Recent content by OliESC

Clan name: Cheshire Cats Clan
Clan tag: CCC
Clan region: international
Clan's TW thread or TW group link: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/ccc-cheshire-cats-clan-international.430211/
Contact's info (links to TW & Steam profiles): https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?members/achaner.120175/ & https://steamcommunity.com/id/necrop3nguin/

The CCC Warband servers are down for a few days but will be back soon.

As you said too it totally depends on the playstyle. The Nomad Bow is faster and the Strong Bow used to be stronger. Now the Strong Bow is only a little bit stronger. When you think it's worth its low speed it's fine. Maybe this fits to your personal play style.  Everybody can check the numbers, do a few tests and decide for themselves. I just said the lower speed and higher price isn't balanced anymore regarding the little difference of damage.
If the player can buy a proper helmet or not defenitely makes a difference regarding getting headshotted. A strong bow archer can also buy normal arrows instead of barbed ones to get a bit better helmet too, but not enough for the best one. But ofc without barbed arrows the difference from Nomad Bow to Strong bow just becomes even smaller.
Vaegirs can also do the Sarranid fighting style. And the new stats also made Vaegir infs to the fastest melee fighters of the game. Vaegir Nomad Bow archers can also just support them. It all depends on the fighting style.

HKP said:

the point is that vaegir archer got nerfed. So if you have less damage in total you can not take a less damage equipment. alot of vaegir strats still bank on the archers hitting shots, so if you're not able to potentially 1 shot an enemy player with a headshot you're throwing.

Normad bow offers you literally nothing. You get to have additional gold to spend on boots, 2 better packs of arrows and a falcion which is all completly useless. You only need 1 pack of good arrows since you can have all archers glitch it for them. You get everyone a scimi if you know how to do drops, and the leg armor is not needed because you're supposed to be the faction with ranged pressure. So the money you 'gain' for taking a free bow is not really effective. If you buy khergit bow with best helmet you can 1 hit people with headshot. It's weaker now than it was before but it's still possible.

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Nomad bow didn't get nerfed! the damage bonus for each bow is limited to Power Draw requirement +4. This means the Nomad Bow is limited to Power Draw 6 anyway. It's the same like before. Khergit Bow got nerfed and set on Nomad Bow level. If you can easily do headshots with a Khergit Bow it should be possible with Nomad Bow too. (48,29 for Khergit compared to 46,32 for Nomad).

HKP said:

With the nerfs normad bow is useless, dunno about khergit - surely worse than before but probably playable.

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Nomad Bow didn't get nerfed at all. Khergit Bow got set on Nomad Bow level. You can find the calculations here

And people who think Nomad Bow is useless should keep in mind Sarranid teams use it too. And their lower Power Draw 5 skill even makes their Nomad Bow a bit less effective than for Vaegirs

Hero_of_Ferelden said:

OliESC said:

Strong Bow isn't thaaat much stronger than Nomad Bow either, including all arrows and stuff Nomad Bow does 46,32 damage and Strong Bow does 52.25 Everybody can decide for themselves, but I'd say that's not worth the price and not worth the lower speed.

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Strong bow is currently the only viable bow for Vaegirs. It often takes 3 body shots to kill enemy inf with the other 2 bows.

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Nomad Bow always was a good Bow too. It totally depends on your personal play style. And it's still good cause it didn't get nerfed. And btw often you rather need 4 shots to kill an enemy.
Now the Strong Bow is still stronger, exactly 12.8% stronger than Nomad Bow, but also 6 points slower and you also can't get a proper helmet anymore. As I wrote everybody can decide for themselves and you did.

Oliveran said:

Calculations

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You compared two different factions (Sarranid Nomad Bow vs Vaegir Strong Bow). Ofc there's still a difference and my calculations showed the same difference too. I just didnt add arrows, proficiencies, strength.. I skipped all the values which are the same for all bows anyway.
I compared the one Vaegir Bow to the other Vaegir Bows and I also compared original Power Draw 7 to new Power Draw 6.
But I can also add arrows, proficiencies and strength and just do the unnecessarily complicated total calculation:


["(Nomad)" means compared to Nomad Bow]


The numbers are different but the results didn't change. My calculations were correct.

• Nomad bow didn't get nerfed. If Power Draw 7 or 6 doesn't make any difference. All the other bows moved closer to the Nomad Bow
• Khergit Bow isn't much stronger than Nomad Bow anymore and there's no reason to use it (48,29 for Khergit compared to 46,32 for Nomad).
• Strong Bow isn't thaaat much stronger than Nomad Bow either, including all arrows and stuff Nomad Bow does 46,32 damage and Strong Bow does 52.25 Everybody can decide for themselves, but I'd say that's not worth the price and not worth the lower speed.
• War Bow just does 56,21, but ofc it's much slower and now additionally gets an accuracy penalty.

I took a look at the stats again. So far I know 'strength' and 'agility' attributes count too.
However, I'd say in a way most problems like javs for Nord infs or Swadian awlpikes dropped for cav don't even belong to the original balancing. The original balancing was rather focused on balanced battle servers and drops in matches weren't considered.
There was a patch in 2013. Archer athletics got reduced to make them weaker in melee. Luckily the impact on their melee was rather small. But it slowed down the archer 'sidestep', reduced the archer gameplay and slowed down the whole team too. Sarranids used to have one more athletics for their more flexible fighting style and got nerfed more than others.
Swadia was considered to be the 'weakest faction'. So the prices of Swadian armour got reduced to make them stronger. Rhodoks were even weaker and didn't get anything. This certainly didn't improve the balance of the factions. It also would be interesting to know if the low armour prices had some additional impact on the availability of awlpikes too.

Bow factions rather use light armour and this also applies to their shields and shield skill. Their shields are still good enough to protect some feet/head but certainly aren't the best to charge a flag position. They have different advantages, should rather avoid risky charges and use a more flexible tactic. The match format might not always allow it but that's not the fault of any stats.
When Vaegirs get the shield skill of a crossbow faction their shield becomes bigger, but also stronger and faster too. In case of Rhodok and Swadia their higher shield skill gets compensated by slow Rhodok equipment and lower Swadian 1h proficiencies. But the Vaegir scimitar doesn't get compensated by anything and the combination would just make them even faster. The Vaegir Power Draw skill also cannot get lowered since it would unbalance all their bows. And Vaegir dragoons gets improved too. Well, Vaegirs already belong to the strongest factions and don't need to get improved that much.
Naturally, Nords are very effective in such positioned flag fights and charges and appear overly strong. When their infantry strength gets reduced it might feel more equal regarding flag fights. But actually their strong inf just compensates the weakness of their cav and archers. When their power throw gets decreased they can't throw javs that effectively anymore. But this would decrease their axe throwing skill too. The problem doesn't get fixed.
Another significant change is to make archers and crossbowmen stronger by giving them more power strike. Well, I agree to give them more athletics, but making them stronger actually means to reverse the patch by changing other stats to the opposite direction. It would be good to get back the original sidestep but archers don't need to be stronger.
The factions have very different individual advantages and disadvantages. Current matches favour offensive and aggressive tactics. Not all factions have the same aggressive skills and equipment. It's not possible to make all of them equally effective for those typical match situations. The one faction relies on light armour, arrows and crossfires while the other faction depends on heavy armour, crossbows or axes and inf charges. These fundamental differences belong to the balancing and don't need a fix.
Also regarding testing it in matches. I'd be very careful about that. Matches don't always cover all aspects of Warband. Little differences like a few more seconds, different flag spawn time, maybe a certain map or different team sizes and a certain faction advantage or disadvantage might have a totally different effect. And the factions are affected in different ways. The same strong infs might suddenly get couched by cav or run into crossfires, or in case it becomes more/less difficult to set up crossfires it ofc has more impact on bow factions than on a faction which rather depends on quick charges anyway. 

I think too many of the new stat changes rather lead away from the original balancing. I agree Nord javs, awlpikes and archer athletics are a problem. And personally I think actually it would make sense to follow the original balancing and to get it fixed. In case of athletics it's even possible but to fix javs and awlpikes too a mod is needed. Without mod there's no way to fix it properly. I think a player mod wouldn't be a problem. But maybe it's better just to keep the stats as they are, not to risk further inbalances and to keep the stats close to Native and to other servers.

Roster limits won't automatically lead to more teams. The lower the limit is the more players the clans have to send into inactivity. In recent tournaments the free agent lists often were very long and only very few new teams founded and most of them only existed for a short time. It's alright to have some temporary teams too. But what we need are stable clans, clans that stand the test of time and are worth to get remembered and which players like to join. To guarantee to keep it up and to stay 'stable' a clan needs a certain number of members. For many clans it's a special moment when they finally can do a inner clan 8v8 training match. And then almost half of them aren't allowed to join the next tournament.
I'd like to avoid a situation in which 10 of our members are online but only 5 of them are on the roster. Not all of our members are young students anymore, some of our members even have very busy lives and can't guarantee to join all matches. We're a social group, friends, and our members certainly won't leave their clan just to join some other team. But this might be different in case of other clans. Usually once a social group is divided it's very difficult to fix it again and it can easily blow up a whole clan. And the community doesn't gain anything by disbanded clans and divided friendships.
We should build up the community instead of cutting it down. We need to support clans and friend groups instead of dividing them. We need more slots for players instead of limiting them. Clans need to get encouraged to recruit new members. And loyal members of long living clans usually don't stop playing Warband.

I'd be very careful regarding stat changes. Ofc there are problems and some changes could make sense. For example I can imagine the Nord infs originally got their throwing skill for their axes and actually weren't supposed to use javs. But all in all the original stats aren't too bad and work pretty well. Other things have higher impact than stats:
Like the current match format.. The shorter round time and forced flag spawn reduced the variety of battle situations and reduced maps to basically 3 flag regions where most fights now take place. These tactical TDM flag fights favour certain skills, stats, play styles and tactics. Most flag positions are flat and they're all in the open. Therefore cav got bigger impact, archers already know their crossfire positions, and the expensive Rhodok spear gets less priority, more closed maps get played which favours Nord inf... and so on.
Equipment has more impact than any stats and new stats won't change any equipment based problems. When the competitive scene uses their own stats they just seperate themselves even more. Stats should always be global and be balanced for all situations which happen on all servers. I think there's a tendency to make the factions more and more equal and to adjust the stats to the flag fights which in my opinion won't make the game more exciting.


...but since I expect some changes will come anyway I took a look at the archer stats:

The Power Draw 7 calculation looks pretty balanced to me. If speedy Nomad Bow or powerful Strong Bow, bonuses and differences make sense.
The Power Draw 6 calculation looks a bit as if the bonus limit got overlooked. The Power Draw bonus (+14% damage) is limited to 4. So with Power Draw 6 only Khergit, Strong and War Bow get nerfed while the Nomad Bow still gets full damage support.
The Khergit Bow only gets 1.84 more damage than Nomad Bow. So there's no reason to use it especially since it's significantly slower too.
Even a Strong Bow is only 5.52 points stronger than a Nomad Bow, but also much slower.
To get completely rid of the accuracy penalty an archer needs 3 more Power Draw than required by the bow. But with Power Draw 6 the Vaegir War Bow is only 2 above bow requirement and gets an accuracy penalty and ofc additionally it's much slower and actually not that much stronger than a Strong Bow. The Vaegir War Bow might not be the most competitive bow anyway, even less since the round time got so short. But on an open map.. well, it should stay an option.

Power Draw 6 might appear as if it fixed the difference of a Sarranid Power Draw 5 Nomad Bow archer to a Vaegir Power Draw 7 Strong Bow archer. But from what I can see it creates inbalance.
Vaegir archers just have more bow power than others and maybe this just gets balanced by their weaker archer melee stats (compared to stronger Sarranid archer melee stats) and by Vaegir infs who have to fear Sarranid foot shots a bit more. With +2 shield skill Vaegir inf gets rid of this weakness too. Actually they just should take cover more often and shouldn't present themselves in the open too much. But maybe that's not possible since they all have to join the flag fight.




Edit: I had to correct the bow requirement values. It seems Strong Bow requires 3 and War Bow only 4 (I thought it was 4 and 5). It's fixed now^^
Well, actually it doesn't make much difference. The damage values are still the same. But the accuracy penalty for the War Bow only appears when it's Power Draw 6. There's no accuracy penalty when it's Power Draw 7.

8v8 is more complex than 6v6. When matches are smaller less 'team-skill' is needed and the game becomes simpler, regarding tactics, commanding, maps and so on.
Shorter round time and forced flag spawns already reduced the complexity of matches in the past and now with 6v6 this development just continues. Well, ofc some aspects always make sense but all in all it's just not a positive development. The smaller it becomes the smaller it will be and such things always have a big impact on clans and on the community as a whole. So in my opinion there's the additional question which match format will encourage the clans to build sth up instead of cutting it down.
In our clan most people aren't overly amazed about joining small matches and sometimes it was easier to get 8 than to persuade 5 or 6. Meanwhile small matches happen more often since many clans/teams just don't get enough players for a full match anymore. We always try 8v8 first but in case any team doesn't get enough players it's still better to play a quick 6v6 or even 5v5 than playing no match at all. But the match format which is the more challenging, more complex, more serious and also the more competitive one is 8v8, at least regarding team play.

a new server:
CCC_ArenaBattle

CCC_Madparty and CCC_OpenTourney got new map rotations and many more maps

CCC_FI_Osiris
our Full Invasion server got updated with the new version Osiris

Chat Commands on all native servers

WarhammerR said:

Waiting for in-depth analysis of OGL career.

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I can provide some data.
OGL joined first Wolfpack_Siege on 09_13_12, 17:37:05

but I found the key moment of his career in server_log_12_18_12.txt
that's how it all began

Shemaforash said:

BCM is not community hosted like WSC and the evidence provided for the three banned players is most likely from WBMM anti-cheat.

I don't claim to understand how the BCM admin team thinks, it's not as involved in the scene as the WSC admins.
A condition for the "suspicious players" in WSC was to provide some sort of evidence (recordings, MOSS), he has provided a recording for every match.

One of the admins in WSC was part of the initial investigation in mercenaries that got him banned. Which is probably why he's on that list. So it seems they have given him and other accused players a chance to redeem themselves.

In my eyes Anubis is far less suspicious of a player now that he's willing to provide a POV recording of matches.
Even though I say this I still think the evidence provided in mercenaries is suspicious.

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Well, Gibby was admin of the BCM, Tardet too. SirAlecks and Charlini were referees who are both admins on WSC. So I'd say BCM and WSC seem to be not that much seperated  
SirAlecks is even the guy who had provided the 'evidence' which got Anubis banned but apparently didn't provide the same evidence for BCM too.

Don't get me wrong I agree that it might have looked suspicious and deciding to have one use MOSS in case of a suspicion is up to the admin team running a tournament. But it doesn't prove beyond any doubt that he is in fact a cheater.
Now Anubis is recording all matches and suddenly he's less suspicious and it rather looks like he never cheated. His actual performance didn't drop and the same weird shots can be found in his recordings.

Watly said:

When the case involving Anubis was brought up, I did not get the idea that it was Kern's initiative. I also don't share the idea that the evidence was insufficient; it was as clear-cut as possible without the use of spyware.

I'm not saying that being tournament admin and banning cheaters when cheating yourself isn't hypocritical, but to claim he needs to apologize for banning another cheater from his own tournament is beyond absurd.

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Just hypothetical, let's assume that the evidence was sufficient and Anubis was a proven cheater. Then I don't understand why kern, nessa and odin did not get the same chance to use MOSS or just to record and to continue in the WSC.

I guess I already know the answer: Cause kern, nessa and odin are cheaters beyond any doubt while Anubis was only suspected. It wouldn't make sense to let a proven cheater play in any tournament.
And this is the reason why I think that someone who clearly is a proven cheater and put a lot of effort into damaging the reputation of a just suspected one should apologize for this action.