SP - Player, NPCs & Troops 📁 Creative Unit Aesthetics - archive

[DirtySanchez]

I think some of Battanian helmets are too "Roman like" and could benefit having their own style in almost the same shape of the current helms, but as fantasy spangenhelms with celtic style engravements. Like helms in spoilers (their engravements are more nordic/vicking style) but same kind of helmets with celtic style engravements could look quite good ! The Roman style helmets coud be reuse for some empire faction.

Spoiler: Inspiration for Battanian helmets

I tend to agree, the current battanian helmets look more like late Roman Castle helms . I'm interested to see if the new armors they are working on give Battania a more distinctive celtic look. I will likely be swapping a lot of equipment around in SP to fit my personal ideas of how I want the faction to look. There are Empire bronze spangenhelms that look more like dark age germanic and celtic helms imo and I may swap those to battania so that each faction has a more distinctive style. I also think the battanian helms on empire legionaries would look more like dark age roman legionaries than the current loadout.

 

[Piconi]

As James, Delinard, Terco and others, including myself have said much earlier in this thread, Romans did steal much of the Celtic technology and aesthetics, that these two cultures in terms of the military equipment can almost be considered innate for much of the time they coexisted. Although there are infinite number of good examples spanning through centuries, i liked this one very simple, yet effective example James has shown, even though not from the time period in which Bannerlord is set, the trend continues and includes it too:

Spoiler: Spot the difference

There are many parts of equipment and details they can be separated upon though.

 

[Al_Mansur]

That looks awesome. Looking forward to the rest of them!

Thank you. I should finish it in the comming days.

That kind of helmet is a must have, i was saying that long time, good job! One would think we would be getting the helmet of the guy from Bannerlord cover art . . .

Spoiler: Cover helmet

Phrygian transitional helmet should be be the flagship helmet in Vlandia, that full helm predecessor i would put on mounted knights . . .

Agreed, this phrygian faceplate helmet (which is actually Italian/German and not Siculo-Norman but whatever) should be the flagship Vlandian helmet, and as such I assigned it to the Vlandian flagship class: the knight (with improved armor perk):

Spoiler

In regard to the transitional flat-topped helm you are right, it would suit the mounted knights better. But I decided to not contradict Taleworlds design too much and let it to the improved sergeant armor.
The premade class system unfortunately forces us to make drastic choices. This is more interesting in terms of designing though as you have to think carefully about each item.

I'm interested to see if the new armors they are working on give Battania a more distinctive celtic look.

I didn't know that, I'll hurry finishing my redesign suggestion.

As to Battania, the main problem is that there is little to no source for late Dark Ages Gaelic and Brythonnic armors. However I remember reading in some devblog that the faction was rather based on late Roman Britain (time of Arthur).
EDIT: Armorican (Breton) first half 9th century cavalryman with quite peculiar helmet according to David Nicolle/Angus McBride. I don't know the sources they based him on, but as Bretons are Brythonic people originating from Britain, it could be a nice inspiration for some Battanians classes/units

Spoiler

 

[vicwiz007]

Hm. A shame to hear but understandable decision. I bet mods will either implement the other system or just add more sets of equipment. When it comes to modding, they find a way...

Other than technical issues like clipping you mentioned, having them look "not good" is part of the appeal to me. I assume capes are the most common clipping culprit (because you mentioned them and that's most noticeable to me so far in beta) but thats not a very common low tier item. I think Battania is the only one with it, though for singleplayer idk. Guess I'll wait and see for myself in sp. Maybe they look fine.

 

[Tlap]

love your ideas about factions.

 

[DirtySanchez]

As James, Delinard, Terco and others, including myself have said much earlier in this thread, Romans did steal much of the Celtic technology and aesthetics, that these two cultures in terms of the military equipment can almost be considered innate for much of the time they coexisted. Although there are infinite number of good examples spanning through centuries, i liked this one very simple, yet effective example James has shown, even though not from the time period in which Bannerlord is set, the trend continues and includes it too:

Spoiler: Spot the difference

There are many parts of equipment and details they can be separated upon though.

Yes the Romans pretty much copied whatever they found useful (gladius, spatha, celtic hemets and shields), and I think that there should be cultural overlap in terms of equipment represented in game. I've thought about this for my own "personal" mod, having equipment from neighboring cultures show up in the item pool of another culture to represent this cross-pollination. I would like to have distinctive cultural equipment though. Something that "looks Battanian" but that you could see worn by a Sturgian on occasion. I also wonder if we can set item pools for regional troops to differ from others similar to Roman legions near Persia/Parthia fielding cataphracts while those operating in Gaul didn't use them. Something to show that cultural overlap.

Like the whole forum argument about Sturgians looking like vikings and not Rus. Personally I think the Vlandians look more like 13th century knights than the Normans of Hastings time. Just my little pet peave I guess, but I plan on removing the surcoats(which were adopted during the crusades to keep their armor cool in the sun, afaik) cause I like the earlier plain mail look better. I few reskins to add more mail items, add a few goggled helms into the mix and they'd be good for me.

 

[AxiosXiphos]

I've almost completed my Vlandian MP classes redesign. There are so much ideas I can't wait to share with you.
A little glimpse:

Spoiler

This is stunning!

 

[Al_Mansur]

Personally I think the Vlandians look more like 13th century knights than the Normans of Hastings time. Just my little pet peave I guess, but I plan on removing the surcoats(which were adopted during the crusades to keep their armor cool in the sun, afaik) cause I like the earlier plain mail look better. I few reskins to add more mail items, add a few goggled helms into the mix and they'd be good for me.

This is the main reason I started to reskin Vlandians. Currently they do indeed look like late 12th - 13th century Western Europeans (up to 14th century in some cases), not much different from Warband's Swadians. Surcoats, but also coat of plates, flat-topped early helms, Morgan Bible style kettle helmets, heater shields, padded fabric/leather protections with vertical furrows, late medieval gothic mace, etc. This is in total contradiction with what the developers stated:
"Vlandian arms and armour are based on that of Western Europe from the 9th to the early 12th centuries."
In my reskining, each of the aforementioned anachronical elements is either limited (like the flat-topped early helm, limited to the improved sergeant armor), changed in favor of an earlier version (for example Carolingian kettle helmets instead of Morgan Bible ones) or simply removed (surcoats are among them). I focus on the 11th century, but there are distorsions as far as the 9th century and up to the late 12th century in order not to contradict Taleworlds too much as you may have noticed in the reskinned classes I already posted.
My Vanguard reskin is very "Hastingsoid":

Spoiler

This is an alternative version though, I am currently finishing the main reskin, more in line with the vanilla design and armor values.

This is stunning!

Thanks. Unfortunately this is one of the few I managed to portray in this beautiful way. Most of the others are ugly photomontages mostly based on drawings like that vanguard or knight reskin.

 

[DirtySanchez]

I do have to say that this thread is always the first thing I look at when I check the forums. The ideas and work of the contributors constantly impress me. I've found myself downloading multiple mods for Total War Britannia over the last week just to look at the skins different modders have made. I can't wait to see what comes out of the community once EA starts. TW's decision to add newer armors this late in development is another testament to the creativity and passion of the BL community, I look forward to seeing their new creations(fingers crossed for more "celty" battanians) But ultimately TW can never please everyone. Some want Rus-Sturgians and some want Norse-Sturgians. I'm sure the mods will start rolling in soon after EA starts so I can't wait to see the creativity that comes with them. This thread has even inspired me to start learning Blender and Wings3D

 

[Al_Mansur]

My main idea for the Vlandian sergeant improved armor:

Spoiler

Basically a dismounted late 12th - early 13th century Western euro knight plus that Vlandian hood which makes little sense when you wear such a heavy helm but looks cool and adds something to the whole gear aesthetically.
The vanilla transitional helm looks quite bad imo, mainly because of those weird and unpractical eyes slits. It could be improved, but I decided to go for a different helm (which is mine). I'll change it though, by another one inspired by an old Victorian early helm concept that I have to turn into a 3D model first. The concept is probably historically inaccurate, but I think it would perfectly suit the Vlandian sergeant for several reasons.
The vanilla surcoat looks good, but screams 13th-14th century so I couldn't keep it.
Will explain all these choices precisely in my complete post.

 

[Nemerius]

My main idea for the Vlandian sergeant improved armor:

Spoiler

Basically a dismounted late 12th - early 13th century Western euro knight plus that Vlandian hood which makes little sense when you wear such a heavy helm but looks cool and adds something to the whole gear aesthetically.
The vanilla transitional helm looks quite bad imo, mainly because of those weird and unpractical eyes slits. It could be improved, but I decided to go for a different helm (which is mine). I'll change it though, by another one inspired by an old Victorian early helm concept that I have to turn into a 3D model first. The concept is probably historically inaccurate, but I think it would perfectly suit the Vlandian sergeant for several reasons.
The vanilla surcoat looks good, but screams 13th-14th century so I couldn't keep it.
Will explain all these choices precisely in my complete post.

I really want them to change that silly helmet. Great improvement

 

[Terco_Viejo]

@alieser

 

[alieser]

Thanks for the great suggestions @Al_Mansur , Vlandia is fairly untoched yet, by the overhauling that we are doing behind the scenes by adding new sets. Any suggestions you manage to give now will be very valuable and very possibly make it to the game - if proper.
You're definitely right about the helmet issue for Vlandia, and I've noted it down.

 

[Falwick]

Very consistent work for Vlandia @Al_Mansur great job. Can't wait to see the complete redesign.

 

[Al_Mansur]

Glad that you like it guys.

@alieser
Thanks for the information and for paying attention to my suggestions! I'll hurry to complete them then. I started this just for fun, but now it is much more motivating.

Sharpshooter, both basic and improved armor:

Spoiler

As you can see, I took my inspiration into the Carolingian era, as artwork from that time shows some kind of early kettle helmets which are a good option to replace the current 13th century ones. That scale torso armor also somehow reminds Carolingian artwork. The padded jacket with front opening it replaces looks way too late medieval or even Renaissance/Modern era to my eyes.
Some would argue that there was little to no crossbow used in Western Europe back to Charlemagne's time and that consequently such Carolingian-inspired elements would not suit a crossbowman gear. Sure, but the Carolingian armies, as imperial forces, had something very technical that goes well with crossbows, which were mostly used by professional specialists in medieval times.

 

[anton97]

Glad that you like it guys.

@alieser
Thanks for the information and for paying attention to my suggestions! I'll hurry to complete them then. I started this just for fun, but now it is much more motivating.

Sharpshooter, both basic and improved armor:

Spoiler

As you can see, I took my inspiration into the Carolingian era, as artwork from that time shows some kind of early kettle helmets which are a good option to replace the current 13th century ones. That scale torso armor also somehow reminds Carolingian artwork. The padded jacket with front opening it replaces looks way too late medieval or even Renaissance/Modern era to my eyes.
Some would argue that there was little to no crossbow used in Western Europe back to Charlemagne's time and that consequently such Carolingian-inspired elements would not suit a crossbowman gear. Sure, but the Carolingian armies, as imperial forces, had something very technical that goes well with crossbows, which were mostly used by professional specialists in medieval times.

I'm sure these are more accurate to their Norman counterpart, but I actually much more prefer the older ones.

 

[Al_Mansur]

@anton97
The scale armor can remind the Normans (Hauberks of the Bayeux Tapestry have often been interpreted as scale armors, which they might be in a few cases), but the helmets are entirely based on Carolingian Frankish artwork (and might be all'antica stuffs, i.e. ancient-looking elements used to depict old events but which weren't used by the time of the artists, if used at all). I haven't outpassed the borders set by the devs though: "Vlandian arms and armour are based on that of Western Europe from the 9th to the early 12th centuries."
I grudgingly removed the 13th century kettle helmets because they are well done, but I had to in order to cut off this 13th-14th century look Vlandians currently have. I agree that the helmet I gave to the basic armor is way less sexy (btw it's from the game: vlandian_helmet_t_v). Maybe we could keep the former kettle helmet just for this class basic armor. However my improved armor helmet looks as good as the former one imo, and its scale cuirass way better than the weird padded jacket.
Also, I was afraid that my improved armor redesign would look too close to some Imperial classes because of the association of scales and all'antica-looking helmet, but at the end I think it keeps it Western European look, probably because of the distinctively Vlandian hood but also thanks to the squarish shape of the torso armor scales, making it very different from the roundish scales most other factions have.

 

[Kristjan108]

@Al_Mansur Could you post wherever you got that improved armor helmet design from?
It looks more like a 17th century Morion than any kettle helm I've ever seen.

 

[Shun]

I wanted to express my appreciation to the people contributing to this thread, trying to help to elevate bannerlords visual experience.

Thanks all!

 

[Falwick]

Glad that you like it guys.

@alieser
Thanks for the information and for paying attention to my suggestions! I'll hurry to complete them then. I started this just for fun, but now it is much more motivating.

Sharpshooter, both basic and improved armor:

Spoiler

As you can see, I took my inspiration into the Carolingian era, as artwork from that time shows some kind of early kettle helmets which are a good option to replace the current 13th century ones. That scale torso armor also somehow reminds Carolingian artwork. The padded jacket with front opening it replaces looks way too late medieval or even Renaissance/Modern era to my eyes.
Some would argue that there was little to no crossbow used in Western Europe back to Charlemagne's time and that consequently such Carolingian-inspired elements would not suit a crossbowman gear. Sure, but the Carolingian armies, as imperial forces, had something very technical that goes well with crossbows, which were mostly used by professional specialists in medieval times.

While having 13th century castle architecture(round keeps, bastions, etc.) I considered again, simple kettle hats makes less confusing for people. As you know Carolingian brimmed helmet looks much similar to the 17th century morion. It seems kettle hat could be the best option for sharpshooter to me, due to its cultural states and such, kettle hats much closer than Carolingian bible helmet. Scale armor over mail is very good though good job on that.