SP - General Bannerlord's Gameplay Has Gone Backwards In Multiple Areas From Warband

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1: I choose that over this weird terrain based system. At least it was "accurate" based on where you are standing. Now you are getting random forest terrains even though you are definitely at plains or vice a versa.

2: Inside the engine, there are no features like that. But it's not impossible for team to make it.

1: Yes but keep in mind that's because they have still made only a fraction of the battle maps they want to make. Once they've made more, they will have enough maps to accurately match the terrain.

2: Saying "it's not impossible for team to make it" is true but missing the point. Right now the coders at TW have a big workload ahead of them (as you can see from this thread, in 6 months they haven't even managed to re-implement missing features from the last game made 10 years ago!!) so they don't have time to be working out a random generating map system. On the other hand, the art/level design people do have time to make handcrafted scenes-- it's specifically what they've been hired for and what they're good at. It would make no sense at this stage of development to do something like this even if it's theoretically possible.

@five bucks
I agree with you about missing features in Bannerlord but unfortunately TW don't look like they'll add those features in Bannerlord as @Apocal stated.
There has been no direct statement either way on any of the features in the OP, except where mentioned in the OP; and as for lord duels, they've said it's "not currently planned" but even then haven't explicitly ruled that out.
 
have enough maps to accurately match the terrain
False. Their terrain calculation is problematic at the moment. It's not related to how many scenes you have. i.e. even if you are slightly close to a village, you spawn inside the village no matter what. Because your terrain type automatically becomes "village" even though it's not. They first have to fix that stupid behaviour and then add more and they should have to add more randomness inside the maps which will lead team to change all maps again - to make it more "dynamic" = extra development/time cost

It would make no sense at this stage of development to do something like this
It makes sense to do that in this stage of development if there is a demand for it. You wouldn't say "Oh lets make it procedural" after 2 years, when you have too many premade scenes on your hand. Now that - that would be a waste of resource.
Most people including me definitely didn't like this new unexpected weird Déjà vu terrain system. Some didn't notice what's the issue but still annoyed. Either way what they "promised" is not there. They said they wanted to switch to this handcrafted maps because it's easy to make with a special touch to each map so that they can have so much terrains that we won't notice. Well.. it has been 7 months ( + development time of years ) and how many maps do we have? How many new terrains are getting added in each release? Based on what they bragged about, we suppose to get several extra terrains in each update. And this is not the case. With this pace, you need to wait 2-3 years to get all battlefields - to have same feeling you got from the game the developed 10-12 years ago.
 
Their terrain calculation is problematic at the moment. It's not related to how many scenes you have. i.e. even if you are slightly close to a village, you spawn inside the village no matter what. Because your terrain type automatically becomes "village" even though it's not.
That can be fixed within the existing system by just being a bit more specific.
It makes sense to do that in this stage of development if there is a demand for it. You wouldn't say "Oh lets make it procedural" after 2 years, when you have too many premade scenes on your hand.
If you have "too many premade scenes on hand" you aren't going to need randomly generated ones though. The stage of development it would have made sense to implement such a system from scratch would have been pre-early access, not now that they have a system that already works well enough (even if it's flawed) and can work a lot better with even 10 or 20 more field battle scenes.
Well.. it has been 7 months ( + development time of years ) and how many maps do we have? How many new terrains are getting added in each release? Based on what they bragged about, we suppose to get several extra terrains in each update. And this is not the case. With this pace, you need to wait 2-3 years to get all battlefields - to have same feeling you got from the game the developed 10-12 years ago.
Yes progress has been very slow but scrapping the existing scenes and redoing the terrain system is going to make it actually slower (as well as delaying the gameplay features everyone wants).

All that time spent by the coders when they could use the same amount of effort to make major strides in gameplay content which we have been severely lacking.
 
If you have "too many premade scenes on hand" you aren't going to need randomly generated ones though.
You realistically never can reach a number big enough to "not need" more maps. What was meant was "you put too many hours into making lots of maps to waste them".
The stage of development it would have made sense to implement such a system from scratch would have been pre-early access, not now that they have a system that already works well enough (even if it's flawed) and can work a lot better with even 10 or 20 more field battle scenes.
The choice was completely idiotic (see above why), and yes it should have been different during pre-early access.
It's still not too late to change it, though, and the more they wait, the costlier it becomes.
 
That can be fixed within the existing system by just being a bit more specific.
This was just an example and as you can see, even for `fixing` that you need development effort.
If you have "too many premade scenes on hand" you aren't going to need randomly generated ones though
Even with 20 scenes, it will be dull and boring. As Akka stated, this is not a matter of how many maps you have. It will always give you the same feeling as you are playing Custom Battle with campaign units. It's, in essence, exactly what it is.
Yes progress has been very slow but scrapping the existing scenes and redoing the terrain system is going to make it actually slower (as well as delaying the gameplay features everyone wants).
All that time spent by the coders when they could use the same amount of effort to make major strides in gameplay content which we have been severely lacking.
Based on this I'm seeing that you are not very familiar with Game Development or Software Engineering. To simply put;
Gameplay Developers =/= Engine Programmers
So things they do inside the RGL with terrain won't stop other developers making new gameplay features. If the engine team had a green light, they would create that procedural system and meanwhile, environment artists could fix duplicated cities and villages/castles. Anyway, no need to continue this discussion because Taleworlds didn't show any intention that they want to implement a procedural system.




For example, here is another downgrade - from having fully integrated cities to old press f to teleport tavern type. I marked the start time

They explained this by claiming that it will reduce the loading times. Although I don't think that's the main reason. Because when you are entering the city, you are already loading too many objects and NPC's. Adding a few thousands of more polygons shouldn't double the time. Why I'm giving this example? Because this is also one of those point of no return moments. Even if you solve your loading issues now, you already have a lot of cities designed in old-skyrim way and to switch back this type of more immersive city will take extra time. That's exactly the point I want Taleworlds to avoid going into about terrains before it's too late. If I wanted to fight on a static ground with campaign units, I would open Custom Battle and play.
 
This was just an example and as you can see, even for `fixing` that you need development effort.
Even with 20 scenes, it will be dull and boring. As Akka stated, this is not a matter of how many maps you have. It will always give you the same feeling as you are playing Custom Battle with campaign units.
And yet, less so than the effort that would be required from the coders to build an entirely new system from scratch.
As for your statement that it will always give me the same feeling as playing custom battle with campaign units, I disagree. I don't think I would feel that way at all, I don't really even feel much like that now. There definitely needs to be more field battle maps but just 20 or so more and the difference between them would be pretty much unnoticeable, it's literally assortments of rocks and trees.
Gameplay Developers =/= Engine Programmers
That doesn't mean there isn't overlap. Or do you really think that the engine programmers are currently sitting around doing nothing?
 
And yet, less so than the effort that would be required from the coders to build an entirely new system from scratch.
Of course its less effort to create more maps compared to have a dynamic system. Its also less effort not to create anything at all and keeping the state in this way. Its also less effort not to create a game at all. So what exactly your point is? Whatever you do, it won't be unnoticeable. 20 maps aren't enough to give you that flexibility and feeling. And you should know that, they are randomly picking maps from list. So there is a chance that you can play on the same map in a row. To avoid that they have to keep a memory/cache-based system so that randomness can continue after a couple of maps. Which again, requires a development effort.
That doesn't mean there isn't overlap. Or do you really think that the engine programmers are currently sitting around doing nothing?
Apparently, you don't know how software development works. And yes, there isn't overlap. They are not even working on same codebase or programming language.
Or do you really think that the engine programmers are currently sitting around doing nothing?
Engine Developers are working on optimization for certain Video Cards as well as the other general optimisation. They are also in charge of porting the engine to other platforms such as PlayStation and Xbox among other things that you don't have to know at the moment.
 
Of course its less effort to create more maps compared to have a dynamic system. Its also less effort not to create anything at all and keeping the state in this way. Its also less effort not to create a game at all. So what exactly your point is? Whatever you do, it won't be unnoticeable. 20 maps aren't enough to give you that flexibility and feeling. And you should know that, they are randomly picking maps from list. So there is a chance that you can play on the same map in a row. To avoid that they have to keep a memory/cache-based system so that randomness can continue after a couple of maps. Which again, requires a development effort.

Apparently, you don't know how software development works. And yes, there isn't overlap. They are not even working on same codebase or programming language.

Engine Developers are working on optimization for certain Video Cards as well as the other general optimisation. They are also in charge of porting the engine to other platforms such as PlayStation and Xbox among other things that you don't have to know at the moment.
I disagree. I think you're speaking for other people as if everyone shares the same experience as you. To me, give me 50 or so total field battle maps and I probably won't even notice if I get the same combination of trees and rocks twice in a row (which would be very unlikely to happen anyway!). While I think most people would agree with you in principle that they want more field battle map variety, I also think the general lack of complaints shows that even now, most people don't find it to be a huge problem. My point is that less effort is relevant when time is at such a premium and every development action has an opportunity cost.

Yes, I'm sure they're doing that, but where's your source for this definite statement that nobody would be taken away from interesting gameplay features to work on this time consuming idea of yours? Also optimization is definitely a higher priority than random maps at this stage. The game still completely ****s itself during sieges.
 
I disagree. I think you're speaking for other people as if everyone shares the same experience as you. To me, give me 50 or so total field battle maps and I probably won't even notice if I get the same combination of trees and rocks twice in a row (which would be very unlikely to happen anyway!).
1) Yes actually, if you play a game for tens of hours, you WILL notice repetition. It doesn't come immediately, but after some time, you'll feel the "same-ish-ness", and after some more time you'll get some measure of being bored.

2) Don't forget that these 50 maps have a lot of categories. There are plains, and hills, and mountains, and forests and marshes and so on. It means that each category has much FEWER maps than 50. You probably have only a handful of map for reach terrain.
 
To me, give me 50 or so total field battle maps and I probably won't even notice if I get the same combination of trees and rocks twice in a row (which would be very unlikely to happen anyway!).
Check Akka's answer. 50 maps mean you need (50 x terrain type) maps - which is more than 200. If you are saying overall 50 is okay, then basically what you are saying is around 10 for each type - and you are claiming that this won't be noticeable? Then I guess you have a bad memory.
Also about this last statement, there is a name for this in Statistics and Data Science. It's called Gambler's Fallacy. Your chance of getting the same map is always 1/(map count for that terrain) no matter what. So getting the same map is always a 1/10 chance.

also think the general lack of complaints shows that even now, most people don't find it to be a huge problem.
People started to leave forum. Game is also swimming in bugs at the moment so it's hard to notice that.

but where's your source for this definite statement that nobody would be taken away from interesting gameplay features to work on this time consuming idea of yours?
I explained to you the difference between their codebase and their functionality as programmers already. I'm not going to do that twice.

I don't get your struggle. You are end-user, you don't have to think about how TW going to share its resources for a feature. That's not your job. Many people did much stuff for them without it's being their job already. Would having a properly implemented procedural terrain or heightmap based terrain would satisfy us both? Yes. That's all. Let them think the rest
 
Not that many people seemed to care when there were lots of people on the forum so it isn't a very big deal to most players.
Not that many people care about the game either since 95% of people you are mentioning dropped the game completely so it's not very logical to make an assumption from there, isn't it?
 
Not that many people care about the game either since 95% of people you are mentioning dropped the game completely so it's not very logical to make an assumption from there, isn't it?

Dropped completely? Just because someone hasn't played in a day (or a week or even a month) doesn't mean that. It is normal for an SP game to have most players drop off from the concurrent player counts.

At any rate, when you have a lot of people asking for one feature and many fewer asking for another feature, it makes more sense (if you care about player counts) to prioritize the first.
 
I'm tired of these pointless objections. I will reply to this one last time.

Just because someone hasn't played in a day (or a week or even a month) doesn't mean that.
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Go and check Steamdb. It's for around 5 months. Not for a week or even for a single month. Furthermore, any sane person would be able to evaluate the current state and shape of the game and its decrease in its userbase. I'm not going into the fact that this data is both SP and MP even though you think the game is SP only which is not the case. But okay if you want to live in Barbie World with unicorns, go ahead I won't stop you. You can pretend like this is extremely normal for an SP game and having more premade dejavu scenes will make you have more immersive battles.

At any rate, when you have a lot of people asking for one feature and many fewer asking for another feature, it makes more sense
Instead, let's tell to people "Not that many people care about that" whenever they want to say something about this and try to shut them down with weird arguments and later let's expect to see "too many people" asking about it.

Now back to your argument, you are claiming that it's normal that people don't play the game like the days in the release because it's somewhat normal for SP game but you are saying that " people were flooding the forum on release " but we don't hear many complaints about this issue. Well.. Don't want to be Sherlock here but perhaps it's because people don't play it anymore and therefore don't care? Which is also backed by the data we have.

I'm also aware of the fact that this is no easy feat and it requires time + implementation effort. But it's better for them to switch that before it's too late, where before point "Oh, we already spend hours in those scenes changing them would be waste of resource" is reached.

And lastly
I don't get your struggle. You are end-user, you don't have to think about how TW going to share its resources for a feature. That's not your job. Many people did much stuff for them without it's being their job already. Would having a properly implemented procedural terrain or heightmap based terrain would satisfy us both? Yes. That's all. Let them think the rest
 
I'm not going into the fact that this data is both SP and MP even though you think the game is SP only which is not the case.

Because it is stupid to blame pre-made maps on the MP population dying off. There are very few MP games with dynamic map generation and none of them are particularly popular. As for why I consider BL an SP game? Because most people don't (and have never) played MP.

You can pretend like this is extremely normal for an SP game

I don't have to pretend on that note. I'd be interested in seeing Steam charts for any (mainly or exclusively) SP game that kept its concurrent player numbers.

Now back to your argument, you are claiming that it's normal that people don't play the game like the days in the release because it's somewhat normal for SP game but you are saying that " people were flooding the forum on release " but we don't hear many complaints about this issue.

I am saying on release, using these forums and Reddit threads as a measure, not that many complained about pre-made maps. And it was you who quoted concurrent player numbers; obviously most people aren't still playing daily after six months straight.

I don't get your struggle. You are end-user, you don't have to think about how TW going to share its resources for a feature. That's not your job. Many people did much stuff for them without it's being their job already. Would having a properly implemented procedural terrain or heightmap based terrain would satisfy us both? Yes. That's all. Let them think the rest

Why is this directed at me? I haven't said anything about their resource allocation.
 
Read what I wrote there again. Try to understand it as a whole. Here is a starting hint: I didn't say MP population is dying because of pre-made maps. I didn't even say SP is dying because of this either.

Why is this directed at me? I haven't said anything about their resource allocation.
Because you are not making any much sense with your pointless argument hence I automatically assumed that you think it's not very logical to have procedural map creation because TW won't have a resource for it. If that's not your point and if your point is "I like having 5 maps and playing on same field" then we have nothing to discuss anyway. I strongly disagree.
 
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