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Killfacer said:

Next i'd like to thank everyone who ran the previous Nations Cups, particularly Alexander whose words I repeatedly stole wholesale. You also ran several other tournaments successfully and we're all grateful.

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You're not welcome. Work harder next time.

↑↑↑↑↑ wrong 'un ↑↑↑↑↑

Proletariat 16 - 0 Way of the Warrior

Thought for the day, people:

"I do not consider 4 to be a bunch, if I asked for a bunch of grapes and got a vine with just 4 on it, I wouldn't consider it worth much, but if there are many then id value them."

try harder, terrible video, get better at warband, you suck,

Bliv kicked from AE after it was discovered he has a Vietnamese IP address.

Some more recent statistics from recent Nations Cup matches, ordered by percentage of total kills:


Obtained using:



The total number of kills from crossbows and bows is 21.55%, assuming literally every headshot is from a bow or crossbow. Considering from the ENL this percentage was at ~30%, this would seem to show that if anything, archers are becoming less of a problem in competitive matches, rather than more so.

One-handed swords, polearms and one-handed axes on the other hand account for 62.9% of total kills. Huh.

Tork789 said:

The same applies, for, well, anything. Like if a guy gets shot in a leg and then killed by a sword in the face. That's, by the way, another reason why we can't make a clear conclusion from just one statistic.

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Not really, since the difference is that every other attack can 'hide' behind every other kill statistic, as you said, an arrow and then a kill with a sword. Headshots however by their very nature cannot 'hide' in this way, and so the count of headshot kills is more-or-less equal to the number of headshot hits, whereas the count of one-handed sword kills is lower by a great degree than the count of one-handed sword hits.

Tork789 said:

Alex_C said:

Headshot proportions will always be slightly higher, since they're more or less a finishing move. You could have plenty of body-shots which won't be counted in the kill count since they don't kill the opponent, for instance with a player being shot twice and then finished off with a headshot, or a player taking three or so arrows which aren't headshots to finally die.

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Ehrm, what do you mean by "finishing move"? For me it's something like in WotR when someone is lying on the ground and it's easy to come to him, take your time to aim and make a headshot. When I was headshotted it was mostly in a melee fight or from a distance when I wasn't defending myself with a shield or didn't make it in time to cover myself or simply the shooter was on a higher position which allowed him to shoot over shield. And 1 or 2 times it was the shield penetration. But I don't remember any "finishing moves", describe it more detailed please.

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Well, by a headshot's very nature it will show up more in a kill log, since a headshot always (excluding certain fringe circumstances) kills. One headshot is all it takes for a kill to be registered as a headshot, whereas behind every other kill there could be numerous individual hits from other weapon types which will not be in a kill count. The same applies more-or-less the couched lances.

Lord_Anden said:

Osviux said:

I like to do things differently than the majority (in real life) as well and I don't see anything wrong with it, but hearing from Niflheim  (archer haters) that archers should be weakened sounds way too biased.

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Balanced is not necessarily weakened. For one, I say make arrows and bolts hurt badly if you actually get hit, but decrease shooting rate and accuracy.

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What effects do you envisage that having on high-end competitive play? Why are these effects positive?

Tork789 said:

Alex_C said:

Firstly headshots also come from infantry and cavalry by means of throwing weapons, secondly as the statistics show, even if all headshots were to be taken as from rangers, they would only account for ~30% of kills.

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Yeah, but I when I was speaking about reducing accuracy, I ment ranged, not archers and crossbows only, man.
And the fact that ranged kills are taking 30% of kills in a competitive tournament such as ENL doesn't mean they don't dominate. 30% is still pretty damn high, especially if what was said before is truth:

Osviux said:

If there's a lot of archers well then you are right, but in competitive play there is often 1-2

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Which I assure you is truth for many clans, not for all but still. So assuming that archers were 16% of all players or even less, they took 30% of all kills, which makes the number even more impressing.
Though 10% headshots is too damn high by itself, don't you think? Slightly reducing accuracy would be perfect imo.

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So you want to reduce throwing weapon accuracy as well? Even for arguments sake assuming your point about the ranged classes being overpowered, I don't see the motivation for that.

What proportion of archers taken entirely depends on map and faction choice. Since the standard format is for one Open and one Closed map to be available per match, I'd put the aggregate number of archers per team in a match to around 2.5/8 (1-2 in a closed map, 3-4 in an open map), which is 31.25% of players, achieving ~30% of kills (assuming all headshots are from crossbows/archers). This seems reasonable.

Headshot proportions will always be slightly higher, since they're more or less a finishing move. You could have plenty of body-shots which won't be counted in the kill count since they don't kill the opponent, for instance with a player being shot twice and then finished off with a headshot, or a player taking three or so arrows which aren't headshots to finally die.

Tork789 said:

Alex_C said:

Headshot

<img=ico_headshot>

2755

10.8%

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Every 10th kill is a headshot. Nice statistics, to me it's now even more obvious that accuracy need to be reduced.

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Firstly headshots also come from infantry and cavalry by means of throwing weapons, secondly as the statistics show, even if all headshots were to be taken as from rangers, they would only account for ~30% of kills.

Lord_Anden said:

Rallix said:

Lord_Anden said:

Rallix said:

No, it means that it's not a 'proper' cake.
What is proper is what the majority say it is.

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But its indeed still a cake and it works just as fine as any other cake? Probably taste just as good? No?

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Maybe. But the changes which are being suggested are for the other bakers. Not someone who goes and does their own odd thing.
These changes to the ingredients are being made with the needs of the majority in mind, and not the minority.

I'm not saying that you can't do your own thing. I'm saying you can't expect the majority to accept it.

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I see, but why wouldnt they accept it? Because we are bothering people about it or because we dont do the same?

Cake: Why do the other bakers not like this other baker and his cake? Because he is selling it and talking about it or because the bakers see he is doing something else.

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Good thing no one gives a **** since a cake isn't in any way analogous to playing a video game online.

Huunter852 said:

Alex_C said:

What properties do a cake and competitive Warband share? How relevant is a cake to competitive Warband?

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Are you so stupid that you don't know what a Metaphor is? DAMN your stupid!

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It's not a metaphor, it's an analogy. You're trying to compare the two things in regards to their apparent shared properties and show that since attribute x of a cake is true, attribute x of competitive Warband is also true. However due to the huge discrepancies between a cake and competitive Warband, it's not relevant.

Lord_Anden said:

Alex_C said:

Stop with the ridiculous cake thing, it's not in any way a suitable analogy.

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It is actually.

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Huunter852 said:

Alex_C said:

Stop with the ridiculous cake thing, it's not in any way a suitable analogy.

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Whats wrong, did I hurt your E-peen by proving you wrong? Am I proving how stupid what your saying is?

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What properties do a cake and competitive Warband share? How relevant is a cake to competitive Warband?

Stop with the ridiculous cake thing, it's not in any way a suitable analogy.

Tork789 said:

That's a nice story. But apparently saying "I have statistics that show..." doesn't mean backing up with statistics. And you haven't mentioned that you tried to make your conclusions, the value of which are as high as the one you made above, were just an attempt restore your face after I've shown you your place.

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Lord_Anden said:

NFC stands for Native Fall Cup? No?
Official Rules for the Native Fall Cup then, thats for sure, but is that really the Official Rules for all matches played? No, not really, that is obvious for anyone with a brain.

Done and Done on the rule matter then.

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There are no rules or laws in this world governing societal, cultural or individual conduct which don't exist on the basis of numerous people coming together (i.e. a community) and setting them in place as the standard.

Norsking said:

So what you're actually saying is that unless a clan plays with the rules you like in the matches you like they're not really proper matches?

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I tried that argument when I applied for an Olympic spot as an archer and just ran up to the target and stuck the arrow in the centre but it didn't really work out.

Norsking said:

I don't give a jack **** what the "community" thinks about me or my clan or our playstyle.

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Norsking said:

It seems most people here are self-centered assholes anyways

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Nice.

Norsking said:

Oh and by all means, feel free to continue calling Niflheim a nub infantry clan Alex, but fact remains that we have won 10 out of 11 official clanmatches and you simply can't say something like "but u didnt play all archer-teams" and expect to discredit that fact!

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This kinda goes towards my point. You have no idea what an actual competitive match even looks like.

My point was not that you were a bad clan, simply that you as a clan have absolutely no reason to be commenting on a patch intended for competitive play.

The fact you've gone and called them 'official clanmatches' (maybe give yourself a gold star as well for each of them), doesn't actually mean they're worth anything in terms of actual competitive experience. As far as I know you've yet to compete as a clan in any serious tournaments and frankly looking at the teams you've played against, that isn't a particularly impressive match record.

Since captainlust earlier stated that this patch was intended to balance elements of competitive play, I just don't see what valid input Niflheim members can possibly have. This isn't an attempt to disparage your clan, I can perfectly accept that you handle the game in the way you wish to and is fun for you, and that's fine; the fact remains however, that your clan has never really played competitive matches in Warband, and the few times you have you have either imposed your own arbitrary limitations on the game or failed.

This essentially means you're unlikely to have any valid input about what the patch should change, again taking captainlust's statement that this patch is intended for competitive play.