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Thank you for the continued effort to make our lives easier, Dejan (and the rest of the team of course). I know we're not the easiest to please, but these changes contain several major steps in the right direction, that already help us out in massive ways.

It's been two months since we ramped up the development of Full Invasion 3, and we've been making great progress. Though we're not ready for a public test yet, we figured we'd share some of the features we've been working on so far!

Classic Loadout system​

One of the first orders of business was creating a new way to select classes and equipment in the mod. In the Native module, Bannerlord makes use of a perk based system, in which players select two perks to "customize" a class, leading to only a handful of variations. We were always determined to remove this system in favour of a system more in line with the possibilities in Warband.

While we were working on this, we found out that Bannerlord does not even take a look at the stats of the armour you are wearing! Instead, the class and perk combination completely determines your armour value and movement speed.

The system we made as a replacement for this is currently completely functional, and works just like it did in Warband, with some visual improvements:


Classic Loadout system in action

Basic Invasion system​

In order for us to have an actual game, we of course need an Invasion with an objective! This core system is still under development, but the basic parts (spawning the AI in groups, determining when to spawn which groups, etc) are in place.

There are several improvements in this area that Bannerlord allows us to make compared to Full Invasion 2:

• First and foremost, bots can be divided into formations, which can each have a different goal. While we spawned bots in separate groups in Full Invasion 2, they did always end up in a single blob of animosity. This system allows us to keep groups separate, increasing the strategic difficulty of the mod.
• Banners for bots! Bannerlord supports special banner carriers (well, sort of. It will support them in a future release), which we can use for the bot formations.
• Bannerlord allows us to set actual objectives for bot formations, other than "kill everything that breathes". This means the bots can attempt to destroy certain objectives, capture flags, or attempt to hold points. This greatly increases the variety of ways to play the mod, and has given us a lot of ideas that we're very excited about.
• Bots can make use of actual siege equipment now, which, if nothing else, is just plain awesome.

We've done a lot of work in this area so far, but we're still working on improvements.


A group of bots being transported across the sea, with a view of the Invasion Progress bar.

Invader transports​

One of the more exciting new additions is the use of transport vehicles by bots. These transports are fully destructible, and allow the bots to ride each other around, give them mobile shelter, or allow them transport across a sea!


Invaders attacking using transports

To do before the first public testable release​

There are still quite some features that we want to develop before we create a first public test release. Including these features in the first release will allow us to have a first version that already accurately portrays what the core of the mod will play like.

The following features are still in development, and will need to be finished before we can make a public test release:

• A flag capture system, allowing bots to capture certain areas of the map. This will tie into the "lose" condition of the mod: bots will attempt to capture flags, which will reduce the spawn options of the players (more or less like how the Siege gamemode in Native works).
• A progression system for players, allowing them to improve their equipment and class over the course of the game. We have a unique system in mind for this, quite different from previous editions of the mod, which we're very excited about. We'll create a different article specifically about this at a later point, to fully explain what our plan in this area is.

There are several other small improvements that we're working on in the meantime (better UI, extra equipment options, health restoration, etc), which will also likely make their way into the public test release.


Concept art for the Begotten, a type of demon found in the Arcane Empire.

If you would like to stay up to date with our progress, please join us on our Discord server! We regularly post sneak peeks there of what we're currently working on.

Updated the OP now that we're officially working on the mod!
Here is some footage from the latest closed beta test we ran:

Dejan said:

Modders can now define & add different races like Orcs, Elves,... through the skins.xml file. Custom skeleton support has been added for humanoid characters.

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Will this be possible in multiplayer for player characters at a later stage, or will that remain hardcoded like in Warband? Warband assumes the player character always uses one of the default skeletons (male or female) in multiplayer, and it is impossible to assign other skeletons to them. This severely limits the scope of what is possible in multiplayer. Having the option to change this in Bannerlord would be a massive improvement.

Wulfric said:

You should instead cross out the old expectation dates, rather than replacing them with the new expectations so that people who see this for the first time get the full story. Keep this in mind for the next time in 2024.

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Good idea, updated to add my original estimate.

K700 said:

Dropbox - File Deleted - Simplify your life

www.dropbox.com

FI2 Osiris have bug in troops.txt

Code:

trp_invader_mordor_dead_man_of_dunharrow_b Dead_Man_of_Dunharrow Dead_Men_of_Dunharrow 0 15728640 0 0 37 0 0
  2976 0 2978 0 2980 0 2982 0 223007451985306231415357182726483615059804160 0 2986 0 2988 0 2990 0 2992 0 2995 0 2997 0 2999 0 3001 0 3003 0 3005 0 3007 0 3009 0 2314 0 2318 0 2320 0 2322 0 2326 0 2726 0 2728 0 2730 0 2732 0 2734 0 2738 0 2741 0 2749 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0
  13 5 4 4 8
 200 200 200 200 200 200 200
0 0 0 48 675840 0
  17179869185 1315051091194281984 1835136 0 68702720518 5615707260354297855 2031609 0

223007451985306231415357182726483615059804160 - obviously incorrect value for item

I include a fix in files for wse2, but this information needs to be conveyed to the authors of the mod.

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I fixed that issue in the source code, thanks.

Is this link something I can share with my community? If so, what do they have to do with it and what does it change about the experience?

Edit: Also thanks @Eärendil Ardamírë for letting me know about this ?

Namakan said:

time to update the title I guess @Maroon

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Updated, including the timeframe reasoning.

Happy one year anniversary

Dejan said:

In regards to multiplayer, the "Statement Regarding Plans For MP Vol.5" has indeed been posted a while ago but that combined with our "Future plans" post should give you an accurate idea of what we're working on and what you can expect to come in the next patches.

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Right, those tell something of what the next patches will be focused on. My main question here is: are those the complete plans for multiplayer?
Because right now, the future plans lists the following things that aren't implemented yet:

• Ranked matchmaking
• Spectator mode
• Voice chat
• An MVP system
• Changes to several mechanics like flag capturing, score calculation, the scoreboard, perks, etc
• Single life mode
• General improvement

However, if those are the only future features multiplayer will have, we are left without mod support, without custom dedicated servers, without a healthy base for a competitive scene, without most of the features that ensure Warband's MP lives on today.

I know you have made plans for some of these additional features, so I know there is more to TW's plans for MP. After all, @NIN3 commented on this a few days ago:


So can you please share with us a broad idea of what multiplayer will look like at Bannerlord's full release, and once all your plans are implemented? NIN3's comment proves there is a difference between those two things, and the MP modding community (and the hard core of MP players) are desperate to know what they can expect of Bannerlord's MP. Because the current state of MP is somehow even worse than when it launched, and that was already extremely far from what it needed to be.

Dejan said:

A lot of effort from developers is going into this game and it means a lot to us to see you enjoy Bannerlord. The lack of communication since the start of January is my fault as I was on vacation, I am back now though so let's get it going again.

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Hope you had a nice vacation, Dejan. It seems like your (you personally I mean) focus as a community manager is on the modding side, which is nice to have, but could you please explain why we've had mostly radio silence in the multiplayer department from the entire dev team? The latest "Plans for MP" thread is nearing its 1 year anniversary, and while there have been those balance patches, TW has never communicated what multiplayer will look like when it's done. Could you please shed some light on what those plans are, or why TW is not communicating their plans?

Einarcf said:

Just hope somehow we get servers before people take a 2nd look at this game come release

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Server files are definitely not happening before full release (they stated this several times), but I also think calling the full release a "2nd look" is pushing it a bit. Sure, there will be a temporary bump of players, but there's no way it can be compared to its initial release.
But yeah, that's the real fun part, isn't it? Proper MP matters so little to them that they won't even ensure it works properly before giving the green light to the (relatively) biggest influx of players they can muster.

For those who don't know what this topic is about.

NIN3 said:

I strongly disagree with the flag mechanic being worse, for me that new mechanic is one of the improvements of Bannerlord over Warband. In Warbands battle there were also 3 flags really, as in 3 random flag locations and one would spawn.

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I get this, but at the same time, having the Skirmish flag system kind of moves the focus of the mode from fighting to map control. In Warband (especially in NW), Battle was about out-fighting your opponent, with the flag spawning as a measure in case the battles took too long. Perhaps they were played differently on a competitive level, but I think that's how the majority of people played in Battle. Having 3 flags from the beginning means the focus will be more on turtling on those flags, rather than having a field battle.

In the end, I'm curious to see what this will do for the mode, but I feel like this will mean that some flavours of interesting fights (for example when a handful of remaining players from one team have to fight 20+ from the other team) are impossible because their "morale" ran out because they weren't focused on flags.

Callum said:

Hey guys,

Thanks for taking the time to get together to prepare and share your feedback regarding custom servers and multiplayer modding with us. We’ve started discussing it and will take it into account as development continues.

To directly respond to your primary concern shared in the preface of your letter (and which you again explained further on in the letter as being the most important concern of Mod Communities), we want to say categorically that we plan to support multiplayer modding, including custom assets... but it will take some time.

As stated in the Future Plans blog, we have a number of features that we are currently working on for multiplayer, with custom servers being on that list. We understand that many of you would like to see server files and modding support features sooner, but unfortunately, they come with their own challenges and complications, and so we made our plans accordingly.

It isn’t quite as simple as reverting to one of the other suggestions you put forward as a potential solution either. If we take ‘Re-enable the “Create a Game” function’ as an example: the feature is mainly used for debugging, isn't stable, doesn't work at all with a number of game modes, and uses our servers. This means that we would need to divert our attention and limited resources to work on something that isn’t a planned feature as a temporary fix. Instead, we would rather focus that energy on the ultimate goal of custom servers - because these will be the real foundation for multiplayer modding.

As a final note, we appreciate the amount of time and effort you have put into laying the groundwork for your multiplayer mods and we know that you are eager to crack on with your projects. And just to reiterate our stance on modding: we like it and want to do what we can to support it (as shown by many of the recent modding related changes to the game and modding tools!). We just ask that you give us a little more time so that we are better equipped and prepared to support you when the time comes to share server files and open up multiplayer to modding.

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Since it's been pretty much a week, I think it's safe to assume you're once again posting a one-and-done? No further conversation, just... drop in to say "nope" and then never return?

Callum said:

This means that we would need to divert our attention and limited resources to work on something that isn’t a planned feature as a temporary fix. Instead, we would rather focus that energy on the ultimate goal of custom servers - because these will be the real foundation for multiplayer modding.

Click to expand...

Does this mean that Bannerlord will no longer have the option to locally host a server from in game, like Warband has?

Callum said:

We understand that many of you would like to see server files and modding support features sooner, but unfortunately, they come with their own challenges and complications, and so we made our plans accordingly.

Click to expand...

I understand that this is the case, and that you are not able to change your company's direction in this easily. However, the current direction of TW is extremely detrimental to the multiplayer community, which has already been damaged past the point of fully restoring (with the amount of dedicated community members and leaders leaving the game permanently). I feel like there are two ways to solve this:

1. Shifting your priority from Skirmish/Captain to supporting custom servers (and the accompanying game modes) as soon as possible. This means releasing server files before the full release of the game, just like how the mod tools are already released. I fully understand that this has a lot of technical challenges, and I would not expect it to work flawlessly from the get go, but at least that gives us a way to work with you. This would mean:
   1. Leave Skirmish and Captain as they are now: functional, not fully balanced, but playable.
   2. Identify the issues currently blocking the release of custom server files (and sharing those issues with the community), and working on those.
   3. Finish a first version of Battle (or whatever it's called in Bannerlord).
   4. Release an early version of the custom server files with support for Siege, TDM, Duel, and possibly Battle.
   5. Improve the (at that point) released game modes.
   6. Once the steps above have increased the amount of players, refocus on ranked matchmaking/progression for Skirmish and Captain.
2. If the company's upper management is absolutely dead set on staying the current course against all better judgement, the second option is to instead completely communicate to the community what your plans are. When do you consider multiplayer finished? What game modes do you have planned? In what order are you planning to tackle those features. Before you say it, the Future Plans article and the Statement Regarding Plans For MP do not do this. These posts only tell us your short term plans: the things you expect to include in the next patch or two. I am referring to the scope of Bannerlord MP version 1.0.

If neither of these options can be provided, you will have to watch the MP community continue to die a slow death, along with all mods that planned on having MP content. No, creating a progression system will not make players interested in your multiplayer if the basics are not there yet. No, creating skins will not increase your player base. Only the above two options (with the first one being the far, far better one) will be able to do that.

Callum said:

And just to reiterate our stance on modding: we like it and want to do what we can to support it (as shown by many of the recent modding related changes to the game and modding tools!).

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If you want to do what you can to support (multiplayer) modding: at the very least release a complete roadmap.

Callum said:

We just ask that you give us a little more time so that we are better equipped and prepared to support you when the time comes to share server files and open up multiplayer to modding.

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Our main point is: the more time you take, the less your community will be motivated to mod your game, and the fewer players will be able to enjoy it. We don't expect you to release the custom server files tomorrow: we do expect you to realise that your current prioritization and lack of communication is not right.

Just to summarize a few points for the developers:

1. The only way for us to create mods is to provide us with one of the solutions in the letter.
2. We have already lost several great minds and great ideas because we've already had to sit and wait for 1.5 years. Making us wait another year will mean a lot of potential will be permanently lost.
3. Great mods drive your sales, and if we can only release such mods 1+ year after the full release, you will miss out on a lot of traffic.

May I take you on a trip down memory lane? In particular: the "discussion" regarding why TW is using the class system, full stop. In this discussion, You mentioned the following reasons for using the class system:

• Prevent snowballing
• Making picking equipment simpler. New players don't know what to pick and why, and spawning time is limited.
• We wanted to see fully armored knights AND peasants on the same battlefield and they should NOT be equal in power.
• And we want to see both of them available on round 1.
• We want the knight to be able to picked by anyone, not by the already skilled player who killed everyone and now has enough money to buy the equipment.
• Making troops distinctive enough with a glance you know all about what you are facing. Capabilities, gear, etc.
• Giving each class a predetermined purpose. To enable players to work on building effective teams, adapting tactics depending on the situation.
• To provide better visuals for the spectators or other players by having properly dressed soldiers. Knights looking like knights, Crossbowmen looking like crossbowmen etc.
• To be able to use the same system for all game modes - Captain mode and Skirmish mode etc.

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Let's ignore that final point, since you've already quietly understood how nonsensical it is. Feast your eyes in particular on this quote:

• Making troops distinctive enough with a glance you know all about what you are facing. Capabilities, gear, etc.

So to achieve that, you're adding passive perks that radically change how someone should be approached (for example because they aren't stunned by attacks that deal less than 35 damage)? I sure hope that those are actually visibly unique. Not that we can check since we won't be able to test these changes until they go live, because there are no servers to test them on. Nice.

Callum said:

We will be looking at releasing custom server files closer to, or even after, the full release of the game. We still have a lot of work left to do on multiplayer and would like to finish implementing our planned features first.

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In case it wasn't crystal clear to you why Bannerlord MP is dead: this is the reason.