How about if you lost 33 men of 580 and the enemy lost 8 of 260 in the first 90 seconds of the fight? I mean its logical that the killing for the attacking side starts when you are on the wall and not when you are pushing your siege engines to the wall. Please refrain from further unhelpful comments. If you would have taken the time to read the original summary, you would have seen that it is not about the retreating but that the new troops do not operate the siege engines. Please read and think before you write.