield or spear; provide a decent mid-build that you can always afford, and make upgrading feel satisfying yet not OP

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jon01 说:

Here are some of my suggestions for a Warband-style mod:

Chambers
I believe they worked in WB if you were in the beginning part of a readying animation as the enemy's weapon was hitting your body, and if you're facing towards them; it was simple but effective; BL changes this by making it based on weapon collision instead, which might sound logical on paper, but in practice the functionality is underwhelming, and it can ironically result in more unrealistic-looking lucky chambers happening at illogical angles

Swing arcs
Try to make it so that attacks don't get stuck behind you; just reimplementing Warband's animations straight-up would be a decent upgrade; holding a left swing and moving forward in BL looks awful in particular; the current swing arcs aren't suitable for a broader range of environments (especially closed areas), which might face further problems in future custom-made maps (but are a problem even in TW's maps)

Stances
This technically might involve skill, but only in the same way that juggling while riding a unicycle and balancing an umbrella on your nose is skilful; I think it's horrible for groupfighting; it feels like an unnecessary, inelegent feature; and it's funny that TW's defenders were once saying "yeah it's a bad idea but it has zero effect", yet various effects have since come to light

Directional shields
For melee it's okay, but the shield should more reliably protect at the front against projectiles (this is a "gameplay > realism" argument); if you've bought a shield, equipped it, held RMB, pointed the camera at the archer, the shield ought to work, otherwise what's the point? it's cheap and unfun if you can shoot around it easily, and there are other solid ways archers can get shots in instead; there may also be problems with hit detection in melee, I remember there could be weird moments where you'd hit someone's back yet their shield near the front magically/unfairly absorbed the hit; the same can happen with cavalry shields

Kicks
They're somewhat fine, but they should only connect if they hit your centre body (not your hand or shield), which right now can sometimes increase their range bizarrely; counter-kicking is good (it was possible in WB too); but in BL you can't jump over kicks, which was really fun and epic in WB; it's my impression that WB used something like an "isGrounded" check to see if you could be kicked; right now in BL you instead just "blob" in midair if you get kicked, and your momentum completely stops, which doesn't feel any more realistic or fun or polished

Jumping
In BL jumping is extremely lame, especially for a fully 3D game that has a lot of verticality in its maps (battlement walls, slopes, ramps, ladders, stairs, etc.), which will become even more prevalent with future custom-made maps; I liked how WB had Insurgency's approach for jumping, where it did what a jump is supposed to do (and didn't gimp it) yet you couldn't constantly do it (like CS's bunnyhopping) because of a cooldown timer, which it shared with kicking; BL's physics have an unrealistically weird floaty feel; this and other things (e.g. the ground touch after a short fall) unnecessarily make soldiers seem like 80-year-olds with arthritis rather than warriors

Edges
When you jump close to an edge, your jump is more than halved; I don't know whether this is a result of a rookie mistake relating to an "isGrounded" issue (like when beginners try to make a platformer) or a deliberate feature for the sake of supposed realism (because jumping while half off an edge might look weird), but for the sake of "gameplay > realism" (and for more WB-style gameplay) this should be reverted

Foot movement
Every single time I watch a stream of BL again after a while, the infantry movement strikes me as very poor quality, dinky and sluggish; even just for visual's sake I'd want to improve it, but for gameplay too it's like they tried making it more realistically "weighted" despite that overall it just makes characters seem strangely fat, gimped and rickety, as though moving around with molasses

Rotation
In WB's MP (not SP) the body would sharply follow the camera rotation when idle, but slow down when attacking or doing other things; in BL the rotation isn't as bad as WB's SP but a lot worse than WB's MP, since the character stupidly stands there for a second before turning (slightly); for a Warband-style mod I think the rotation should be copied directly; I can't think of anything right now that would improve upon that

Weight
WB opted for a more universal speed across all classes (possibly with very minor difference based on armour/equipment) because it was proven during tests more than 12 years ago that bigger differences of speed leads to trolling and annoying gameplay; kiting can become all too easy and people can delay rounds just by running around

Horses
BL's double-tapping feature for cavalry feels pretty good, but I'd hope something can be tweaked to make it less abusable; it might need a cooldown timer (especially the "yah" sound), so it can't be spammed constantly; I liked how horses in WB would more easily rear up when bumping into things (since it created a bigger need for awareness, so they can't just be treated like bumper cars); one of the worst aspects about BL is how cavalry can slide you around as if you're on ice; it severely messes up the gameplay and looks rubbish

Spears
Make anti-cavalry more fun to play; spears should be less floaty and more precise; make sure it's just as "easy" to rear horses as it was in WB; make it so you can rear horses while jumping (not necessarily realistic but it's fun, and it makes spears more versatile against cavalry); spears can end up a little OP in melee sometimes, so maybe something can be done about that, but the fun of anti-cavalry is the main priority; someone mentioned something about blocked stabs stunning you for a while, which might be important

Overhead thrusts
I think these are fine, and it's one of the nicer additions; it's not ideal that it can be harder to read whether it's an up or down stab in the heat of the moment, but it's not too bad either; I'm not that fussed about polearms having side swing attacks but it can be fun sometimes

Weapon stun
It's too excessive and annoying; it makes it feel like the game stopped working when it happens; maybe reduce it to just shield stunning with a held polearm overhead

Horse archers
Just don't include them (at least not for competitive); there've been discussions about how to possibly balance them going literally as far back as 2005 on these messageboards, but it's just a massive waste of time, since their entire concept is fundamentally broken for anything except a cheap SP power-fantasy where bots won't complain if you abuse it (and Captains too); maybe the Khuzait can still exist if balanced viably in other ways

Archers
I don't play this class often, but the last time I tried it in BL, it felt awful; so hopefully it can be improved to make it more fun, yet still make sure it's not easily annoying or overpowered; IG had to limit the class to 4 or 5 per team (with 50 people playing); make sure arrows don't penetrate shields, whether it's a bug or an intentional feature, it's not a good/fun feature for MP

Camera problems
Make it so releasing the tilde key makes the camera instantly go back to default view; BL's slower camera rotation adds nothing but maybe a smoother presentation for casual console gamers who argue "cinematic > gameplay"; any other functional improvements to how the camera interacts with obstacles would be good; WB's camera was pretty much ideal

Item selection
Either include an improved version of WB's gear shop (with balance and interesting variety) or vastly improve BL's system so that you're not forced to play as a pathetic peasant in baggy trousers with an elf hat choosing between either a shield or spear; provide a decent mid-build that you can always afford, and make upgrading feel satisfying yet not OP

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Piconi 说:

I don't really play the Multiplayer because of everything it is turned into, but i'm really glad to see you back @Klausolus , your wall of text here reminds me on some pretty times of hope for MP, not so long ago.
Welcome back !

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Terco_Viejo 说:

@Klausolus Good to have you back!

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Terco_Viejo 说:

隐藏

While it is true that it is undeniable to attribute some progress to Taleworlds, basically and as everyone knows a defining phrase would be one step forward two steps back™. Because of that stubborn closed-mindedness in certain aspects of design we still have the same problems we had during the closed alpha-beta, the first months post EA and now... how much more could have been done? how much more could have been done to squeeze that wonderful testing platform that was the master server of Mister out of time with that overflowing and fluid synergy dev-fan seasoned? It hurts my soul to think about it...

As for the balance problems... what can I say that hasn't been said in the tons of feedback from the community... and to this day there are still the same problems with the combat system (swing arcs... horse weapon hitting inaccuracies...etc) - It's a pity that NIN3 took the reins so late... now (with all due respect to the new dev in charge) there is nothing more to harvest in this wasteland.

As for the class system... what to say... they didn't even try to look for hybrid/other solutions approaching the warband system... they just stick to their guns. And as you rightly say...



...this is where I also put my foot down... the implementation of their customization system goes against what was intended to be the goodness of that system before... it's something which is beyond any sensible comprehension.

The passive perks were the final nail in the coffin... hated and warned about since before its gestation I dare say... but them, went to the end.

If the combat system is going to stay as it is and everything else too, the only thing left for Taleworlds to do is to fix the crashing servers issue once and for all and provide a stable and quality platform; the community will do the rest (again) because there is nothing more to do here with what the native has to offer... they didn't want to do it for more than three years (pre launch alpha beta period + post EA) I don't think that's going to change overnight.

A decimated and fragmented MP community is the result of this long and tiresome journey.

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-Horris- 说:

Like mentioned before, a dev at Gamescom mentioned that they are 'pretty happy with the state of multiplayer'.

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