Persian equipment isn't what I mean. Just a variant to all the armors where instead of a spolas on chiton or a tunic, it's the long sleeved Persian shirt. The in-game example is Alexander's armor. But I understand not having the time to devout to an entirely new wardrobe, especially if it's being opened to the fairer sex. I really like that helmet, btw. I take it that it'll be for Carthaginians?
Anyways, I noticed some odd features in the texture files where some armors have their entire texture in one image while others use several to accommodate far more. Guess being modded over the years would explain it. I've had the mod downloaded for most of last year but only really got super interested in playing recently with my curiosity about Carthage leading me to the forums and then notice the ambitions of the mod. And thus my imagination went wild and I couldn't contain my voice. Glad you were so patient with.
Regardless, you're all doing incredible work. Also, you should consider painting the crest on that helmet red to further the two tone effect.
When working on the new unfinished map we decided to work on a more focused area of the world in order to make the current factions more in depth and try to better represent the political situation of the era.
This represents the maximum extent of the future map and in the red rectangle the area we'll focus on first:
Just with that in mind and without adding any substantially different faction we'd be looking at around 20 factions which is more than the double of the current factions. In Italy we'd have the Romans, Etruscans, Samnites, Lucanians, Umbrians, Picenes, Messapians, Apulians, Syracusans, City-states of Magna Graecia, Ligurians, Veneti, Senones and Boii/Cenomani/insubres. We still haven't decided wether or not to split the City-states of Magna Graecia due to some tensions and past wars between Kroton and some other cities but splitting up would certainly limit their survival and 300 B.C. onward they weren't best friends but infighting wasn't notable compared to being harassed by the Lucanians. There's also the Bruttians that might not end up as an independent faction because they didn't held considerable territory so they'll likely be a part of the Lucanians as, if I recall correctly, they descended from the same people.
In Greece we'd have the current Greek League split in two, the cities loyal to Demetrios Poliorcetes as a Greek League and all the rest as the "Free Cities" for the sake of convenience else there would be a dozen more micro-factions, in addition there would be the Aetolian League, Macedon, the Epeirote League and Lysimachos' Kingdom.
That's a hefty number of factions without going into uncharted territory.
Yes, I've seen the map. Same one as that's been posted in this thread and the Seleucid research thread. Again, I was vainly hoping you'd be open to bundling several of the factions together. This particular gave me some hope on that matter.
Seek n Destroy said:
Current plan is to have the Lucanians, Apulians, Messapians, Picenes and Umbrians added to the Osco-Umbrian faction roster or at least it's what we're aiming for in the next major update, after that I do not know if we'll add more as I think those are the most relevant in our timeframe.
I had hoped you wouldn't stop at the Osco-Umbrians but continue the bundling to other factions as well. Broad strokes would get the general point across and I think would perhaps be easier in the long run. But, I already said what I needed and I won't press the issue any further.
Seek n Destroy said:
Concerning new items or variants I can't promise anything, most factions should receive an overhaul though and sleeves were planned for some linothorax armors for the Greek factions but Rg wanted to make a new cloth model but at the same time considered it tedious/boring work so it's up to whenever he feels like it or if it goes up on the to-do list.
Mind you, I was mostly kidding about the blue helmet thing (admittedly, I've already redone the color myself). More helmet variety for Syracuse troops, fem armor, and persian shirts however is something I'd definitely I'd appreciate as well as those who play female characters.
I would like to suggest one more thing. If you have the funds to afford some armor like the breastplate or whatever, I'm fairly certain you'd be able to afford some nice quality chiton or whatever. Always wondered why it was so frayed and damaged. The fact that someone (that someone being Rg) is going to revamp the cloth, I'm extra optimistic.
Anyways, thanks again for responding (particularly so quickly).
Edit: Figure I'll include an image of my reskinned armor. For encouragement and also because I like to brag.
Fairly certain you're going to hate me after this post.
Great start, I know. Anyways, I really enjoy this mod. The single player is fun and focuses on a niche period of history (not the Corinthian helmet wearing greeks or Marian Romans). It has my personal favorite Greek city state of Syracuse (meh boiz <3) and generally looks gorgeous. I can't wait for Carthage to be added so I can help Agathocles with his reconquest. Heard he was a bit of a **** but I can overlook that provided Sicily expands. Ignoring my personal bias, I did a bit more research into this forum and found that there are several proposed factions to later be added (the satellite map with red box generally abridges that bit). Now the part you're probably going to hate.
My expertise from the era is limited, I'll admit. Most of what I know happens to be from Youtube videos and Rome 2 Total War (which is probably the WORST source possible but is a step up in historical accuracy when compared to Rome 1. Furthermore, I got the game fairly recently so there is a very good chance that early release was just as inaccurate). That being said, I have always had the belief that total war games should focus on their era a bit better. In this case, the mod starts at 300BC which is a great time. Between Alexander's conquests and the rise of Rome. Maybe the perfect time, but that's a topic for another time.
Essentially the single player campaign map will look something like this.
Nothing wrong with that. It's a great point for a single player campaign. Everything is there, basically. However, that will eventually become this.
No one expects a game to last two hundred years. However, that bit of logic is just single player. The mod itself is single player and multiplayer. I personally believe the multiplayer should be more open with the options of factions and should include rather important events in the Pre-Marian world. The rise of Parthia, the war with the Cimbrians, and events to that nature. Thus, balancing the multiplayer and the single player becomes a chore as off the campaign map you'll find recreations of large, real world battles that would happen years after your character in single player should have died, decomposed, and their grave becomes long forgotten until some backyard archaeologist finds you while looking to fix his watering system and tosses your thigh bone to his designer dog, Aberto.
However, the bigger issue is that adding factions is a PAIN in the ass. With the exception of most Greek factions (which would basically use the same equipment), there would have to be more weapons and armor added as well as characters, cities, and further historical research. Not easy, which is perhaps one of the reasons the main map is being shrunk. In addition, adding too many factions in general would affect the multiplayer game play. Selecting a certain faction can be difficult and impossible to choose a 48th faction as it hangs off screen and will remain out of reach of you and the scroller wheel. 24 factions should be the limit but 20 is ideal, I believe.
That being said, drawing inspiration from the former maps I just linked, I'd like to present this little image.
Proposed Map (nations numbered from proximity and assumed prominence, greatest to least involved)
It clearly drew inspiration from the previous maps. Not ideal as you can tell from number 27 but hear me out. It has a very anachronistic view on things as you can probably tell. For example, Pontus was basically merged with Cappadocia and Persia exists as some sort of horseshoe. The idea behind this is to merge the factions with certain other factions and compensates with particular... features. For example, have Pondocia and Armenia fight the Seleucid Empire as a part of a rebellion while the Persian horseshoe is a satrapy and basically a pawn which they'll eventually break free of. The satrapy of horseshoe could perhaps be considered Iranian or Persian Peoples or Tribes. Or something to that degree, I don't know. This would allow a Parthian faction in multiplayer while also hiding the fact that they weren't a free nation in single player (at least not until 40 years later). The less believable option, however, is Colchis and Cimmeria which have been merged with the caucus nations to form another faction. The entirety of the Celts combined to form a single Celtic nation despite being from very separate tribes.
There lies a greater issue. Individual tribes.
I'd like to propose a simpler idea where the cities of the Celts are named after the tribes themselves like where the Czech Republic is would be the settlement of "Boii" for example. This could be done with the Illyrians as well, the Iberians, the Thracians, the Germans, perhaps even the Scythians. To not make them too overpowered, keep the settlements far apart and the Scythians with the other steppe tribes having the most distant settlements to reflect the nomadic nature. It'll probably be horrible to siege anything of theirs, but it'd be appropriate with them being Nomads. I don't believe the Scythians were ever conquered by any civilized nation but I could be wrong.
That being said, there are still several factions more than there has to be. I suggested 24 and the map has 27. Well, I already took it upon myself to cut that number down to 23.
The caucus and the black sea have been absorbed by Armenia and Pontus respectfully, Numidia has been incorporated into Carthage, Nabataeans could be removed and replaced with bandits that are specific to the region while Lysimachus's Kingdom has been absorbed as part of the Seleucid Empire. Frankly, I think there are already an absurd amount of Greek nations and I'm unsure how historically significant that particular Diadochi state was. Of course, the Persians could also be removed if the original map is still preferred and that'd make it 22 right there. Remove Armenia entirely, 21. Work your way down. Honestly, if Massilia wasn't so far away, I'd say make it part of another faction.
But that's just my view and opinion on the single player and multiplayer factions. Even if you ignore EVERYTHING I say, hopefully the maps will at least help a little bit. Finally, I think I'd like to propose two more suggestions. Firstly, could you find it in the kindness of your heart to add more helmets to Syracuse's multiplayer unit roster? Helmets that aren't that the Phrygian helmet for more diversity? Such as this little guy.
It's available to the Syracuse general in multiplayer but not any other troop. But, that's super minimal compared to everything else. What's also super minimal is "I think that same helmet would look amazing with a blue and white scheme as well as red and black and would be super easy to add as it's just a retexture with bonus points if the ear protector bits are removed (which is less easy) and I'd add it myself but I'm hoping to be able to use it in multiplayer" but we're done talking minimal.
Last topic, I know this is a total ***** to even think about but it'd be nice to see the armor in game supported for female characters. I don't personally play female characters but I know of a lot of people who do. However, my dog in the ring are the female companions whose entire bodies change in different armors. But as with the Syracuse helmet variety, it's quite minimal.
That being said, thank you for your time in reading this. I greatly appreciate this mod and I'll be happy to send you like $20 dollars for the blue helmet for Syracuse. It's not a transaction; it's a bribe. Thanks again.
Edit: DAMMIT, I forgot to mention this.
Persian shirts with Greek Armor. There is one already in game (Alexander the Great's spolas). Would it be possible to add more armors like that in game so you don't have to run around with exposed arms and boring chiton? It wouldn't be too outlandish as Alexander and sometimes his generals would wear them (as Alexander was very into Persian culture and customs).
I feel one of two things will eventually happen. Docm will eventually get tired of people asking and allow someone to release the mod just so they'll stop pestering him or there will be a rise in black market mods with random messages in people's inboxes saying, "Hey, Kid. Want to download a mod?"
Well if you add more cities to Russia and so far away from the others, the AI won't handle it well. The faction is already fighting Prussia with one hand tied behind its back as it is. Even just giving them Tbilisi (the capital of the former Kartli-Kakheti turned Georgian Governorate) would probably screw up the faction.
And if Docm were to handle the region with the same attention to detail he's tried to apply everywhere else, then you'd have a buffer zone full of microstates such as Mingrelia, Imereti, Abkhazia, Ganja, Erivan, Karabakh, Shirvan, Shaki, Derbent, Quba and Baku with various fixed alliances or hostilities to represent the military occupation or soft-power exerted by the two major powers. Not to mention the Chechens, Avars and Circassians who would have to be permanently neutral or hostile to both Russia and Persia. In Warband, this would give Persia an ahistorical advantage, as it would have all of its starting cities and lords concentrated on the northern border and would be able to steam-roll these states with impunity while the Russian lords would be spread literally from the top of the map to the bottom.
Didn't know much about any of that. However, I appreciate the historical input. Maybe Chechens could be bandits or something, eh?
Regardless, Persia was really underplayed at the time despite being the most notable and important co-belligerent at the time (more so than the US). It'd be nice to see something in this period give them some credit, but we can still dream.
From what I can tell, Docm doesn't intend to use the whole map. Mind you, it's a shame Persia won't be included as one of the characters I have right now in this Mount and Blade mod is Persian serving under France. I'd totally support implementing Persia, though.