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Lipbalmplease said:

Project Managers are essential for large projects. You hear a lot about how they hinder the process in game development when it goes wrong, but never good things when it goes right. Regardless, TW don't have them, and maybe they should have:

"The company is developer run, there are no business suits that pull the strings. Different people are responsible for different things, but everyone has some responsibility. I am not unhappy with what we have achieved during EA. Would I like to have achieved more? Sure." - Duh_Taleworlds c. 2022

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Thank you! I'm really tired of this narrative around gaming companies that every time something goes right its because the developers heroically managed to get their artistic vision pushed through, and every time something goes wrong its because upper management was smothering devs. Sometimes developers just mess up. Sometimes they aren't good at what they're doing.

Why would I buy another game from them? We're 4 years into the release of bannerlord and its still a mess with no meaningful improvements over its predecessor. I frankly don't trust them to make a good game anymore.

Lipbalmplease said:

Look, I know the last one took about a year. During which there was dead silence from the devs and also since that refactoring there has been no update to the game even though that was kind of the POINT of refactoring.

But trust me, Refactor 2 - Electric Booglaloo is definitely going to be worth it...

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Isn't it refactor 3? There was one in like the first year of the game, wasn't there?

Lipbalmplease said:

I had this exact same conversation with this guy's a couple of weeks ago and when I pointed the exact same points out to him as you are doing now, he went to ground until crawling back out to start the exact same argument again with someone else.

He's arguing for the sake of arguing - the definition of eristic. They don't have the mental capacity, probably due to some level of narcissism, to admit they are wrong, hence why they ignore your points and deflect. Some people are just like that. It's a sad life to live and definitely not worth your time.

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I've shown him the Calradialand analogy twice, and both times its come up he has simply stopped posting instead of addressing it. I wonder why...

Gadheras said:

Why would modders have to wait until the game doesn't get updates any longer, is complete, etc though? Could just as well lock yourself to a set version of the game and keep mod for that version. The whole concept of they need to be done with the game so modders can have their time seems far fetched to me. It's done with other games.

I didn't say that 1.2.x or 1.3.x should be a dlc or not. I said would you consider the game complete, if 1.3.x was a dlc? I find the whole game is not complete because it get updates baffling. I have games on steam that keep throw updates at me all the time. Games I completed long time ago, some several times. For me a incomplete game would be something similar to when BG3 was in early access and we had just the first chapter available.

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Baulder's Gate 3 is still incomplete. The third act was rushed, and the scars from its cut content are clearly visible in game, and from what I've heard they don't intend to go back and finish that.

But even when it was only the first act. From a complexity, depth, and featute standpoint, Baulder's Gate 3 was a far more complete game then than Bannerlord is now. All of this is to say nothing of the levels and frequency of updates and support since each game's "full release."

I don't even like BG3 and this is blatantly obvious. Maybe once this game has gotten an equivalent of 2 more acts worth of content since "full release" we can revisit this comparison.

JunKeteer said:

I'm at the point where they need to just ****-off, and I'll get my own trade (modders) to finish what they couldn't.

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To add to this; in this analogy just because we brought in new builders (modders) to do the rest of the work does not mean the original workers can consider that they 'finished the project'. They left a mess that somone else has to finish for them.

Gadheras said:

Bad example, as a car with 3 wheels isn't useable. You could fine play the game at release. It had bugs and issues, but you could fine complete a run on the campaign. As with most open world games of this nature it suffers late game, it all become about paint the map. Just as with any Total War game I got or similar games. If you define a game how complete it is based on what things you want to see in it or not, then no game out there would really be complete.

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Then replace 'missing wheel' with 'no ac, radio that only plays am stations, a bluetooth system that never works, seats with no coverings, and no cupholders'. Whats everyone complaining about? You can drive the drive the car, don't you know cars didn't always have things like radios and ac as standard. You guys are just ungratful and have ridiculous standards. Be happy you got a car at all.


As somone else said, the Day Before was playable at launch. So nobody should have complained about it, right? Just a bunch of entitled manbabies. The game was "complete"

Lets say I tell you I'm opening up an amusement park. We'll call it... Calradialand. I show you a map of the grounds, tell you that it will have a hot dog stand, a tilt-a-whirl, a ferris wheel, a full experience with classic amusment park stuff!

We'll put aside that for some reason it takes me the better part of a decade to get it completed. But when it does finally open up you and many others excitedly buy tickets. When you get there you see that the grounds are almost entirely empty save for a ferris wheel, a hot dog stand, and a titl-a-whirl.

"Where's the rest of it?" You ask.

"What rest?" I say. "That's everything I told you was going to be here. its not my fault you expected there to be more."

You're frustrated, but you already bought your ticket so you decide to go for a ride on the tilt-a-whirl. So you get in and you sit down and wait. And wait. And wait. And nothings happening. Angry, you ask me what gives.

"What do you mean?" I say. "You're on the tilt-a-whirl."
"When does the ride start?"
"It doesn't have any power." I tell you. "I said there'd be a tilt-a-whirl, i never said it would be on. That's your fault for having expectations beyond what I told you."

On it goes. You go to the hot dog stand and there's no hot dogs. 'I never said it would serve food. I only said there would be a hot dog stand. You just got these big ideas in your head beyond what I promised' you go to the ferris wheel and there's nobody working it. 'When did I tell you there would be workers? I just said a ferris wheel would be here. You read more into it than what I said that's on you.'

By now all of my customers are angry. Many are wondering why it took me so long to make this place when its clearly unfinished. To address those issues, I take the flyer and cross out where it says 'a full experience' and hand it back to you. Safe in the knowledge that I've now amended what I said and nobody should be mad anymore. I have done nothing wrong, any frustration rests solely on the entitled customers whose money I took for having expectations for what an amusment park should have. If people still complain to me, I can simply tell them that not every amusment park needs to offer the same things, and if you aren't satisfied with Calradialand then you should go to six flags or cedar point instead.

By your arguments. I did nothing wrong with my amusment park, and my paying customers should be thanking me for the park existing at all. And besides, they spent all day there, and the amount of hours they spent at the park means they got their money's worth.

Gadheras said:

TaleWorld released the game, keep support the game, and work on it over year and a half after it left early access

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I'm gonna stop you right there. Deciding to leave early access was an entirely arbitrary label. It had nothing to do with the state of the game or how complete it was. The game barely changed in the transition from early access to "full release". If I slap a label on a car saying "finished" when its still missing a wheel, I shouldn't be praised for continuing to work on it after its "done"

The only reason they did a full release is because the game needed to go to consoles. There is no significant changes in gameplay or features since from before and after the arbitary "early access" label. Continuing to work on the game afterwards isn't praiseworthy, its the bare minimum of whats to be expected.

Lipbalmplease said:

Someone then on the street then tells you, "hey, just keep driving the car. If you don't drive it, how will they know what they should and shouldn't fix." - this is you. This is your argument.

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Actually, going by his post history his response is more "how many hours did you drive the car? You got to drive it, that means you got your money's worth." Or "You're such a whiner, you should be thankful they're working on the car at all, most companies don't fix them after they've hit the road."

Reminder to everyone that 1.2 came out in June of last year.

Gadheras said:

There was more to it than failling to make a good game in regard of Donkey Crew and Snail Games. If I should have measured TaleWorlds by Warband, I would never gotten Bannerlord. and if I should have measured Donkey Crew by Last Oasis, I would never gotten Bellwright (which is actually quite fun even with warts and all, the flaws of early access).

I find mysef play Rogue Trader and keep thinking BG3 did this and that much better. Or that was better in path finder, or That mechanic is a ripp off from Righteous crusade Do I put the stink eye on OwlCat because of this? Why should I? In just about any game I play I find some other games that done something better or something I did prefer/liked more.

Regardless what we feel is missing or lacking in Bannerlord, the game was a success. The sales numbers and number of players playing the game still today lver year and a half after release is proof of that. Players wanting more out of a game will always be a thing, regardless of what game it is. A game studio will only invest "so much" resources into a game post release. End of the day it's a business and they need to make new things. Bannerlord isn't a live service game they keep milk daily.

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What point are you trying to make here? Don't ask for games to be better because its only ever going to be how it is right now? That you shouldn't complain about a half baked product because the company made money? That you should never compare games to each other?

You might as well just come out and say 'just shut up and consume product' at this point.

Say the line Taleworlds!

Spectacular Knight said:

We may have to accept that Taleworlds has a different idea of what a "worthy successor to Warband" is.

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Anyone have that quote where one of the devs said they envisioned Bannerlord as a 'call of duty style action game'?

Tongueless Orvar said:

We all have our likes and dislikes, and if you hate the game why do you message on it’s forum?

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For most of us its because we want to see this game be a worthy successor to Warband. Not a half finished mess still missing features after 4 years.

Gadheras said:

They showcased taking over back alleys long before it was put into the game. They put in what they said they would. Or maybe you have a source where they said they would do more/different in regard of features/mechanics?

You people seem to have a tendency take 1 feather and turn it into a whole chicken coop. Just because things doesn't turn out exactly the way you want them to doesn't mean they not there. I been looking quite hard to find any sort of bullet list of things TW promised they would put in the game they didn't. Maybe you got a copy to share? You can take over a bunch of back alleys, you can play as a bandit/criminal if that is the style you want. Do you need something special to hold your hand telling you are a criminal?

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You're so right. I didn't do anything wrong when selling people tickets to Calradialand. I never promised the hotdog stand would have hotdogs in it or that the tilt-a-whirl would have power. Its the customers fault for assuming those things. They're just a bunch of entitled manbabies if you ask me.

Lipbalmplease said:

I wouldn't bother mate. You bring up a rebuttal and he deflects, ignores and then brings up something else. It's not worth your time arguing with him. He seems to like to get the last word in also so you'll be here all night .

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Its alright. I got one more.

Lets say I tell you I'm opening up an amusement park. We'll call it... Calradialand. I show you a map of the grounds, tell you that it will have a hot dog stand, a tilt-a-whirl, a ferris wheel, a full experience with classic amusment park stuff!

We'll put aside that for some reason it takes me the better part of a decade to get it completed. But when it does finally open up you and many others excitedly buy tickets. When you get there you see that the grounds are almost entirely empty save for a ferris wheel, a hot dog stand, and a titl-a-whirl.

"Where's the rest of it?" You ask.

"What rest?" I say. "That's everything I told you was going to be here. its not my fault you expected there to be more."

You're frustrated, but you already bought your ticket so you decide to go for a ride on the tilt-a-whirl. So you get in and you sit down and wait. And wait. And wait. And nothings happening. Angry, you ask me what gives.

"What do you mean?" I say. "You're on the tilt-a-whirl."
"When does the ride start?"
"It doesn't have any power." I tell you. "I said there'd be a tilt-a-whirl, i never said it would be on. That's your fault for having expectations beyond what I told you."

On it goes. You go to the hot dog stand and there's no hot dogs. 'I never said it would serve food. I only said there would be a hot dog stand. You just got these big ideas in your head beyond what I promised' you go to the ferris wheel and there's nobody working it. 'When did I tell you there would be workers? I just said a ferris wheel would be here. You read more into it than what I said that's on you.'

By now all of my customers are angry. Many are wondering why it took me so long to make this place when its clearly unfinished. To address those issues, I take the flyer and cross out where it says 'a full experience' and hand it back to you. Safe in the knowledge that I've now amended what I said and nobody should be mad anymore. I have done nothing wrong, any frustration rests solely on the entitled customers whose money I took for having expectations for what an amusment park should have. If people still complain to me, I can simply tell them that not every amusment park needs to offer the same things, and if you aren't satisfied with Calradialand then you should go to six flags or cedar point instead.

Gadheras said:

I take it as you don't have any acutal reference to show for then, and all you run with is that one sentence from the steam page.

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So steam pages don't count as advertisement? Mentioning an upcoming list of features there doesn't actually mean anything? Removing said sentence from their steam page after people already bought the game on the expectation that this would be included is fine? Why are you dismissing that as though its worth less than anything else Taleworlds put out. If anything its worth more, its removal is proof that they knew they promised something they couldn't deliver. And instead of owning up to it, they chose to try and sweep it under the rug and pretend it was never there.

You're excusing the todd howard school of lying. 'See that mountain, you can climb it' when talking about the world and exploration. And then when people find out that you can't explore all the mountains falling back on 'no I only said you could climb that singular one, its not my fault you thought the game had more in it' its ****ty and manipulative. And you continously defend that kind of misdirection, as though the company somehow has no idea how its words are going to be received. Its horribly incompetent and a refusal to admit to mistakes at best, and outright malicious deception at worst.

Translation: we won't get any idea of whats in the update until the update comes out and we can read the patch notes

4 months now with no word beyond 'its not coming this month'
The last few versions of this game were simply crash fixes and bugfixes. The last time there was anything more than that was 1.2.5, which was back in November. Which is still far from a substantive update to the game. 1.2 was back in June. We're quickly approaching a year since then.

Lipbalmplease said:

Either that or he threw his toys out of the pram and deleted his account after TW didnt appreciate his outburst on their behalf and flagged him.

Either way, it's was the most exciting thing on the website since the MostBlunted days seeing as TW have abandoned here.

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Can't say it wasn't deserved I suppose.

I miss MostBlunted...