Will FailWorlds ever apologize and explain what happened?

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The game definitely has gaps and persistent - sometimes self-inflicted - issues that have been rightfully shown here for sure. That said, it's not all 100% horrible and the sales numbers speak for themselves and will continue to do so no matter what anyone does to complain. I'd love to think all that extra CapEx would pay for more developer staff and product management talent to roll out features and changes to meet the public roadmap, but it's not our product.

I do have to ask, how much did you parents hate you for you to come on here and demand something so embarrassing? Even if this was meant rhetorically, as if the developer has any damn reason to apologize to you, let alone any of us. Holy ****, that is some next level entitlement
 
The game definitely has gaps and persistent - sometimes self-inflicted - issues that have been rightfully shown here for sure. That said, it's not all 100% horrible and the sales numbers speak for themselves and will continue to do so no matter what anyone does to complain. I'd love to think all that extra CapEx would pay for more developer staff and product management talent to roll out features and changes to meet the public roadmap, but it's not our product.

I do have to ask, how much did you parents hate you for you to come on here and demand something so embarrassing? Even if this was meant rhetorically, as if the developer has any damn reason to apologize to you, let alone any of us. Holy ****, that is some next level entitlement
stop trying to adjust quality and success of a "artistic" product on sales. Initial video game sales ALWAYS happen due to marketing, name and hype. Unknwon game jewels sold like crap, only to years later be discovered as such classics, and such a list is MASSIVE, much bigger than "hyped successful games".

Games can be sold through buying critics (happens most of the time, not too different from films and tv shows when it comes to hollywood productions), pushing hype, making over-the-top trailers and claiming gameplay experiences which they do not have, never had and never would. You see that pattern emerge in phone games constantly, you can also see it on "free-2-play but it was really pay-2-win" for most platforms, all AAA companies did it and we have some odd cases like No Mans Sky (which did it too and luckily for their fans they at least tried to fix it)

I can call in examples for all of those with proof and more, but I won't bother, your statement makes me look down upon you hardly though, for it's like praising charlatans for selling all-cure medicines during middle ages. "OH BUT THE MEDICINE'S A SUCCESS, IT SOLD!"

PS: And even though they may cash-in on a early success, their company can't hold ground if backlash happens, which would basically plummet their name beyond recovery. They aren't EA or Bethesda or Blizzard to hold ground with millions of dollars being lost due to effing up. On TW the effect would be devastating because they'd not sell any reasonable amounts on future releases. No Mans Sky's Hello Games might still, but that's because they've spent time and made losses on actually developing the game further.
 
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Lol, I never thought I'd live to see the day devs would be expected to apologize to people who bought a game (still in EA, mind you) and are disappointed at the result. Well, tough ****. You'll be disappointed for the rest of your lives if you haven't noticed, and I'm not talking about games only. What's next then, you go to a restaurant and order a meal for two, the food tastes like crap and you demand an apology?
What if you buy some stocks that don't perform well? Will you demand an apology from Wall Street as well?

What puts me at ease is that the most vocal are always the same 2 men and a dog who are constantly resentful, mostly because the vast majority of the reviews are positive. I think I can understand their pain though - sometimes democracy ain't that fun, huh

Of course, I am kinda disappointed as well, I agree the game was dumbed down and still buggy - but hey, that's ok, maybe they will fix most of it, or the modders will add meaningful content. We will have to wait...and then some more.

So no TW, do not even think of apologizing. Do not let them instill the obnoxious canceling/doxxing(and any other stupid new slang you have to google) into gaming.

It ürür, kervan yürür
 
Lol, I never thought I'd live to see the day devs would be expected to apologize to people who bought a game (still in EA, mind you) and are disappointed at the result. Well, tough ****. You'll be disappointed for the rest of your lives if you haven't noticed, and I'm not talking about games only. What's next then, you go to a restaurant and order a meal for two, the food tastes like crap and you demand an apology?
What if you buy some stocks that don't perform well? Will you demand an apology from Wall Street as well?

What puts me at ease is that the most vocal are always the same 2 men and a dog who are constantly resentful, mostly because the vast majority of the reviews are positive. I think I can understand their pain though - sometimes democracy ain't that fun, huh

Of course, I am kinda disappointed as well, I agree the game was dumbed down and still buggy - but hey, that's ok, maybe they will fix most of it, or the modders will add meaningful content. We will have to wait...and then some more.

So no TW, do not even think of apologizing. Do not let them instill the obnoxious canceling/doxxing(and any other stupid new slang you have to google) into gaming.

It ürür, kervan yürür
I don't trust them, personally, but I have to agree that asking for an apology's quite ridiculous, I mean, wouldn't change ****
 
Lol, I never thought I'd live to see the day devs would be expected to apologize to people who bought a game (still in EA, mind you) and are disappointed at the result. Well, tough ****. You'll be disappointed for the rest of your lives if you haven't noticed, and I'm not talking about games only. What's next then, you go to a restaurant and order a meal for two, the food tastes like crap and you demand an apology?
What if you buy some stocks that don't perform well? Will you demand an apology from Wall Street as well?

What puts me at ease is that the most vocal are always the same 2 men and a dog who are constantly resentful, mostly because the vast majority of the reviews are positive. I think I can understand their pain though - sometimes democracy ain't that fun, huh

Of course, I am kinda disappointed as well, I agree the game was dumbed down and still buggy - but hey, that's ok, maybe they will fix most of it, or the modders will add meaningful content. We will have to wait...and then some more.

So no TW, do not even think of apologizing. Do not let them instill the obnoxious canceling/doxxing(and any other stupid new slang you have to google) into gaming.

It ürür, kervan yürür

Does this sound like a demand?

"Honestly, I know its not much - but I think it would go a long way for someone from TWs to apologize and explain what happened"

No. It doesn't. Not sure what level of education you completed, but perhaps you need to brush up on your reading comprehension skills.

Nothing I said in my post is inaccurate. Sorry you are so triggered.

TW should explain what happened, and they should explain how they plan to fix it in the future. And PERSONALLY, I think they should apologize for falling so short of the bare minimum of expectations.
 
I don't trust them, personally, but I have to agree that asking for an apology's quite ridiculous, I mean, wouldn't change ****

I think acknowledging mistakes and admitting their were problems is a good first step to rebuilding their reputation - rather than pretending everything is great.
 
I think acknowledging mistakes and admitting their were problems is a good first step to rebuilding their reputation - rather than pretending everything is great.
corporate way of dealing with errors is pretending nothing happened, it's a stapple. Also, most of the time, when apologies are made by any corporation, they are just PR maneuvering and don't mean **** to them, either they fix the stuff or don't fix the stuff, apologizing doesn't give a refund for those who can't cope with the bad shape of the game, nor will it make the game better. Bethesda did apologize for FO64 - didn't change ****, games they release are still crap, FO64's still crap, and it'll remain so forever. Same goes for Blizzard with Diablo 3 - at least they've removed part of the BS, but not much later they've released Diablo Immoral Immortal.

Corporations aren't real people, they are "artificial beings" who have no feelings nor any objective outside of profits. The people who compose a corporation aren't in control of it neither, most are just employees being slapped around and exploited for their work, but have no say on what happens. And if the corporation is on open market capital, not even the owner has real control of decisions... So that's why corporate apologies don't mean **** and it's silly to want it in the first place.

I, however, still believe Armageddon decides most things with the game development, but that's a belief because I'm not so sure. M&B and Warband were both developed with massive input from the community, he was very active on the forums, and those games were much better than Bannerlord on a Game Design perspective. BL seems much more "corporate" in results: dumbed-down for consoles - Good portion of the PC interface looking like a crap port from consoles (at least not as bad as Skyrim's) - Design limitations that only happen in consoles - ignoring the community - rushed release announcement. I won't know unless I see him taking control and showing up + starting to listen to the community, or when we see him trying to make some decision or change yet it magically disappearing. Would be something I'd like to ask, but that's something we can't do without compromising his own or the company's public image in the process (which's why we won't ever get a straight answer)
 
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Think about this like an adult: From a marketing standpoint, why would you admit that your product was sub-optimal? Marketing is all about making your product look good so people buy it. If you admit that your product isn't as good as it could've been, that's counter-productive. People could read that and think, "Hmm, the game must not be very good if the devs have had to issue an apology, so I won't spend my money on it." It's one thing if there are people whining on the forums. I'd wager nearly every game in existence has caused some whining. It's another thing if the developer publicly says "Sorry guys, we ****ed up." And TW isn't just a few people with a dream anymore, they're a company, which is why they have PR and marketing people whose job it is to make sure the game keeps selling and the money keeps rolling in. Frankly, their coffers might need the replenishment, after paying a team to develop a game for 10 years. I think I read somewhere they had over 100 employees now (correct me if I'm wrong). That's a lot of people who have worked a lot of hours. And don't forget the technology, the software, the research, the office building they're in... **** costs money, yo. A lot of money. Even if the devs wanted to say something, they have to think about how a statement like that could affect them, and make decisions from a business standpoint.

Also, what other people have said about entitlement. There are some seriously entitled people on this forum. I get that you're pissed off, but seriously, calm down. Sometimes games disappoint. It's upsetting when it's the game you've been excited about, but unfortunately it happens. And it's easy to get caught up in the lynch-mob effect where you're angry, so you read a bunch of posts from other people who are (even more) angry, which makes you even angrier and you feel even more like you're right and you get further and further into the rage and drama. I remember getting caught up in that when the last Skyrim DLC got delayed for 1 or 2 months. Huge drama. People were so pissed off. I was too. And you know what, in hindsight, we were all a bunch of entitled pricks. There's a lot more to life than one video game. There's a lot more to gaming than one video game. Take a mental step back and look around, broaden your perspective. Find the next game you're looking forward to playing. Go for a walk and get some fresh air. Think about where you want to live, places you want to see, jobs you might enjoy having. Think about that girl or guy you haven't had the courage to try your luck with, and the next time you see them, go for it. Bannerlord's just another video game.
 
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Wow, look at this horde of whiners. You know you whiners are the minority, right? You have no power in the greater Bannerlord community.
I'd say we're more like the whiners of the steppe. Just need our Khan to unite us and descend upon Turkey.

Honestly I haven't been anywhere - be it Reddit, Youtube, etc. where I haven't seen a fair amount of critical comments regarding the release. If there's a happy safe space for Bannerlord I don't know where it is. Maybe some Discord server I suppose?

I am impressed there's ~20K playing this game daily (though it must be entirely singleplayer), but there's a couple reasons for that:
  1. It takes 100s of hours to do anything in Bannerlord. For someone who can only play maybe 30-60 minutes couple days a week, yeah that means you're going to be playing this game til the end of time. Would not be surprised if a lot folks are still rolling the same character at EA start, probably with the misguided goal of getting 300 Athletics or something.
  2. Pretty sure vast majority are using mods at this point too. If you have to mod a game to have fun with it, not a very good game IMO. I literally will not play this game without at least RTS Camera.
Other then that only folks I see putting a positive spin on Bannerlord are those who stream it. Which makes sense; if you sell cigarettes obviously not going to mention cancer and all that.

Failworlds did nothing wrong they took our money and used it for a console port.
LOL, yep

“These two years have been a long and challenging road”, said Armagan Yavuz, CEO of TaleWorlds Entertainment, in a statement today. “Developing a massive and complex game such as Bannerlord, for several platforms, and in the middle of a pandemic, is no easy task – and I’m incredibly proud of our team for its relentless, brilliant work. Despite the challenges, it’s also been a rewarding path: we’ve found many synergies that we weren’t initially expecting between consoles and PC, synergies that have made the game grow and be better than it would have been in other circumstances. We’re looking forward to putting the game in the hands of our amazing community, which has been supporting us in consoles since Warband”.
This is really as close to an apology as you'll get. Basically development was going to be slow, but pandemic made it even slower. And yeah we released Bannerlord as EA title on PC for $$$ so we could actually start working on a console versions for more $$$.

Console versions being their main focus has been pretty apparent for well over a year with controller support and UI changes. They made their money on PC by duping everyone into EA. Now they're going to sell console kids a slightly more polished, but still pretty unfinished game.

Thank goodness Taleworlds doesn't sell food - everyone would get food poisoning.
 
Think about this like an adult: From a marketing standpoint, why would you admit that your product was sub-optimal? Marketing is all about making your product look good so people buy it. If you admit that your product isn't as good as it could've been, that's counter-productive. People could read that and think, "Hmm, the game must not be very good if the devs have had to issue an apology, so I won't spend my money on it." It's one thing if there are people whining on the forums. I'd wager nearly every game in existence has caused some whining. It's another thing if the developer publicly says "Sorry guys, we ****ed up." And TW isn't just a few people with a dream anymore, they're a company, which is why they have PR and marketing people whose job it is to make sure the game keeps selling and the money keeps rolling in. Frankly, their coffers might need the replenishment, after paying a team to develop a game for 10 years. I think I read somewhere they had over 100 employees now (correct me if I'm wrong). That's a lot of people who have worked a lot of hours. And don't forget the technology, the software, the research, the office building they're in... **** costs money, yo. A lot of money. Even if the devs wanted to say something, they have to think about how a statement like that could affect them, and make decisions from a business standpoint.

Also, what other people have said about entitlement. There are some seriously entitled people on this forum. I get that you're pissed off, but seriously, calm down. Sometimes games disappoint. It's upsetting when it's the game you've been excited about, but unfortunately it happens. And it's easy to get caught up in the lynch-mob effect where you're angry, so you read a bunch of posts from other people who are (even more) angry, which makes you even angrier and you feel even more like you're right and you get further and further into the rage and drama. I remember getting caught up in that when the last Skyrim DLC got delayed for 1 or 2 months. Huge drama. People were so pissed off. I was too. And you know what, in hindsight, we were all a bunch of entitled pricks. There's a lot more to life than one video game. There's a lot more to gaming than one video game. Take a mental step back and look around, broaden your perspective. Find the next game you're looking forward to playing. Go for a walk and get some fresh air. Think about where you want to live, places you want to see, jobs you might enjoy having. Think about that girl or guy you haven't had the courage to try your luck with, and the next time you see them, go for it. Bannerlord's just another video game.
honestly? I think the desperation of frustrated players comes from the fact that the entire industry's shoehorning crap after crap and good game releases have been almost non-existant since late 2000s. The illusion is that this hasn't happened because this degradation of the industry was slow and few people noticed when it begun (I was among those few). I'd make pleas at the start of this trend for ppl to be more demanding and less complacent with dumbdowns and less gameplay, along with somewhat asking that everyone joined some sort of uproar to stop the DLC nonsense.

Now, over a decade later, we're shoehorned endless DLC with full game price tags and less content than former expansions, games are being released incomplete and dumbed-down even if compared to their own franchise, console focus has destroyed most if not all PC RPG&ARPG video game jems (Dragon Age, Diablo, Mass Effect, Elder Scrolls, Fallout, even Vampire Bloodlines which was so overboard that even the publisher fired the developer and there has been a complete cut of news about this sequel for over a year). Warband was a mix of RPG RTS and Arcade-ish Combat, responsible for introducing the entire model in which countless medieval combat games were built upon, ie: Mordhau, War of the Roses, Chivalry, even Kingdom Come: Deliverance has been heavily influenced by it. Yet we are seeing the same pattern emerging here, and that's bad news for us. If TW succeeds at hooking braindead gen Zers who have been feeding the industry for the past decade, we're in for a permanent low-quality standard within their releases which means another beloved franchise destroyed by crap yet massive public that has no standards what-so-ever.

That's generally how I personally perceive when I see backlash and whinning, doesn't mean I adhere to it, I simply criticize the game, give suggestions and feedback, complain when nothing's done about it and move on. In fact I was so sure BL had way too high chances of being bad, mediocre at most, that I've stepped away for nearly 2 years and came back now for no logical reason other than boredom. I kept showing up in the forums, reading some feedback, asking a few questions than I'd disappear for many more months, that cycle lasted from 2020 up til last month. Yet, I'm still trying to "help" by flexing my criticism left and right, pointing out towards more educated guesses over what's going on and keeping a level head about it, it's not like the money I spent on this game's gonna hurt me at all, at most I'll have had half-arsed fun with a half-arsed game for more hours than wasting my money on a crap movie in a theater that I've been mislead into believing was good, which currently is very likely to happen with this woke dementia that has happened all over the USA, specially Hollywood (that doesn't mean my country doesn't have it's fair share of woke idiots) and I say that being a left-winged sob...

In the end, it's likely that even if the game sucks, the engine seems to hold, and as long as the engine holds that means mods can fix it. It's not ideal, I'd rather pay modders for the game than the developer in cases like this (but I refuse to pay twice for anything), but it is what it is. I could probably mod the game into a marvel, but that would require too much time, too much effort, and that I re-learnt a lot of forgotten knowledge since I've stepped away from game development around the time the industry went into this steep fall (over a decade ago), so I'd rather not unless I'm overtaken by some unforeseeable passion about it (very unlikely).

Anyway, I can understand both sides, I'm not going to go brainless "I hate you X developer" over any of TW's staff because they've never shown to be a-holes like some public figures from AAA companies ("Toad Howaward" for example), I do find it discouraging, though, because if they fail with BL, I'll not be here for anything else ever again, TW will simply be "just another one" and life goes on. At least the meme in my signature will hold forever :lol:
 
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That is not going to happen. If they were to aplogize, they should do something to correct that which is impossible because if they were able to do something right, they would do it right at the start. Making a mistake is a little problem but admitting making a mistake is a huge problem if you're not willing to correct it.
 
Couldn't care less about an apology, but I'm genuinely intrigued as to what happened during development. My own theory is that Armagan was a victim of his own success and simply wasn't up to managing a team in an ever-increasing company rather than sitting around in his apartment wearing shorts whilst programming Warband. Woolly-headed direction and lack of focused leadership would be my guess. I reckon there's split resources between Bannerlord and a to be announced game as well, which would explain the glacial progress and crawl to the finish line.
 
Couldn't care less about an apology, but I'm genuinely intrigued as to what happened during development. My own theory is that Armagan was a victim of his own success and simply wasn't up to managing a team in an ever-increasing company rather than sitting around in his apartment wearing shorts whilst programming Warband. Woolly-headed direction and lack of focused leadership would be my guess. I reckon there's split resources between Bannerlord and a to be announced game as well, which would explain the glacial progress and crawl to the finish line.
1. They did the entire engine from scratch (several?) times as the previous ones probably didn't support the new seasonal/generational cycles. You can see this clearly during development. Pictures from 2012/13 have shown us a very archaic engine, similar to warband. Then from then on to 2016 they improved upon it but something obviously didn't work. I think from 2016 they redid the entire engine and started development anew. You can see that in the videos and pictures. The whole design changed. From the banners to the battles and the campaign map, during this time they also ditched the randomised battle maps and replaced them with hand made ones (disastrous choice for modders). The first ever "child" born in Calradia (Ruwa dev blog) was accomplished only in November 2018, just a year and a half before EA release.

2. There were rumours Armagan had disagreements with a developer who was in charge of much of the roleplay stuff around 2016. As a result he left the company and his content was axed. Whether this caused the engine redoing or whether it was just coincidental, I dont know. We dont even know for sure what happened. In any case, roleplaying in this game is nonexistent. Maybe thanks to this, maybe not. We only know we cant ever talk to anyone
 
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Couldn't care less about an apology, but I'm genuinely intrigued as to what happened during development. My own theory is that Armagan was a victim of his own success and simply wasn't up to managing a team in an ever-increasing company rather than sitting around in his apartment wearing shorts whilst programming Warband. Woolly-headed direction and lack of focused leadership would be my guess. I reckon there's split resources between Bannerlord and a to be announced game as well, which would explain the glacial progress and crawl to the finish line.

True. I would take an explanation. I just want them to admit that they fell short and they know the game is not what was expected.
 
There's a lot more to life than one video game. There's a lot more to gaming than one video game. Take a mental step back and look around, broaden your perspective. Find the next game you're looking forward to playing. Go for a walk and get some fresh air. Think about where you want to live, places you want to see, jobs you might enjoy having. Think about that girl or guy you haven't had the courage to try your luck with, and the next time you see them, go for it. Bannerlord's just another video game.

Made me think. Thanks man
 
I think acknowledging mistakes and admitting their were problems is a good first step to rebuilding their reputation - rather than pretending everything is great.
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Wow, look at this horde of whiners. You know you whiners are the minority, right? You have no power in the greater Bannerlord community.
You're probably right, we might very well be the minority.
And that's the problem with the industry. With society as well. People are actively praising corporations/companies for lying or cheating them and are rabidly defending them on top of everything else. Apparently, savagely attacking and mocking people for having critical thinking is the new Tik Tok.
 
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