Next tournament nation-based?

8v8 or 6v6? (Clan Tournament)

  • 8v8

    Votes: 71 68.3%
  • 6v6

    Votes: 33 31.7%

  • Total voters
    104

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Sure but it's a level of play that isn't really interesting to me personally - I think tournaments should always cater to higher divisions first to make the tournament more entertaining. You can predict the result of the division A league table during week 1, and then you're just waiting for the league table to end so the interesting knockouts start. Literally no one cares about division A league tables, they're just a waste of time.

Divisons are fun for division B and division C, but you can easily change the ECS format to still make it fun for those divisions whilst keeping the main event (division A) really enjoyable to watch and play in. Currently, it's making division A seem like a boring task just to cater to lower divisions, which is just counter intuitive. As controversial as it may seem, division A should always have priority as it's the higher level play and the main event.
 

As Deacon said, he'd change the format slightly to cater for lower skilled teams - how he'd do that I have no idea. 'easily' is probably the wrong word and seems to be based on the assumption that I already know a way, but 'easily' in the sense that it probably wouldn't take long to figure out how to do that and if it's manageable, then it'll clearly be better than the current league format, have faith.
 
I mean ECS is a KO tournament so you're always going to have this issue, you can make it double elimination but that still (if you're a middling team) is going to be getting smashed in the first match or so, going to the loser bracket, then either having a couple of ok games before being KO, or get KO instantly. So for all but the top 6 teams or so, you're getting less than 5 matches. WNL (and the other tournies that followed the same system) had the benefit of giving all teams roughly the same amount of matches. If you don't do this you end up with the scene shrinking due to most people participating just not having anything to do - I don't know if the numbers reflected this, but that was certainly the feeling after multiple ECS style tournies, and why Deacon changed to the quite successful WNL format we see in WRL.
 
The WRL format isn't engaging for higher level play, the chances are, all of the teams within division A will go to knockouts, so it's just a waiting game - does the tournament feel as epic as ECS2? Well no because the higher tier play has taken a backseat for other divisions and makes the tournament feel more casual, it's even worse because you're waiting for knockouts and by the time knockouts has arrived, the tournament just seems a bit boring because you've been waiting so long for the knockouts which would inevitably would have the same teams as week 1.

ECS2 was probably the best tournament when it came to hype, and it delivered, it was a fantastic tournament with (I believe) the most teams ever participated when including the ECL. Why was it good? Because the matches you wanted to see were happening on week one, rather than 5 weeks down the line when everyone has became lazy and half arsed because of the ladder stage. You have to find the correct balance between including lower divison teams but also making higher divison matches (the main event) more exhilarating. The current WNL format doesn't find that balance, and with higher division play taking a backseat, it causes the tournament to feel more casual.

It's actually quite sad that these new formats have been getting better for including teams but been detrimental to the actual competitive aspect of the tournament and makes it seem far more casual. I understand that the community isn't as big as it was, but currently there's no excitement with the current tournament formats, the main event SHOULD have special treatment because it's players who've been developing their skill overtime and newer teams should strive to be like that rather than just seeing divison A as another division which isn't all that exciting. ECS2 made me want to play Warband for 150 hours in two weeks because it was really entertaining to watch when I were a noob. Much like people spend 4000 hours on CSGO trying to improve because they have been watching higher tier play.

You could just have every other tournament be a really hype competitive ECS tournament mainly catered to higher level teams, then the next tournament be a league tournament so lower division teams can improve. I don't really think the lower division teams really care if they get into division A or not, because it's not all that exciting. Having tournaments which show the hype around being a higher level team is a must, how that can be done I'm unsure, but even though you're not including all the lower division teams, the hype would make lower division teams want to play more and start doing training matches together outside tournaments, ready to improve for the next league tournament.

League tournaments can be like the tournament before the tournament to see what level lower division teams are at, so they can improve and all that with the 'main main' tournament be an ECS style tournament where they can go through qualifiers and see if they're good enough based on these league tournaments. I don't bloody know, something that makes the competitive scene less stale would be nice. The WRL league format is just glorified scrims, where no one cares about the result. The only tournament that's done it well is the main WNL series, but that's because of reputation rather than it having a good format and besides the older WNL league format catered for higher division teams more than lower divison teams because it was all just one league table (which was still bad). It's actually sad to see the competitive aspect of tournaments deteriorate over the past 3 - 4 years.
 
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The WRL format isn't engaging for higher level play, the chances are, all of the teams within division A will go to knockouts, so it's just a waiting game - does the tournament feel as epic as ECS2? Well no because the higher tier play has taken a backseat for other divisions and makes the tournament feel more casual, it's even worse because you're waiting for knockouts and by the time knockouts has arrived, the tournament just seems a bit boring because you've been waiting so long for the knockouts which would inevitably would have the same teams as week 1.

ECS2 was probably the best tournament when it came to hype, and it delivered, it was a fantastic tournament with (I believe) the most teams ever participated when including the ECL. Why was it good? Because the matches you wanted to see were happening on week one, rather than 5 weeks down the line when everyone has became lazy and half arsed because of the ladder stage. You have to find the correct balance between including lower divison teams but also making higher divison matches (the main event) more exhilarating. The current WNL format doesn't find that balance, and with higher division play taking a backseat, it causes the tournament to feel more casual.

It's actually quite sad that these new formats have been getting better for including teams but been detrimental to the actual competitive aspect of the tournament and makes it seem far more casual. I understand that the community isn't as big as it was, but currently there's no excitement with the current tournament formats, the main event SHOULD have special treatment because it's players who've been developing their skill overtime and newer teams should strive to be like that rather than just seeing divison A as another division which isn't all that exciting. ECS2 made me want to play Warband for 150 hours in two weeks because it was really entertaining to watch when I were a noob. Much like people spend 4000 hours on CSGO trying to improve because they have been watching higher tier play.

You could just have every other tournament be a really hype competitive ECS tournament mainly catered to higher level teams, then the next tournament be a league tournament so lower division teams can improve. I don't really think the lower division teams really care if they get into division A or not, because it's not all that exciting. Having tournaments which show the hype around being a higher level team is a must, how that can be done I'm unsure, but even though you're not including all the lower division teams, the hype would make lower division teams want to play more and start doing training matches together outside tournaments, ready to improve for the next league tournament.

League tournaments can be like the tournament before the tournament to see what level lower division teams are at, so they can improve and all that with the 'main main' tournament be an ECS style tournament where they can go through qualifiers and see if they're good enough based on these league tournaments. I don't bloody know, something that makes the competitive scene less stale would be nice. The WRL league format is just glorified scrims, where no one cares about the result.
We don’t need epicness we need people who play the game. With the ECS format you are basically « excluding » 3/4 of the teams to have a fun time. All div C teams will play 2 matches only when the most important thing you want right now is to bring more and more div C teams to try and keep this scene alive. You won’t manage to revive Warband by only waiting for old top players to come back. They either won’t come back, or only a few will come back. You have to accept that the level dropped. We are not in 2015 anymore.
 
The level dropped but after the disaster that is Bannerlord, older teams have returned; it won't be the same as it was but that isn't the point, you can develop on that. Just because Division B and Division C teams can't play in a tournament that lasts 2 months which is far more enjoyable to watch and provides a real sense of competitive play doesn't mean they'll just vanish, they can train for the next league tournament which would come after the ECS (main tournament) to get good to eventually be able to qualify for the ECS. If people want to just 'play' then go play scrims. This is pretty much how it was before and it worked a hell of a lot better than it has for the past 4 years. It's actually slightly sad that higher more interesting play is neglected because people are scared these lower division teams would vanish after not playing for two months (if they were that interested in the first place they'd scrim against each other). Again, we can change the format to have more inclusion for these lower skilled teams, but there has to be a way to increase higher level competition which is most definitely more exciting.

If you want to let the scene become stale where eventually teams would just get bored because you're being naive believing the league format is actually good for the competitive aspect then be my guest. This stale mate will just roll into teams becoming bored and not participating. If we don't care at all about the competitive aspect and we're all just here to play for fun and have a good time, then sure the league format works fine - but if you seriously think that it's actually decent for competitive? Then you're objectively wrong.
 
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Disagree that it isn't engaging for higher level play, whilst you're right the initial league doesn't matter that much, it's still worth playing well in those early stages. No Div A team didn't take it seriously. The biggest problem with WRL was the 2 week gap for Div A which led to a drop in performance and hype.

But as I said, the best was the WNL format with a whole league as every game was worth playing and middling to new teams got lots of games as well. The issue was with picks or match selection which resulted in some sub-optimal matchups and even results.
 
8v8 too outdated tournament mode, other projects have been using the system for 5v5 a long time. Also in this case the "div" system will remain in 5v5, and there will also be more different teams... (maybe xd)
 
Sorry Fietta but Div A is less exciting than div B and C these days, you can already tell by the end of the signups that one of 2 teams are going to win the tourney, has been like that for past few. At least with lower divisions there's more competition. So maybe smaller teams would work better then to increase the competition.
 
I mean it reached the point that teams didn't even want to be put in Division A in the last WNL which was unimaginable in earlier seasons when everyone would squabble and say they deserved it.
 
Sorry Fietta but Div A is less exciting than div B and C these days, you can already tell by the end of the signups that one of 2 teams are going to win the tourney, has been like that for past few. At least with lower divisions there's more competition. So maybe smaller teams would work better then to increase the competition.

I mean that's exactly my point, Div A is shocking because there's no hype or real competition that came with earlier seasons of tournaments like the ECS, you should probably change the 'Sorry Fietta' to 'Sorry OGL', my whole argument was on the basis that the main event (Division A) is boring and makes the tournament seem casual. The whole point is to make a format where top teams want to play rather than just play to play because they're bored, we're trying to solve that problem.

I mean it reached the point that teams didn't even want to be put in Division A in the last WNL which was unimaginable in earlier seasons when everyone would squabble and say they deserved it.

Exactly, older tournaments that catered more towards higher skilled teams usually had far better and more enjoyable competition because of how the format worked. ECS2 was a prime example of this. Higher skilled teams shouldn't be on the same playing field as other divisions, it should be the main hype of the competition and should receive special treatment, otherwise, lower divisions have no means or hype around getting better, they just play to play. Not only that, you're waiting around for 5 weeks knowing exactly what that outcome of the league stage is, and by that time top teams are already bored.

Having two different format tournaments one after another with ECS being the 'main tournament' where people can watch and see great teams go head to head with a qualifiers (basically for top of division B since we don't actually have like 10 top teams), to see if they can enter the tournament. Then having a league tournament after the ECS where all teams can play and improve ready for the next 'main tournament', the hype that would come with the main tournament would revitalise an already stale community (like what Duck said). Including an ECL for the lower teams if they wish to participate would be cool, but in general having the main tournament (ECS) locked to players who've played for many years and reached the top would be good for hype.

The WRL format is detrimental if it became the 'norm', because higher level play will die out, which then has a domino effect on lower divisions where they just wouldn't care to be in that top division as there's no real benefit, or the benefit doesn't outweigh the drawbacks of having to lose almost every match. The WRL format is a good format for the 'tournament before the tournament', almost acting as another means to play the game. The MAIN event should be top teams going against other top teams from week 1, with a qualifiers for lower skilled teams to see if they're able to enter this grand tournament. Let's be real, how ****ing cool was ECS2, it was so ****ing exciting to watch and play in. There's a reason that every competitive esports to exist is a battle with all these big name teams like cloud9, faze 'n' all that crud, creates so much hype.
 
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if we want more interresting tournies we kinda need to change the format to 6v6. this way more teams with a chance of winning could sign up.
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no please
 
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