there's one thing I'll never do on this forum and that's listen to anything orion says
You do not get the point and still think "beta" is just another word in everyday language. We are talking about terminology here, the meaning of these words do not change unless through the respective discipline. I already gave the example of how one cannot redefine "electron" unless through scientific means. But maybe you guys do that in your country and electron today means absolutely something else there, who the f knows at this point But if you say to a Physicist "this is what we call electron from now on, get used to it" the guy will only laugh at you. This is the same with "beta version." However I cannot really laugh because as I said people like you whose only knowledge about the subject comes from "hearsay" or "what people do" allow big players to get away with selling products without testing them.
Whoever told you that 'finding bugs' is a process that never stops also sold you a few bridges I suppose First of all; it is not 'a process' but more importantly, no software has ever been maintained forever; i.e the process which is "debugging" comes after release of a presumably well-tested and working product, during maintenance stage in Software Development Lifecycle. Once a product is considered "complete" whatever the relevant metrics are, and unless there is any maintenance contract or something similar, devs simply stop working on it. End of story. I assume what you mean to say is no (sufficiently complex) Software is bug-free, which is more or less correct. But that is completely outside of my argument as when I say "game does not work properly" I am not talking about the odd bug that happens once in a million cases; I am talking about critical functionality failing, but the product still being released because it is not tested in the first place. If I say I made a car but who knows if it works, never tested it, would you buy my car? You would not, but we give gaming companies a pass in this and they almost never fail to disappoint in the end.
By the way, you are debating a senior engineer about engineering terminology. Do you this with doctors as well? Or just us? Like, do you go to a doctor and say "nah, this is what we call metacarpal bones today; catch up doc, language evolves!"
"Douche" is not engineering terminology, you can call your pencil "douche" for all care.
Let's clear one issue: what you call "companies" are obviously gaming companies and they should never be your reference on how Software Development SHOULD work. I am guessing "gaming" because no other company would have an external "beta tester" carry out performance tests (or other alpha stage tests) since a "beta tester" would have no idea about how to perform and report formal tests, let alone fully understand their legal implications.
I think the part you do not get is: just like how "evolution," "pressure," "electron" each has a specific meaning in their respective fields and are not subjective, i.e you cannot say "such and such gaming company defines 'electron' as an ambulance;" you also cannot play around with engineering terminology like "Beta phase testing," either. These companies use their "Beta version" scheme to sell you untested therefore broken products and release them prematurely to work on other projects as soon as a few bugs in beta phase are fixed. Since people like you allow them to redefine terminology and blissfully propagate their lies, they can get away with saying their product is "tested" just because it went through some "Beta phase" that they defined to their hearts content while avoiding the Alpha phase testing altogether.
So, when a game is in Beta version and does not work properly, you should actually shame the developer and ask for your money back; and go back to that game only if and when the developer carries out proper tests and releases a product that actually works. The sole purpose of Beta version should be (read "have to be" in the context of engineering) to get feedback from users and not "finding bugs." If it becomes the latter, you should know that the fraud scheme is on, someone is trying to sell you something untested and you will eventually receive a broken product.
I'm not arguing how IBM defined the terminology. I'm arguing how companies are actually applying the term. It is like arguing "douche" is a feminine cleansing product per Webster.This is not a subjective topic that we can agree or disagree on. It is engineering terminology and is pretty well-defined. Beta phase testing is part of a test methodology (Alpha/Beta testing) developed by IBM and is basically a replacement for acceptance testing and nothing else.
I disagree.This information is incorrect. the purpose of Beta testing is not to debug software but to test it against user requirements and expectations. Alpha testing should already have validated the software, i.e. it should be more or less bug-free when it reaches Beta stage.
Can you post a link. Not sure where that is.Understandable, we are on the same page. My comment was merely a pointer to anyone interested because the people who actually wrote the letter participate in that thread. As a nitpick, the letter was posted yesterday and there was a meeting today about it (if we believe Callum that is).
Warband was a success. They were able to feed off of that success in the run up towards Bannerlord.
Bannerlord did great. In sales. In the first week. Then the numbers started to dwindle. Well dwindle is putting it mildly. Plummeted.
Because the game is nothing like its predecessor.
So no, this game has not been a success. It has been buggy, empty and incredible slow in updates.
But I like your optimism. I have seen too much pesimists on these forums. Lets try and find the healthy middle of realism.
Those numbers are misleading, even if you cherrypick just the pinned threads in The Citadel, there is a 69K thread there alone, while in whole of The Citadel there is even a one 8M views thread, so this statement is factually false or an overlook.
I wouldn`t generalize these forums that way at all, as it has abundance of great threads and whole boards that have influenced the development for the better for everyone else, which can`t be said about Reddit or YouTube.
Maybe some people stick arround to watch angry whiteknights shamelessly defend every and any design decision and to laugh at it.
There are a ton of possibilities to why people stick arround here, the main being the oportunity to communicate with the developers, which you most likely won`t experience on any other platform including Reddit and YouTube, but one thing i can tell with certainty - everyone involved enough to post here on forums loves the franchise and wants to make it better, even if frustration slips away from time to time.
In any case, being an active part in the division, and back and forths between the "angry haters" and "shameless whiteknights" isn`t at all helpfull in my view.
A lot of people say "Nooo this forum is a negative well everyone loves this game" just go into Facebook are any other media that's not reddit and people are criticizing the game too. I hope it gets good but yeah, this game is boring, the sole idea of opening the game and play it makes me think "hmm do I really want to?"
They just released a hotfix that fixed none of the major bugs. I call a spade a spade. They tried to fix player made weapons being in tournaments 4 times lol. Frankly it's not inspiring work or content.