Posted my thoughts about this in another thread on the issue: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,375104.msg8939251.html#msg8939251
Gelden said:
As many have eluded to here, and something I want to bring to the discussion: there has been a feeling of disconnect between the competitive Mount and Blade community and the developers of their beloved game. One of two things seem to be at play here. Either TaleWorlds are completely ignorant of the native competitive community, or they have little ambitions to foster and grow it - if this is the case I'd love to know the 'why?'. Is it a case of numbers and potential? (I.e. "not enough people play it therefore we should focus on more lucrative endeavors"). I understand not everybody may get what they want out of Bannerlord, but this is large community who have accumulated knowledge over 8 years that I think should be taken into consideration for the future of multiplayer in this franchise.
Well, the latest blog seems like they are trying to do something for the multiplayer domain, but it falls far short of its potential, and seems to have ignored the foundation that the competitive Warband community has built over the last 8 years. The reason you are seeing so many competitive players coming out of the woodwork with skeptical expressions is because each serious player has an idea of what the multiplayer game could be, and the community's collective dream has taken a swift kick to the scrotum with this latest blog. Not only that, but they (TWs) have done the equivalent of my blind grandma trying to throw a bulls-eye in darts - they seem to have completely missed the mark. My only hope is that the blog is not indicative to what we'll see come release day.
I sincerely hope this new game mode, which now seems to be what TaleWorlds is promoting (in place of battle) lives up to the hype you are trying to create. My advice, and the advice of the majority of the people who have successfully played your game competitively for years, is to keep battle mode. We know its strengths, and we know what needs to be done from a developers stand-point to fix the weaknesses. It would be foolish to release the multiplayer game without officially supporting the battle game mode. Release it (with the fixes that the competitive community have smoothed out over years) beside your new skirmisher game mode and let the community decide what the best game mode is.
I think for the conversation to progress further, we need to be civil. I'd like to hear the input of others from the competitive warband community and why we should try to save battle mode (if even possible). It might be useful to put together a list of strengths to try to convince TaleWorlds a mistake is being made.
Orion said:
The proof is in the pudding, really. We've been tinkering with Battle for years because at its core it's an excellent game mode. Every change made to it has had the effect of paring it down to its essence, which is the fight. What we want most of all is that.
I think this is the best argument I've seen so far for why battle needs to be kept. The competitive community has tried different game modes, but always flooded back to simple battle,
for good reasons. Other, objective based game modes take away the focus from being on the 7 or 8 opposing players in front of you, to external factors (in Bannerlord's supposed case, multiple flags and morale). Competitive players are only interested in matching up their own group of 7-8 fighters against the skill of another 7-8 fighters, with external factors playing the smallest role possible.
To make an honest argument, however, we need to point out the flaws in battle. By no means do the flaws make it unplayable, and certainly they do not suggest that the game mode should ever be destroyed (alas, I'm still baffled as to why I have to be here making these arguments). Off the top of my head, I can think of the following issues that the community struggled with. The gold balance is big because we can't mod it out; other issues could be changed via mods, but the need for a revamped, updated and balanced battle
was in the minds of every serious competitive player in the community, and most expected it with Bannerlord.
- Gold balance among items over different factions
- Waiting for flag can be considered a downside, which a shorter timer helps with
- Unviability of Khergits
There's probably more, but the positives outweigh the negatives:
- Single elimination
- Choosing your own gear (this is actually balanced because everybody is given the same amount of gold, the only thing to do from a developers standpoint is to make similar armour/weapon stats across factions for gear i.e. a heavy Vaegir chest piece has similar stats to a nord like-item, both available for similar amounts of $)
- Limiting external factors, maximizing the chances that a win is based on player/team skill using the combat system
I will make a quick note about gear customization and its importance before I end this. Allowing players to choose their gear can be balanced as well as allow for greater tactical potential. To give an example, there are times as a cavalry player that I may want to switch to a faster horse (courser) to be able to outrun the enemy cavalry. I take a risk in doing this, as it makes me more squishy, however, having it so the other cav can't catch me, I have opened up new possibilities for myself. There are many other examples of this, such as choosing an axe over a sword in order to break shields. Choosing a spear to shield-stun opponents. Choosing a lesser shield in favour of a better weapon. The only downside to all this, if you want to call it one, is that teams are gear swapping at the beginning of rounds.
I suggest TaleWorlds releases the new game mode under scrutiny into a testing stage at some point, before it is released officially, and that battle be released beside it.
