Ranked mode + Imbalanced Factions are a bad idea

[Aprikosenmann]

I was always asking for ranked mode but I just realised that if you have fair teams the faction imbalance will decide most of the games.
Something has to be done in that regard. Lets be realistic, the factions will never even be close to balanced.

Spoiler: balancing classes

If you balance for ranked skirmish the casual skirmish will break. If you balance both the captain mode will be broken. Also siege balance will be broken. The 1.5 patch basically proved that. Also skirmish factions are not balanced any better than before.

Here the first workarounds that come to my mind:
-Observe the ranked winrates and remove all unfair matchups
-Only play mirror matchups
-Only play Vlandia vs Battania
-Implement Faction and Spawn swap

 

[Forsee]

Or just add factions pick - ban system with swap after each game like it was in every Warband tournament

 

[Zoonanay]

Faction and Spawn swap are the way to go, I think.

It's the standard in competitive round-based games, and keeps all the factions/matchups without losing any balance.

 

[OurGloriousLeader]

Spawn swap is the only logical solution that doesn't remove half the game content and hinder development of the meta for various factions.

 

[Younes]

+1 on faction swap. It gives both team equal chances.

 

[Brandis.]

Faction and Spawn Swap is the only way to have balanced ranked.

For example, let's say that Khuzait and Sturgia each have exactly 50.0% winrate in the highest tier of ranked (the equivalent to Challenger or Grandmaster except queue times are 2+ hours lol). It still comes down to who gets the lucky map. Some maps Khuzait will be favored to win, other maps, Sturgia will be the favorite. The only way to resolve this is side swaps.

Faction ban would be useful in this case. If Khuzait is unnaturally strong on a certain map, they can be banned and 2 more evenly matched factions can fight instead of a lopsided 3-0 3-0 draw.

Some other thoughts:

• Ranked should be open 8-12 hours a day, so that people will be more likely to populate it during that time. This also helps avoid uneven matches and infinite queue times in low pop hours.
• If parties are allowed in ranked opposed to limited to solo/duo queue, that will defeat the entire purpose.

I mean, the game is probably dead because the "no balance no content" strategy has bled out the player base, but there's a chance that full launch will revive many aspects of the game and I hope public matchmaking is one of them.

 

[Roadpork]

Faction and Spawn Swap is the only way to have balanced ranked.

For example, let's say that Khuzait and Sturgia each have exactly 50.0% winrate in the highest tier of ranked (the equivalent to Challenger or Grandmaster except queue times are 2+ hours lol). It still comes down to who gets the lucky map. Some maps Khuzait will be favored to win, other maps, Sturgia will be the favorite. The only way to resolve this is side swaps.

Faction ban would be useful in this case. If Khuzait is unnaturally strong on a certain map, they can be banned and 2 more evenly matched factions can fight instead of a lopsided 3-0 3-0 draw.

Some other thoughts:

• Ranked should be open 8-12 hours a day, so that people will be more likely to populate it during that time. This also helps avoid uneven matches and infinite queue times in low pop hours.
• If parties are allowed in ranked opposed to limited to solo/duo queue, that will defeat the entire purpose.

I mean, the game is probably dead because the "no balance no content" strategy has bled out the player base, but there's a chance that full launch will revive many aspects of the game and I hope public matchmaking is one of them.

If I am an audience want to watch a good game. the swap idea might be good for me.
Being a participant of the game, I will say: Just make different factions' settings closer. New players don't like to frequently change gameplays.

 

[AVRC]

The next MP patch is going to be pretty big and I am pretty sure it is going to change things around (especially for Khuzait for skirmish and Battania for Captain). That said, I agree that factions can never be absolutely 100% balanced as they have different strengths and weaknesses and all maps are different.

Therefore, we are planning to make adjustments to the game modes considering the arrival of Ranked Mode. Faction swap and other changes to increase competitiveness and the strategic depth are being discussed to decide how/what to implement.

Our main goal is to make sure that many different strategies, on top of the current meta, are viable AND possible to be countered, such as playing with more archers or cavalry. We don't want all factions to be played with the same composition and strategy, such as Khuzait being forced to play infantry heavy while they don't really have any and being considered weak.

 

[The_Great_White]

The next MP patch is going to be pretty big and I am pretty sure it is going to change things around (especially for Khuzait for skirmish and Battania for Captain). That said, I agree that factions can never be absolutely 100% balanced as they have different strengths and weaknesses and all maps are different.

Therefore, we are planning to make adjustments to the game modes considering the arrival of Ranked Mode. Faction swap and other changes to increase competitiveness and the strategic depth are being discussed to decide how/what to implement.

Our main goal is to make sure that many different strategies, on top of the current meta, are viable AND possible to be countered, such as playing with more archers or cavalry. We don't want all factions to be played with the same composition and strategy, such as Khuzait being forced to play infantry heavy while they don't really have any and being considered weak.

Is it arriving during the beast 3 tournament or can we expect the patch to be before the next season?

While I'm not a fan of horsearchers, I (a random guy who's loving warband) support your main goal and want to thank you for your communication and efforts!

 

[tom54p]

We don't want all factions to be played with the same composition and strategy, such as Khuzait being forced to play infantry heavy while they don't really have any and being considered weak.

I mean, you could have easily re-added the 3 spawns on the khuzait spearman while you were working on the other khuzait classes.
That could have definetly helped the balance a little more for the time being, making the overall skirmish experience better imo.
Instead we've had no changes for quite a while..
I really don't understand why not doing such a small change (or whatevers) and launching it with some other patches. Especially since this problem was pointed out multiple times on the forum.
I honestly expected that after the code re-work you could have changed the weapon's and unit's stats much more frequently, twisting them until an optimal result was obtained. I guess i got it all wrong.
On another note, i'm excited to see your next changes and i thank you for your work.
Hopefully you can show us, your own vision of the game.

 

[Younes]

What is the plan for the peasant class? It's currently of no use except when it's the only class u can afford

 

[Ikea Knight]

Our main goal is to make sure that many different strategies, on top of the current meta, are viable AND possible to be countered, such as playing with more archers or cavalry. We don't want all factions to be played with the same composition and strategy, such as Khuzait being forced to play infantry heavy while they don't really have any and being considered weak.

that sounds like a small jab at the current competetive rules in Europe.
As an admin I look forward to drop the class restrictions rule.

 

[AVRC]

that sounds like a small jab at the current competetive rules in Europe.
As an admin I look forward to drop the class restrictions rule.

Not really a jab, they are there because the players felt the need for them to be there. We are aiming to make changes so that it is no longer the case.

Looking forward to watching matches with no class restrictions after the patch.

 

[AVRC]

Is it arriving during the beast 3 tournament or can we expect the patch to be before the next season?

While I'm not a fan of horsearchers, I (a random guy who's loving warband) support your main goal and want to thank you for your communication and efforts!

There is no exact date for the patch, but everything is in final testing, should be close.

 

[Jufasto]

Without class limit, game is totally chatoic and unenjoyable for me. For ranked mode it should be only mirror because if one side is slightly better than the other side they can't show that skill difference when they get the worse faction (even in swaps because faction difference is huge)

 

[AVRC]

What is the plan for the peasant class? It's currently of no use except when it's the only class u can afford

We have some new mechanics we are testing out to help with the peasant-type classes.

 

[AVRC]

Without class limit, game is totally chatoic and unenjoyable for me. For ranked mode it should be only mirror because if one side is slightly better than the other side they can't show that skill difference when they get the worse faction (even in swaps because faction difference is huge)

It won't be an issue with faction swapping and faction difference won't be huge. That is the plan.

 

[The_Great_White]

There is no exact date for the patch, but everything is in final testing, should be close.

Thanks for your answer, this definitely sparked hope in me and perhaps other people aswell!

 

[Caps]

The next MP patch is going to be pretty big and I am pretty sure it is going to change things around (especially for Khuzait for skirmish and Battania for Captain). That said, I agree that factions can never be absolutely 100% balanced as they have different strengths and weaknesses and all maps are different.

Therefore, we are planning to make adjustments to the game modes considering the arrival of Ranked Mode. Faction swap and other changes to increase competitiveness and the strategic depth are being discussed to decide how/what to implement.

Our main goal is to make sure that many different strategies, on top of the current meta, are viable AND possible to be countered, such as playing with more archers or cavalry. We don't want all factions to be played with the same composition and strategy, such as Khuzait being forced to play infantry heavy while they don't really have any and being considered weak.

ranked is not coming on 16th (next patch) i assume?

 

[Ikea Knight]

Not really a jab, they are there because the players felt the need for them to be there. We are aiming to make changes so that it is no longer the case.

Looking forward to watching matches with no class restrictions after the patch.

Uh, then maybe I should mention that we probably won't remove the class restrictions during a running tournament.
I can't wait for that patch to go into live, though .