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You could even do it in sieges. For castles leave the keep doors open and then put in the empty sprites inside the keep, spawn an actual physical version as a soldier dies, give it AI after it runs out of the keep. For cities you can do the same, or spawn sprites in the hollow areas of the cities that we can't go to. Same principle.

Akka said:

Did you bought a starving third-worlder time ? My company charges 73 €/h for my time, 500 € would literally barely be enough for half a day. And I'm just a regular, mediocre dev in a regular non-IT-focused company.

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I didn't put out job ads or anything. Literally was working on a mod by myself when a skilled modder pitched in to help with questions and it shifted to me offering him commission to do the leg work for me. I've also commissioned artists to create models for me before I picked up some Blender skills myself. The mod market is not saturated with 200k/yr devs who are looking for a second job. It's no different than artists doing artwork commissions. Some ask for more than others.

And people here are super entitled. How dare someone make a mod for a commission/donations/money. The nerve! You'll never be able to get free mods again!

The language choice people are going with to paint how detestable they find the concept as a paid mod is all too telling of their simple-minded deduction. It's actually basic economics and really simple logic. You want a product. That product does not exist in the world. There is no one making that product. You can try to make that product yourself. You either don't have the time, tools, skills, or desire. What you do have is money. You have now created demand where there is no supply. You find someone who can supply. They now have demand and can provide supply for money. That product now exists. In a world where that product was already made before you asked for it, you don't have to pay for it.

It's almost like we live in a system where someone's labor can be traded for someone else's labor through paper notes backed by a central banking system that ensures person a's labor is worth person b's labor. Where there is no demand or supply for either of those, then a and b can decide on that between themselves.

What those of you who disparage the concept are doing is coming along and saying "stupid enabler" as person c. Person c sees a very basic free market concept taking place and becomes frustrated because somehow they reserve entitlement to person b's potential labor. Not actual labor. Potential. Person c lives in a world where person b was somehow not going to exist without person a, yet person b was going to - without existing - fill person c's needs without person c having the need to begin with.

Thus is childish notion of "my god, someone got paid so this dooms the free mod market."

Brb, going to tell my lawnmower guy he is supposed to mow lawns for free because his time isn't really that valuable to someone, somewhere, who is really peeved that people pay lawnmowers because it's a really simple skill that just requires time and effort that the person paying for the service would rather spend on other pursuits in their life.

Partake in it or not, I'm losing no sleep over having a tailor-made mod commissioned taking away from your share of the pie that doesn't exist. Your guys' logic is literally "he's paying for someone to not make mods for us."

Apocal said:

The closest I've come to game development is being a closed beta tester but I've dealt with contracting for software: $50,000 is about enough to get you laughed at. The amount you're looking at for fast, reliable work starts like in the mid six figure range and you need to be very clear about what you want.

Modders do a mindboggling amount of work for free because it is something they want to do. There are low odds they are going to value their time the same way when working on someone else's interests. Because that's called work.

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That is your experience. I've paid modders to make mods in the past. There is no market standard dollar amount. Some are worth more, others are worth less, and that's usually their judgement. It's no different than commissioning art.

Akka said:

To put some emphasis on it, I'm a developer (not a game developer, just regular boring company dev), and 50 000 $ is about what my company would charge for four to six months of my time. Just mediocre me.
So yeah, good luck assembling a "crack team" of dev with that amount ^^

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I commissioned about 100-hours of work for $500. It didn't require a "crack team" of devs. You guys are looking into specific wordage way too hard.

You want a good laugh? Go battle with Aserai or Khuzait nobles who aren't warriors. They will just yolo into your shield wall in the first ten seconds of the match and then die. Not their troops. Just them. One person on a horse.

Old-Bull said:

Can you find a picture of Doc Rivers fans crying, because his basketball team(that was still in summer work-outs) wasn't as good as one that played together for ten years, that was assembled by the front office of the staff that proceeded him.

That would be a lot more relevant.

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You're trying way too hard to be a Chad and you're coming off as Virgin instead.

Old-Bull said:

You guys are trying to give all the credit to Brytenwalda. It's not true. I give them credit, because the mod is fantastic. It's still a mod. They still used someone's engine, license, resources, platform.....They built the mod from the Mount and Blade engine. You can't change that. Brytenwalda didn't create a game genre that's part RPG, part medieval combat simulator, in a sandbox world. Taleworlds created that. Brytenwalda modded it.

You HAVE to give Taleworlds credit.

You're not on the Brytenwalda forums. You're on the TW forums.

Neither company is 100 percent responsible for VC. That's the truth.

Regardless, Bannerlord is still in Beta. Comparing it to a game that's been around for 10 years is stupid. Bannerlord still has to be finished. It will still go to the modding community.

Crying the sky is falling because Beta participation is down is absolutely meaningless. Taleworlds doesn't depend on micro-transactions. All of you have already paid full price.

What matters is how many people play the game when it's finished.

The rest is drama queen nonsense.

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Old-Bull said:

Then google Viking Conquest and tell me who's page it takes you to. Does it take you to Taleworlds or does it take you to the webpage of the Brytenwalda group? If you buy VC, who's bank account is that money deposited in?

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You're confusing developer with publisher. Brytenwalda developed VC, meaning they made it. TaleWorlds published it as a DLC, meaning they sold it. Are you telling me that Bethesda made New Vegas?

cyresdog said:

This game has not really any big Streaming qualities

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I do love watching high-quality, edited youtube videos of people's battles, though. But it is no surprise that every video features modded content. But yes, I get your point. TW needs to interact with their community much more. If they want to follow the Paradox model for their games, then they need to behave like Paradox devs - who regularly post on the forums and organize streams either directly or through the community.

kreamy said:

lets pay mod creators to make the mods we want. 5000 of us paying $10 will get a crack team to make the mods we deserve in a faster timeframe than TW can deliver us anything meaningful

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I've thought about this. Organizing a community that has membership fees so that we can hire modders to make the types of mods we want to see.

Nalgasucia507 said:

Y'all need to chill out, and get a life. This is a VIDEO GAME we are talking about here.

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The detail one could go into that would paint a clear picture of how ridiculous your post is wouldn't be worth the effort. As your simple thinking shows, not only would a quickly-thought of semi-intelligent response be disproportionate to your efforts, but it would go over your head anyways.

"Get a life," says the guy with 437 posts and 3 days online in a row. C'mon dude, do you not own a mirror?

I will add to the topic that I think the playerbase is shrinking because of how early access this early access is. Sometimes a hotfix will break something in your game. We were all begging to play this game, though. So I won't complain too much. But it really pulled back the curtains on how much BS TaleWorld was mixing in with the hype. The press previews look much better than the current product, and they were builds from 2018.

But yeah, TW devs are ghosts around here. If you don't speak with a person then after a while they become a stranger. Whereas mixing with the community would create bonds and there would be less animosity because the target of your criticism is someone you've had conversations with.

Akka said:

I think that, like a number of recent threads, it tries to spur TW into action. The lack of communication is really flaggerbasting.

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It does feel like an echo chamber in here. I remember when I first signed up last week I was excited to share some thoughts and ideas after about 400 hours of playing. Dead silence other than the bug reports section. It robbed me of my enthusiasm really quick.

For some reason, TW is surprised that many people want to play for 10+ years (in-game). There's so many issues that arise as time goes on in the game. Clans slowly become stagnant. Initially they would go extinct, but now they have kids. Problem is there is no 3rd generation, and the 2nd generation born after the game starts, get bugged out and don't do anything other than exist.

So between major factions and minor factions, I'm not sure why TW didn't plan for longevity in single player campaign.

Blood Gryphon said:

From the singleplayer plan - my comments will be in red for what is needed or complete. From my once over, it looks like we are still waiting on 90% of things they promised in the last official singleplayer "roadmap". Still lots to come.


Warriors of Calradia,

Today we will be sharing an update for some of our current singleplayer and engine related priorities with you.

As a general note, stability and performance will continue to be a top priority for us. Beyond that, you will find some of our other goals listed below. Please note that this includes both broad and specific, as well as, shorter and longer term priorities.

Campaign

• Kingdom & Politics
  • Rebellions - This will take some time but we are working on them. -needed
  • Granting/Relinquishing Fiefs -needed
  • Improvements to Kingdom Decisions -needed/upcoming 1.5.6(1.5.5 hotfix had a little)
• Character System
  • We will continue to introduce missing or reworked perks for the remaining skills. Naturally, we will also fix bugged perks. -almost there
  • A child education feature that will allow players to shape their clan’s offspring before they come of age. -needed
  • An option to disable birth, death and aging. -needed (have but needed option to turn battle deaths off)
  • Skill Progression & Effects Balancing -needed
• Issues and Quests
  • Adding New Quests -gotten a few, more coming i believe
  • Further Improvements to the Issue Creation Algorithm -needed (some quests very rare)
• Main Storyline Content
  • Conspiracy Progression Quests -needed
  • Scene Notifications -unsure but probably needed
• Prisoner Recruitment Changes -needed (i think? or is the disciplinarian perk switch around?)
• Lame Horse Feature & Other Item Modifier Changes -got it
• The ability for players to break out prisoners from dungeons. -needed
• Pillaging conquered towns & castles. -needed
• Player Clan Party AI directives -needed
• Crafting Improvements -needed
• Simulation Health -needed(some with 1.5.5/1.5.6)
  • Adjusting Clan Tiers
  • Balancing Security and Loyalty
  • Improving the Auto-Resolution of Battles
  • Economy

Combat, Cameras, Animations & More

• Improvements to the campaign map camera. -needed
• Performance improvements and optimizations for combat. -needed
• Combat AI improvements for agents and formations in field battles and sieges. -needed
• Physics improvements and bug fixes. -needed
• Improvements to the Order of Battle system. -needed
• Multiple projectile support for some siege engines. -got it
• Spear Bracing -needed
  • AI Implementation
• Sally Out Mission Implementation -needed
• Animation Improvements -needed
  • Baking balanced and unbalanced animations together.
  • New animations and poses for Education, cut-scenes and more.
• Facegen Polish / Improvements -needed
• Mounted Penalty -got siege debuff in 1.5.5
• Sound Occlusion -unsure
• New music for taverns. -unsure

UI/UX -needed

• Performance Improvements
• Modding Improvements
• Crafting, Inventory and Party Screen Improvements
• Launcher News, Battle Scoreboard, Combat Order UI and Tutorial Box Improvements
• Gamepad usability improvements

Art -needed

• Adding new scenes and improving existing ones.
• Crafting pieces optimization.
• Weapon scabbards improvements.
• Additional new armor and costumes.
• New tavern illustrations.

Engine -needed

• Fixing crashes and bugs for the stable & beta versions.
• Performance & smoother gameplay improvements.
  • Optimizations for low-end PCs (especially low memory and HDD users)
  • Terrain performance improvements for the World Map.
• Replay Editor
• Modding tools bug fixes & improvements based on user feedback.
• Modding tools documentation improvements.

Other -got some

• Localization related work
• Save Game Groups

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Add another one to the list of promised things: full-blown modding tool that has live modding (similar to Detailed Character Creation, but fully integrated into the game and characters could be modded on the fly even in conversation windows). This was one of the features they actually gave previews of. There's actually quite a bit of stuff that was in previews and press showings of the game that were pulled from EA and still missing almost a year after release. (Gang warfare - we have a light version of that now which is a quest - using your companions to take over parts of a city, etc...)

Another thing that is needed is the game having some kind of longevity. I can't remember which dev it was, but one of them said "you guys are playing past 10 years?" That changed my perception of this game's development a lot. No wonder why the clans slowly go extinct after so long. And now a bandaid is they reproduce but kids born after the game start are bugged.

HalfMetalJacket said:

Imma look into those tests.

Still, plate armour is simply not a thing in Bannerlord, so I have no idea why its been brought up.

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I have a bad habit of treating forum topics like IRL face-to-face conversations. Somewhere along the line, you end up 500 years later than the original topic talking about the birds. If railroads were like the internet, most passengers would die.

HalfMetalJacket said:

14th century combat is an entirely different beast the period that Bannerlord is set in

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The point I was making was both against the argument that plate armor is impervious to weapons, and that TaleWorlds should adopt a similar tone to the fighting in that specializations will be crucial.

HalfMetalJacket said:

And sure, we have videos of long bows vs plate armour- longbows losing to plate armour that. Same with crossbows. No seriously, watch the vids that someone linked and you'll realise how wrong you are on that. Plate armour makes you virtually impervious to harm.

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This is why it's important to do a study on the subject that isn't reliant on a simple field test through controlled methods, anecdotes, and deductive reasoning.

There are modern examples of plate being penetrated by both bolts and arrows;



To go into further analysis of how and why, this is a good collection of both contrasting evidence.

There are a number of notable modern testing that concludes both yes and no to the question of can longbows penetrate plate. Such as English Longbow Testing by Matheus Bane.

Historically, contemporary sources around the times of the battles that get famously used as an example of plate vs bows such as Agincourt and Poitiers give mixed results. But same as Crossbows, using empirical evidence can support one century of warfare vs. heavy armor, but not another. For example, in the 15th century the Taborites used steel-prod bolts successfully against armored imperial forces.

There is perhaps no uniformity when it comes to the forging of armor in pre-industrial times (that is to say, in its strength/durability/etc.. not design), leaving one knight vulnerable whereas the one next to him is fine. Factors such as the different bodkins used, range, skill, angle, point of where the bolt/arrow makes contact, even something as simple as how dry the weather is plays a role in determining the results.

I know it's a movie and so takes some liberties when balancing art vs science, but the creators of the movie "The King" did some research, read some historical sources, and went to see a few medieval tourneys to get an idea of how to choreograph the action scenes. The way the movie portrays medieval combat is - I think - a good narrative for Bannerlord to follow to get a decent balance between gameplay and realism - in terms of combat, not plate armor.

The movie is focused on King Henry and finished with the Battle of Agincourt. It does a good job with costumes, so you see a mix of plate, mail, and gambeson. Most of Henry's kills are actually with a dagger that he uses to cut and pierce critically exposed areas. Throughout the movie, swords, lances, even maces show that most of the fatalities are a result of exhaustion leading to vulnerability, rather than slicing and dicing through heavily armored foes. There's a scene where a character - Falstaff - in heavy plate armor is trading blows with another, and no one is dying, then a rider comes along and bashes Falstaff in the head with a blunt object, probably a mace. Falstaff removes his helmet and is visibly very shaken, fighting for air after getting the wind knocked out of him. He pulls down the mail from his head and tries to regain his composure. In the scuffle, he has lost his sword. He gets back up and there is no room to move or even turn as both English and French soldiers are pressed against each other. He starts bashing with his arms in frustration as he is helpless in the sea of plate armor.

Then in a following scene, Henry drops his sword and instead goes to his dagger, as the fighting is mostly heavily armored soldiers wrestling with each other. He starts stabbing in the armpits, the neck, anywhere that is exposed. And it takes a while for his opponent to pass out.

There is no sword-swinging bravado save for a few pitched moments. It's a really believable fight. Even the terrain is a factor in the battle. No one is going into a fight gracefully. Even when Henry recovers from the ground after a scuffle, he looks around and freezes up for a moment as he tries to figure out what to do in the mad melee, right before a horse knocks him back down to the ground.

As for plate armor being impenetrable, this is false. Longbows and crossbows were the bane of European nobility, especially crossbows which allowed quickly trained peasants to kill knights. English longbows were famous for nullifying plate armor. Not only do we have videos of this on youtube, but it can be seen in tapestries and historical art of the era.

However, it is not to say plate armor was pointless. Just because two types of weapons can render it obsolete, not only is there a high chance of not being hit, but the chances of the wearer encountering the many other weapon types made plate usable even up until the 20th century. To this day, plates are uses in body armor to high-enough effectiveness that it can make the difference between penetration or not. Nobles and warriors were known to carry their plate armors with them everywhere they went, even if they weren't going to use them most of the time. It was so valuable, that just having it meant you were richer than most. Another good depiction on the big screen of this that comes to mind is the movie "The Mission" where Rodrigo carries his armor with him everywhere, and even while trying not to drown while being carried down a fast-moving river, spends all his energy on trying not to lose his armor because it is his entire estate's worth in the New World.

Anyways, these are all things you just don't get from Bannerlord, currently. The game lacks depth at this moment, and everything is left up to the player's imagination. I hope TaleWorlds picks up the slack in depth, and doesn't just hope modders will save the day. Especially right now, since their patches regularly pull the rug out from under modders and has resulted in many modders abandoning this game until it becomes more stable.

There's still plenty of room for development. These days, 9 months is nothing and many games are going the early-access/prolonged alpha-beta stages for years. I wouldn't be surprised if Bannerlord stays in development for a few more years and then gets a steady stream of DLC for the rest of the decade. It's becoming the norm that games are live-environment development now, where the customers are the testers. The market is splitting off into two types of games - decade(s)-long enterprise with on-going development similar to Paradox model, or annual sequels/spinoffs similar to Call of Duty model. There is an outlier in-between those two extremes, but the 21st century is polarizing everything, even game development.