Recent content by SerHamlet

Precisely the same observations I had.

There’s a mod called “fix spear dude” seem to fix the infantry problem (let spear deal damage inside square & in close range). But I haven’t tested it since it replaces original file.

About cavs losing to archers, the deeper reason is armor efficiency: archers’ low proficiency & lousy weapons don’t affect the fact that they still deal huge damage to heavily armored cavs.

To fix this, I came up with two ideas:
1. Increase armor efficiency & rebalance weapon damage. (Maybe globally decrease damage but include spear: anti-cav; great sword: anti-infantry)

2. Add huge morale shock(to low tier/low pole-arm proficiency units) through horse charge, increase trample damage & knock-away effect. Thus cavs won’t strand in the blob of archers, but disrupt their formation and easily get out. (Also units should to be able to come back when not companies by enemies if more morale shock is implemented)

chiconspiracy said:

Why does it have to be overpowered? Any sharp, pointy weapon should cause SOME damage while held forward, even swords could be given that ability if they aren't extreme cutting types.. I'm not saying it should cut through knights like butter, and I even said a proper thrust should do more damage than just walking into someone with your spear lowered... as in, if you stab the spearman with a thrust, you will win if all he's doing is walking into you. What's OP now (and unrealistic as hell) is short weapons since you can just phase through enemy spears like they are made of vapor and then bludgeon them to death, since all non cutting polearms are awkward as hell and only have two attack angles, not to mention they still get caught up on allies when in a sheildwall, despite the latest fix (which only worked for swords and short axes.)

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I think you just don't get my point: yes in ideal world, spearmen should utilize their weapon length as an advantage. But reality is that in current phase, AI just can't be programmed to be smart enough to hold shied to approach enemies, or not to engage this new type of formation. Thus, it will be extremely boring.

sjblack2014 said:

Spears are the meta on the battlefield. Most infantry should be armed with them, just like how most modern soldiers fight primarily with rifles, not pistols, PDWs, or shotguns. I don't see anyone calling rifles OP.

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There’s a difference between reality and interesting game.

spamming one type of weapon might be historically accurate, but really boring for a game.

For instance, is it really so that axemen beat swordsmen, swordsmen beat spearmen and spearmen beat axemen? Not actually. But why would many game create such a trio? Cause otherwise why create sword & axe in the first place?

chiconspiracy said:

No... the AI (and players) shouldn't be so stupid as to just run into a lowered spearpoint, like people through history weren't. And a proper thrust should do more damage than just walking into someone with a lowered spear.

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Just in case you may not know: TW didn't let the AI programming as open as the other parts. So anything related to AI behavior is really hard to mod. Also my point still holds that it's just boring to let one type of unit extremely OP.

chiconspiracy said:

The thing is, charging infantry should get messed up by lowered spears, especially if they don't have metal armor or shields... Do you think you could run into a lowered longsword blade and not be hurt by it? A sharpened spear blade attached to an ash pole would be even worse. Sharpened steel goes through flesh with frightening ease.

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I said I suggest for game-balancing. What do you want if spear-bracing against all? Just sit there and watch opponent die all the way? That's just boring.

This is THE mod that really make me thrilled.

I don't know much about ancient warfare, but I would like to suggest a few game-balancing ideas:

1. A few seconds of preparation time before enabling 'spear bracing' mode. ( So that cavalry rear charge is still rewarding).
2. As someone mentioned above, once the 'brace damage' is dealt, infantry should get out of the mode. ( however, I think the momentum knock back mechanic is quite difficult to implement )
3. Set a lower speed threshold to the spear bracing, so that only charging horses above certain limit can be hurt by the mode. ( Otherwise infantry will melt just as cavalry do)
4. set a length threshold that only spears above certain length can activate this mode. ( I don't want to be wrecked by looter's pitchfork all the time )
*5. (This can be really tricky to deal with) Change cavalry AI that it never charge stationed spearmen formation up front. (perhaps grouping is a way to think about, but I don't know how exactly is the AI command code working)

Maeleth said:

mass and collision fixes to make cavalry great again

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Hey, I am really interested in this one, but found nothing related in nexusmod. Can you tell me which mod it is? Thank you.

GitiUsir said:

I think it would be less computational expensive if the bots had a simplified AI to

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A collective AI mind may work, but the block decision still should be made individually: noticing that shield block still have directions now. In fact, I think in VC, the shieldwall/spearwall do have a uniform AI command.

ShakenSpeare said:

Effective measure like this?

250 spearmen in a square and cavalry simply swim through all of it, and everyone skitters and morphs around.

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Exactly. I can forgive the first few lines get knocked down, but further inside formation, more friction should be added to resist charge. I kind of understand why charge damage is so pathetic now: TW must have tested the same charge stats as in warband (see pureblood horse with 50-60 charge in cheat mode), and that was way too OP. Since current physics engine can’t prevent cavalry from moving freely inside formation, they had to nerf the charge damage.

BugFeedbackbot said:

Does that help with the speed of combat though? Also, isn't cavalry a bit OP anyway in the current meta?

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Increase armor efficiency certainly slows down combat pace a bit ( not by much tho).

Cavalry is good, but their kill-efficiency isn’t comparable with their price (highest wage, need horse/warhorse to upgrade). Lead a bunch of Valandian knights through enemy archer line, you would anticipate a massacre, but actually there’s only few kills upon first contact. Calvary AI is still quite dope even with minor upgrade in beta.

enemy_man said:

Well what I meant was the difference between the two are "staggering" as in "shocking". But you have a point as well since the AI stopped blocking attacks in 1.1.0. Hopefully that is just a bug that will be fixed soon.

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Lol, I played Doom eternal before bannerlord launch, so the first thing I think about upon seeing ‘staggering’ is a demon immobilized.

enemy_man said:

I did some testing a few days ago comparing Viking Conquest infantry formations with Bannerlord and the difference is staggering.

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Indeed, in 1.1.0 beta, when a unit get hit once, he’s doomed to be combo to death. Armor protection is so pathetic that almost any hit result in staggering.

Crowquills said:

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I don’t get it: are you trying to convince me that shieldwall works just fine as it is now?

If so, I recommend you try some custom battles to closely see how infantry fight in shieldwall. It may be useful in certain situations, but the way shieldwall functions is far away from what it should be. As I mentioned before, units in shieldwall just can’t melee properly (especially against other infantry). I don’t mind that shieldwall may not have the same killing efficiency as other formation, but pls make them more resilient. The main problem now with shieldwall is that they are neither good in kill nor in survive.

Also, shield wall on plain can’t stop cavalry at all: cavalry can easily swim through the “wall”. What I would like is: cavalry can’t easily break through shieldwall, but can efficiently disrupt other loose formation. In totalwar, CA solved this with a rather simple method, add mass to units in shieldwall. I don’t think it’s a applicable in bannerlord, but similar can be achieved if charge mechanic is overhauled. But I guess that’s another story to tell.

Back to what you tried. I suspect the reason why square didn’t work, is that there’s not enough room on the hill for the square, and those infantry exposed on the plain got slaughtered then the rest rout. That’s what cavalry do all the time against infantry on plain. In custom battle, cavalry can easily beat infantry with few losses; while interestingly and surprisingly, with delegate command, imperial heavy horsemen suffer from severe damage against imperial archers on 200v200 / 400v400. (You can definitely do much better if you command them to follow you and cycle charge, but heavy horsemen suffer in melee with light armored archers is stupid)

GitiUsir said:

I hardly ever played a game with this AI.

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This kind of good AI is really hard to code, especially when it comes to M&B: the computational efficiency matters more than other games.

That is part of the reasons why I am quite frustrated: I don’t know if there’s a way to ideally fix the problem. Hope TW can bring a miracle.

Crowquills said:

Shield wall formation seems to work well when you have other infantry lines to flank the enemy.

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Nah, that’s an illusion: the “tank” infantry line works better if not in shieldwall. In addition to the block attack problem, the change in combat also make them suffer:

1. Now even with shield, block has direction;
2. In shieldwall, units lower their aggressiveness and tend to block instead of attacking;
=>
Result:
When confronted by a blob of aggressive opponents, units in shieldwall always attempt to block but since there are so many attack from different directions (especially when enemies wield short weapons, I.e. imperial archers in melee), they just can’t defend, always stun by little damages and gradually be cut/smashed to death.

(Lately I wasted tons of time closely watching how melee works in custom battle, and finally understood why imperial veteran infantry lose to imperial archers in 400v400)

However, there are mods I found that help improve game experience a lot: (I don’t like the way range units are so OP)

1. custom damage: where you can increase efficiency of armor, so that heavy infantry & Cavalry won’t be a joke any more;

2. Deadly horse charge: 5 times charge damage is just about the sweet point: a decent rear charge of cavalry is decisive.
(Although I wish the author can add the “knock away” feature as in multiplayer)

Koshkasa said:

Creating a problem yourself, then selling a fix for it? You've just invented capitalism.

Back the original topic though, there doesn't seem to be much individual trooper AI to speak of, not yet, anyway. Infantry was way more efficient in Warband, in fact. I guess it has to do with fancy weapon collision physics that make an entire half of soldier trees obsolete at the moment.

Ah, Early Access. I trust TW to fix that, I'm just sad it wasn't something they decided to make functional before going EA.

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Well if they can be incentized to address the problem earlier, I don't mind if a little premium is to be paid.

And certainly the weapon collision physics are cause of the problem: just look at the overhead strike: character put his sword parallel to his back and then swing all the way up and down like 270 degree to complete a devastating swing, how can this not collide with second line troops? There are physics that prevent the attack to be done, but no mechanism to avoid NPC to do such absurd move in tight formation.