Best v1.5.3 Siege Strategy vs. Lvl 3 Cities?

[hieronymos2]

Wanted to figure out best approach to sieging lvl3 cities (and castles)--especially Imperial ones, as they can be tough nuts to crack if strongly garrisoned. What's the best way to optimize speed, reduce friendly losses, and minimize wall damage? Or is it even possible to achieve all three of those goals? I'll settle for just the first2...

For lvl1-2 settlements, I usually let my Fian Champs & elite horsearchers slowly wipe out the defenders while my infantry and heavy cavalry wait in shield formation by the ladders. Friendly losses are very light, and the walls aren't destroyed.

But a recent siege of lvl.3 Amitatys foiled my usual strategy...especially as neither archers or horsearchers would obey command to reform in 'loose' formation during assault, and my archer casualties were unacceptably high (until the game in this case fortuitously crashed). So now I'm building trebuchets; but what mix of siege engines is best? I'm thinking 4 Trebs...but maybe a mix of lighter engines is better?

And while the Trebs create breaches, what about building Siege Towers and a Ram? Are either worth it? My experience so far with 'Towers is they suck worse than ladders, as troops only use 1 of 3 ladders, and rush up singly to their deaths...

So if anybody's figured out a comprehensive siege strategy for higher lever fortifications, please help!

 

[thefirst1nvad3r]

If you have high point in Engineering, you can fast build catapults and ballistas (normal and fire) to break city engines and also reduce enemy troops.
At this time I don't use Siege Towers because soldiers don't climb it, but Rams are still good to breach the gate: sometimes a breach in the wall is not enough for troops that don't automatically walk through it.

 

[Apocal]

So now I'm building trebuchets; but what mix of siege engines is best? I'm thinking 4 Trebs...but maybe a mix of lighter engines is better?

Four trebs is better. You can still get stuff done with catapults but if you want to drop the walls, use trebs. They chew through walls in about a week or less. The one situation this will not work is late-game powerhouse towns (f.e. Sanala, Marunath, Vostrum, Lyracon etc.) with prosperity of 8-12K. That's because settlements build siege engines based on their construction bonus, which draws from prosperity. You just have to bite the bullet and make multiple assaults to clear the walls, then go up the ladders.

The hard way.

 

[hieronymos2]

The one situation this will not work is late-game powerhouse towns (f.e. Sanala, Marunath, Vostrum, Lyracon etc.) with prosperity of 8-12K. That's because settlements build siege engines based on their construction bonus, which draws from prosperity.

You're saying these cities will build/repair engines fast enough to nuke 4 Trebs?

You just have to bite the bullet and make multiple assaults to clear the walls, then go up the ladders.

And what about adding 2 Towers and 1 Ram to the mix? Or would assaulting infantry still get chewed to bits?

Presumably you're saying to use archers/crossbows to clear the walls, while infantry wait at the ladders? Or do you add a simultaneous infantry assault in with the ranged wall-sweepers?

 

[hieronymos2]

If you have high point in Engineering, you can fast build catapults and ballistas (normal and fire) to break city engines and also reduce enemy troops.
At this time I don't use Siege Towers because soldiers don't climb it, but Rams are still good to breach the gate: sometimes a breach in the wall is not enough for troops that don't automatically walk through it.

How many kills do you get by just bombarding the garrison with engines? And how many days do you spend in bombardment?

 

[Apocal]

You're saying these cities will build/repair engines fast enough to nuke 4 Trebs?

Yes. Any high-prosperity town, really; the names are just the ones that typically can go that high.

And what about adding 2 Towers and 1 Ram to the mix? Or would assaulting infantry still get chewed to bits?

I don't use siege engines. The more siege engines you add, the worse the AI acts in battle. No rams, no towers and I put away any trebs that appear.

Presumably you're saying to use archers/crossbows to clear the walls, while infantry wait at the ladders? Or do you add a simultaneous infantry assault in with the ranged wall-sweepers?

I usually clear the walls first and then send the infantry up (on Charge orders (F1-F3)) but there have been a few castle sieges where the archers had nothing to clear until my infantry occupied the walls.

 

[thefirst1nvad3r]

How many kills do you get by just bombarding the garrison with engines? And how many days do you spend in bombardment?

That depends so much on the Engineering skill. For now, I have a low level (40) and I need a few days to build two catapults, but sometimes I see less than 100 enemies soldiers die or get injured after a bombardment. I assume with a high-level skill the advantages can be really interesting.

 

[hieronymos2]

I assume with a high-level skill the advantages can be really interesting

You're speaking of the Engineering siege perks? Otherwise, Engineering just determines speed of engine construction/repair, right?

 

[hieronymos2]

The more siege engines you add, the worse the AI acts in battle.

I was thinking of building just 1 tower, then using it my self solo if opportunity allowed, to snipe & pick off defenders...or does the tower use the wall space that the ladders otherwise use?

 

[thefirst1nvad3r]

You're speaking of the Engineering siege perks? Otherwise, Engineering just determines speed of engine construction/repair, right?

Not only speed, it also affects the power of engines like catapults, onagers and ballistas, so they can be fast and make more damage.

 

[hieronymos2]

Yes. Any high-prosperity town, really; the names are just the ones that typically can go that high.

Have you figured out the cutoff point of where "city prosperity * fortification level * siege workshop bonus" > "party engineering skill" ??
I mean, shouldn't a high enough besieger engineering skill (with associated perks) cut into and/or trump city prosperity?

 

[CrazyElf]

As others have advised, the best way to get a castle is to breach the walls with 4 trebuchets over tine.

Not only speed, it also affects the power of engines like catapults, onagers and ballistas, so they can be fast and make more damage.

Yep. What is going to very interesting to see is what surges will be like once the Engineering perks are added in.

 

[Apocal]

Have you figured out the cutoff point of where "city prosperity * fortification level * siege workshop bonus" > "party engineering skill" ??
I mean, shouldn't a high enough besieger engineering skill (with associated perks) cut into and/or trump city prosperity?

Honestly, I didn't put that much thought into it. It was just trying to take 11,000 prosperity Sanala that made me notice, then 9,000 prosperity Danustica (which has, or had, a bugged arrangement that only allowed 3 trebs) where it really kicked my ass. Most likely a better Engineer (mine was 80ish) would change those numbers but I haven't worked out where the breakpoints are or anything. It isn't a particularly common situation to find yourself in, to be sure.

 

[Brodacious]

Haven’t tried this in the campaign, only custom battles. Make a save before and try getting all your men set up right in front of the gate and try your best to climb up a ladder by yourself and open up the gate. If you can make it by dodging and jumping down the wall, you can just charge in all your troops. You’ll probably lose some of your men while they are waiting in front of the gate but getting most of your army in intact through the front gate where they can flank the wall troops is really good.