Search results for query: oil food

- where, why and how enemy faction with 1 city and 3 villages taking 200+ troops every few days?

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A.I. cheats! I've heard it's gotten worse with 1.1.0, but when last I played on 1.0.3, it was inconsequential to their survival or ability to resist you. Free money/XP basically.

- why with only 1 town and 3 villages enemy faction has more than 50 lords with armies?

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They're highly reproductive and high clan tier means each clan can deploy more retinues (I think 4 is the maximum and 2 is the minimum?).

- why sieges are so painful? it takes few months of game time to destroy enemy artillery, because it pure RNG even with engineering 200+ where and how your trebuchet firing. Few shots at walls, few shots at onagers.

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Are you holding the siege weapons (Trebuchets especially) in reserve BEFORE deploying them? A trick you ought to use that the A.I. doesn't is to hold them back until you can have 4 at once active. If you do that, they're far more effective. If anything, I'd say the pain your describing should be the norm because sieges are too easy for the attacker, which is backwards from reality because cities aren't capable of resisting much and its easy to overwhelm the defenders once the walls have been cracked.

- why trebuchet after it was built, missing 2 turns of shooting? I mean enemy artillery shoot twice before my trebuchet wake up.
- why on the place of destroyed onager suddenly appears ballista?!

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RNG?

- why towns without any lords inside building siege weapons twice as faster than my engineer with 200 engineering?
- why town's militia not affected by hunger? is this some kind of terminators squad, which don't need any food?

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Because city siege weapons are much cheaper? Frankly, they ought to start off deployed because it's too easy to rush the walls if you'd rather go that route and defenders need all the help they can get to be decently challenging once you know how to play the siege minigame effectively.

Militia are junk in actual battles, but a necessary oil for cities/castles to survive since they fall very quickly and easily without a reserve of them to handle auto-battles. If anything, I think they should be buffed (especially in actual battles) because defenders are way too weak in this game.

Now few questions about other moments:
- diplomacy. When it will be implemented? Without diplomacy this game is just dumb, primitive, grindy medieval battle simulator

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Short of the developers saying something, it's best to assume that what exists is what will exist with perhaps the smallest of changes.

- why in Warband I could give a fief, town or castle to companion and THEY WERE DEFEDNING IT AND PATROLLING AROUND?! Why in Bannerlord after giving them castle or town they are just sitting paralyzed inside?!

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They're poor and need more money and bodies before they can be active. Plus, they start at Clan Rank 2, so they can only field 2 retinues if I'm not mistaken and your companion turned lord may have given those slots to his/her newly spawned relatives.

- how workshops/towns/caravans income system working? I have very strong feeling that it has some kind of formula (total expenses+-10%)=random current income. Even if I'll capture the most prosperous city in the world it's income will exactly (my current expenses+-10%)

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Now this I don't really know, except workshops hardly make money in the best of days (and my only "strategy" is to ignore them since changing them always results in a net loss for me), towns make money based on Prosperity and tariffs (although in general they can't afford more than ~200 soldiers (not counting Militia, which are free) before going into the red, and caravans make money similar to the player therefore it's advisable to avoid spawning them all in the same places since they can cannibalize on each others profitability. I recommend looking up "Flesson" on YouTube for details--this is just my rough summary of it all.

Not really sure how behavior like this was considered "good enough" for release candidate:


Two different starving towns, food prices are still at "discount" level. Myzea even has plenty of food on the market, cheap, for some reason.

This is after a daily tick (or several in case of Hubyar). Starving towns, or even towns expected to run out of food in 2-3 days, should immediately attempt to buy out ANY food item still available on the local market (impacting tax gains from that settlements, can't get money from people who just spent a fortune on basic necessities, no matter what my government may think), and apply it toward reduction in local food storage. Pretty ridiculous to see a town starving while 150+ loads of meat are offered dirt-cheap in its markets.

Another major issue I've noticed is that goods consumption is completely off, especially compared to workshop production capacity. Breweries, as the most egregious example in current version, will flood the market in just a few days enough to become unprofitable. There are enough of them on the map to quickly flood the "global" market into long-term unprofitability. Similar issue occurs with most workshops, unless the player spends time fighting against the "economy" with manual good distribution, or is fortunate enough that warfare causes enough disruption and depletion.

On top of that, consumption information is so heavily obfuscated, or completely hidden from the player, unless they are the owner of a town, most of it will be undecipherable.

The leftmost notable should be able to offer a breakdown of economic situation of a town:

"We can rely on our three villages to provide grain, meat, hides, and grapes. Our brewery and tannery produce enough beer and leather to allow trade with other towns. The caravans keep us supplied with Oil, Tools, and Pottery, but it's been some time since we've had Wine and Fish available on the market. People are desperate for Hardwood and Wool."

Or something to that effect. So at least the player has some feedback of what is going on with that town.

Towns should have much higher consumption of... basically everything other than grain, as things are right now. They need to be goods sinks, and a lot of the goods that are not produced locally should near always be in high enough demand to warrant bringing them for trade. 1 unit a day does nothing considering workshop production rates. This consumption should also be heavily dependent on prosperity of the town - the higher it is, the more variety of goods the town requires, and the larger amount of each is in demand. Their cultural diversification of preferences should be a thing as well.

Towns also need to be capable of deficit consumption. Meaning going increasingly into negative "consumed" quantity of a specific good, driving up the price, and lowering tax gains from that town. Also increasingly limiting prosperity gain (but not reducing prosperity unless at some "critical" level of deficit) dependent on the magnitude of the deficit.

At 5000+ prosperity, any goods that are not locally produced and available should only go into positives when a caravan just hits the town with 100+ units of it. And not last long after that, either, since the town should immediately address the deficit "spending" of each good by directly removing required quantities from the market.

Give towns "storage" capacity for goods to match at least expected weekly consumption at current prosperity value. Have them restock from any delivery before the rest is allowed back into the marketplace. Hell, give the player ability to either hire one of the gang leaders to set fire to that warehouse, destroying a portion of the "stored" goods, or do it themselves in some manner of night "stealth" mission, as a tool of market speculation.

Construction of projects (including continuous) should increase desire for specific goods, dependent on the project. Recovering villages should increase price for specific goods, and recover faster if they are delivered by the villager party.

Various cultures should have some secondary goods they consume in large quantities based on specific regional resources, to ensure local production maintains profitability. So that Vlandian towns would consume, as example, a lot of oil and horses. Northern empire towns would use much more silk than other factions, since it's so freely available to them. Battanians would take grape baths, because Battanians.

Provide increased LOCAL consumption to make workshops exploiting local village production profitably operational, even in between caravan visits. Just at lower profit, unless nearby towns are at very high prosperity. This should also apply to breweries, not just "trade" goods.

You're working with settings without global trade network. Goods from another side of the map should always be in high demand. Demand driving workshop profitability should not rely on warfare disruption just so they can start breaking even long-term. High prosperity towns should be near always starved for luxury goods that local production cannot supply. Relevant information should be communicated to the player in a clear way (that's what the NPC interactions should be bloody well used for), not hidden behind "Town Management" panel.

The current implementation is not just extremely unintuitive, it may work well in terms of caravans doing their normalization work, but makes workshops extremely ungainly to turn profitable. Trade in general is nickle-and-diming affair in small quantities, instead of the large scale bulk operation it should be when going from one end of the map to the other. Then again, "trade" gameplay should have included large-scale contracts with town merchants and owners, and storage rights along with associated "roguery" gameplay, but that's another tangent.

At least fix economy so that it doesn't just reflect the period settings, and gives a sliver of local flavor to towns through their consumption preferences (also helping local workshops), but it also doesn't throw conflicting information at the player when it bothers to communicate at all.

tl;dr:
- Towns should not be starving when there's cheap food on their internal market.
- Primary notable should provide breakdown of internal consumption and supply situation
- Towns need much higher consumption values, preferably with increased consumption for goods tied to regional production of each faction, and general prosperity value
- Towns should have deficit consumption implementation, driven by prosperity value, allowing for accumulation of internal "demand" for increasing number of units desired and possible to trade at once
- Towns with high levels of deficit accumulations should have slower prosperity growth than those supplied
- Ongoing town projects (including continuous) should increase consumption of specific goods
- Recovering villages should increase consumption of specific goods
- Towns should "store" portion of caravan-delivered goods for near-future expected consumption, also to prevent immediate market price manipulation by the player

Madeloc said:

There are plenty of workshops with close ressources that actually have a null or very bad output ….

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it's tireing to try and explain how workshops work now in 1.8

So, TW made us another favor of RNGing all workshops in the game. Even if you are overloaded with resources, if all surrounding towns have the exact same workshop, you'll have your product plummeted in regional value and caravans won't buy it - that's why you won't profit even having massive loads of prime materials available. That means, if you want your workshop to profit, you'll need to buy all surrounding copies of it, switch their production into something else, and either sell them back or keep them. Than again, we have workshop limits relative to clan level, so keeping them isn't a good idea. That means a single effective workshop, depending on RNG, can cost you over 100k to make it profit 200 a day... Massive waste of time.

The only usefulness of them is actually for the ones that create items, such as smith, woodwork, weaveries and leatherworks - allowing you access to specific equipments that won't spawn otherwise (theoretically, becauses they do spawn extremely rarely even if no relevant workshop's in town), to boost your towns food variety, boosting food availability and finally helping with prosperity increases (these would be Presses, Brewery, basically anything that produces food items) Beacause having a gazillion Wheat in town's less effective for that than having half-gazillion Wheat plus Beer, for instance.

Again, it's poor design mostly due to RNG, but it can work in your favor on late game for prosperity increases and access to equipment. Considering how much grind's demanded to reach such levels of equipment, and actually buy them, I'm much more inclined into just cheating the equipment because even with the workshops, they depend on both prosperity level and RNG, again. RNG... At this point they could call the game M&B: RNG and just plump cinematics and events decided by dice rolls while we sit and watch, would make for an awesome game don't you think?

Now for my personal list (so far):

Epicrotea has the highest potential for Smith workshops
Seonon has the highest potential for Woodworks
Sanala has the highest potential for Brewery
Quyaz has the highest potential for Oil Press
Omor has the highest potential for Linen Weavery
Chaikand and Tyal have the highest potential for Wool Weavery

--- For wine I have no clue, nor tannery, but eventually I'll get there
PS: No matter what, Silversmiths are the goat and will always profit more than all of those as long as there's a village supplying silver ore to the town

Fish, date fruit, salt and pelts are the worst resources because they can't produce anything within any workshops - that means they only help if the Town has other pure sources of food connected to it like olives, grapes and wheat - if you instead have herds (hogs / cows / etc) your towns food production will be bad and it'll cap at very low prosperity. (most of sturgia)

Sanala has like 3 wheat villages, 1 fish + no bandit spawns nearby and a nearby castle with 2 bound villages one producing date fruit and 1 silver. It's the most OP town in the game, and it'll always be the most prosperous on any run unless it keeps getting captured constantly (which's exceptionally unlikely considering it's geographical position). If you wanna build an empire legit in 1.8, sanala's the go for it's capital, combine it with a pure governor build + personal build that optimizes workshop income, put a silversmith there and you're golden. With a super governor you'll get incomes that vary from 300 up to 1k a day (depending on market floating) just from the workshop. By late game the town itself can be generating ludicrous amounts of taxes due to shooting over 11k prosperity. And since you have spare gold and spare slots, buy the brewery there to oomph your income by another 200 while guaranteeing an extra food item (beer) to boost it's food supplies - switch the third workshop for blacksmith so you can equip all your companions while also returning the gold to your own town boosting it's prosperity even more, and you're golden.

My second favorite town is Ortysia which's the only town with the potential to surpass Sanala with the correct governor and by forcefully maintaining stability, which also has a silvermine almost attached to it and one of the closest castles has a ironmine (smithy will actually make some profits) - meaning it can repeat the same effect as sanala (generally I get both and watch as they go over 10k prosperity while the rest of the map's struggling to get to 6k) - What makes Ortysia so powerful's it's location that virtually forces all caravans going into and out of Vlandia / Aserai to make a stop. Golden position = OPness

xdj1nn said:

it's tireing to try and explain how workshops work now in 1.8

So, TW made us another favor of RNGing all workshops in the game. Even if you are overloaded with resources, if all surrounding towns have the exact same workshop, you'll have your product plummeted in regional value and caravans won't buy it - that's why you won't profit even having massive loads of prime materials available. That means, if you want your workshop to profit, you'll need to buy all surrounding copies of it, switch their production into something else, and either sell them back or keep them. Than again, we have workshop limits relative to clan level, so keeping them isn't a good idea. That means a single effective workshop, depending on RNG, can cost you over 100k to make it profit 200 a day... Massive waste of time.

The only usefulness of them is actually for the ones that create items, such as smith, woodwork, weaveries and leatherworks - allowing you access to specific equipments that won't spawn otherwise (theoretically, becauses they do spawn extremely rarely even if no relevant workshop's in town), to boost your towns food variety, boosting food availability and finally helping with prosperity increases (these would be Presses, Brewery, basically anything that produces food items) Beacause having a gazillion Wheat in town's less effective for that than having half-gazillion Wheat plus Beer, for instance.

Again, it's poor design mostly due to RNG, but it can work in your favor on late game for prosperity increases and access to equipment. Considering how much grind's demanded to reach such levels of equipment, and actually buy them, I'm much more inclined into just cheating the equipment because even with the workshops, they depend on both prosperity level and RNG, again. RNG... At this point they could call the game M&B: RNG and just plump cinematics and events decided by dice rolls while we sit and watch, would make for an awesome game don't you think?

Now for my personal list (so far):

Epicrotea has the highest potential for Smith workshops
Seonon has the highest potential for Woodworks
Sanala has the highest potential for Brewery
Quyaz has the highest potential for Oil Press
Omor has the highest potential for Linen Weavery
Chaikand and Tyal have the highest potential for Wool Weavery

--- For wine I have no clue, nor tannery, but eventually I'll get there
PS: No matter what, Silversmiths are the goat and will always profit more than all of those as long as there's a village supplying silver ore to the town

Fish, date fruit, salt and pelts are the worst resources because they can't produce anything within any workshops - that means they only help if the Town has other pure sources of food connected to it like olives, grapes and wheat - if you instead have herds (hogs / cows / etc) your towns food production will be bad and it'll cap at very low prosperity. (most of sturgia)

Sanala has like 3 wheat villages, 1 fish + no bandit spawns nearby and a nearby castle with 2 bound villages one producing date fruit and 1 silver. It's the most OP town in the game, and it'll always be the most prosperous on any run unless it keeps getting captured constantly (which's exceptionally unlikely considering it's geographical position). If you wanna build an empire legit in 1.8, sanala's the go for it's capital, combine it with a pure governor build + personal build that optimizes workshop income, put a silversmith there and you're golden. With a super governor you'll get incomes that vary from 300 up to 1k a day (depending on market floating) just from the workshop. By late game the town itself can be generating ludicrous amounts of taxes due to shooting over 11k prosperity. And since you have spare gold and spare slots, buy the brewery there to oomph your income by another 200 while guaranteeing an extra food item (beer) to boost it's food supplies - switch the third workshop for blacksmith so you can equip all your companions while also returning the gold to your own town boosting it's prosperity even more, and you're golden.

My second favorite town is Ortysia which's the only town with the potential to surpass Sanala with the correct governor and by forcefully maintaining stability, which also has a silvermine almost attached to it and one of the closest castles has a ironmine (smithy will actually make some profits) - meaning it can repeat the same effect as sanala (generally I get both and watch as they go over 10k prosperity while the rest of the map's struggling to get to 6k) - What makes Ortysia so powerful's it's location that virtually forces all caravans going into and out of Vlandia / Aserai to make a stop. Golden position = OPness

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yes yes i agree and aware of the fact that if there are smithies - for example - in all surrounding towns, with the trade competition it is not a surprise that the shop won’t make huge profits.

But I take that in account and manage such as there is an acceptable distance with the next same shop and there are some - not all - who seem to be in a constant depressive state ! sturgia is a catastrophe, for example…
Sanala’s Silversmith who was working pretty well till now, seems to have fallen lately in a crisis

Although I would like to see wine added as a food source, like beer, I'm not sure if I want oil to be added as a food source, I know you would cook with it, but it's kinda like salt, you cook with it in very very small amounts, but don't eat it to fill yourself up.

I've never had an issue with food but my parties always need food to help them(in army), I keep getting points for giving my fellow troops in my army food. So I wonder if food isn't an issue, but the amount of food your other parties carry?

As for cities starving, seems there is a population issue, like your farms have a max production and will never increase, wile your cities can just over populate and keep asking for more food.

Trueten said:

Well it seems they have taken the tactics "[large] quantity equals quality", but in reality it brings much more mess in operating it and supplying this mass.

Im pretty sure corruption destroyed everything. Oil-dollars does its thing.

...

****e. Visa announces to leave Russia. And I have many russians working in my company. I will not be able to pay them sallaries therefore...

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Russia has great army logistics in their own country. They rely heavily on their rail network of which they have a lot. But outside of Russia they get into trouble. Ukraine very swiftly destroyed incoming rail networks from Russia and Belarus, blocking their main logistics supply. Also their fierce fighting over the airport stops that air supply line.
Russia now has a 60KM long traffic jam of trucks and tanks on the road to Kiev just moving meters each day because of a lack of fuel and food.

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I think you might need to look at different ways of payment for your workers, it looks like it could become a long war so backpay might not be a solution. Or outsource the work, if possible..

CptMuppet said:

It would also change other things, some of them for worse. For example starving settlements' garrisons by siege would take much more time, and you need some patience to do that even now. You need to keep in mind that probably the majority of players is more interested in conquest gameplay than in the merchant one.

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I think two weeks food supply is a fairly reasonable starting point for a starvation siege, especially as currently implemented.

Also you gotta keep in mind that the most hotly-contested fiefs are likely going to be going through multiple sieges in fairly short spans of time and also experience village disruption.

CptMuppet said:

To be fair, year in Calradia is 84 days long, so it changes perspective on this a bit.

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Huh... they changed it? I thought it was 120 days, with 4x 30-day months. Wild that I didn't notice.

CptMuppet said:

I don't think grouping food types into one type, like with steel and iron, is a good idea. In Bannerlord, stockpiling different food types in the market gives very, very different result in food bonus for a town, and food bonus translates to prosperity bonus. For example, Grain is the most desirable food type, and much bigger percetage of it, available on the market, would be consumed daily by a town than for the other food types.

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I'm sure that the code can be tweaked so they still offer the same Food-stat bonuses they do now while feeding the same demand curve for food in general.

Also IRL example: I used to live in Portugal, whose staple foods are: grain, fish, oil and meat. Bacalau (aka cod - which still gives me nausea just thinking about it today) and caldo verde (a green soup which serves basically as a vehicle for olive oil) prove that you can sustain peasantry on fish and oil alone without any grain.

CptMuppet said:

Pirce grouping of different item types makes one more exploit possible similar to the caravan one.

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I'm aware but LOL they should patch that exploit already.

Ananda_The_Destroyer said:

In general I think the value of campaign time needs to be more respected as the game is balanced.

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YES! In M&B WB & VC there was always a distinct impression given that lords were independent actors with their own motives and goals that did their own thing according to their own ethical codes.

In BL, lords do absolutely nothing at all but siege, raid and patrol. That's it.

And it appears to have **** nothing to do with their personality: I just caught an Honorable Merciful Generous lord raiding one of my villages. What the **** is that???

Sweynforkbeard said:

In the Asarai case Sanala is particularly interesting. On day 1 it had 4.300 prosperity and a garrison of 292. On day 500 prosperity has reached 9.137 (well done!) but the garrison has dropped to 155. So, even in (because of?) a nice safe environment AI lords seems to be set on a path towards poverty.

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That might be a function of food availability? Prosperity directly translates into food demand and starvation kills garrisons. Are you playing on a fresh 1.7.0 save?

@SadShogun this is exactly what I was talking about in terms of town collapse. Tying Prosperity directly to the Food stat is a mistake, since consumption of food is already a function of Prosperity. And, in the past, there's been a severe mismatch where a high enough supply of food to counteract the Prosperity penalty would reduce the price enough to cause caravans to buy up the supply.

I guess the Food stat is less a measure of available food and more a measure of food precarity + nutritional health of the people? If so, that should really be a function of the supply of food and the PRICES - so it simulates the affordability of food for the common people. A town being more prosperous shouldn't be a reason for the peasants to not afford food: if they all have paying work, then the opposite should be true.

I didn't even know it was possible for Prosperity to go over 8000. Interesting!

Lord Brutus said:

The primary function of oil is to keep the lamps burning, not as food.

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Bro, what about olive oil?

Marcolino said:

Although Olive Oil is certainly food! Also, lamp oil is a consumable resource as well and, as such, should deplete over time (similar mechanics as food)

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Exactly!

Marcolino said:

That may be so. tHe change I made can be selective. You can simply leave oil as it is.

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Although Olive Oil is certainly food! Also, lamp oil is a consumable resource as well and, as such, should deplete over time (similar mechanics as food)

The primary function of oil is to keep the lamps burning, not as food.

Lord Brutus said:

The primary function of oil is to keep the lamps burning, not as food.

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That may be so. tHe change I made can be selective. You can simply leave oil as it is.

Lord Brutus said:

Wiki says use for oil is to keep lamps burning.

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There are many types of oils, Olive oil is primarily considered food
Since wiki is a more reliable source of information for you than an entire culture here is a link : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olive_oil