Recent content by echoco

  1. Why 1.5.10 is the absolute worst version

    Here's a recent break down of why the old leveling system felt unfair to players. I cover other issues besides just the level up penalty, but it shows the overall of why that part is unneeded and frustrating IMO.
    I just want to make sure anyone reading this knows this is only about the OLD version, not about 1.5.10 beta
    *
    What I don't like also is the needles layers of non-beneficial complexity in the leveling system. Let me start with what's good and then show the layers where it goes wrongs.

    1: You use a skill in game and it raises, giving an advantage and lettings you choose perks and it takes much longer to raise higher as it levels.
    ^THIS is a complete char-dev system. This alone is enough. Your choices and time in game = your character's advantage. If you wanna bust your bunz trying to max out many things before you character dies, that's your business in a single player game. Really, this is all they need.


    2: You must spec into skill via FP and attributes to learn them. More = faster learning
    Okay sounds fair.....

    3: You must use 5fp and +8 (10)attributes to reach the highest skill caps
    WHAT? Now there's skill caps? Why not just faster and slower learning, why have hard caps?

    4: You gain +1 attribute every 4th level
    That's gonna take a lot levels to max out the things I want! But I guess it's a looooooong game.....

    5: Every level up of character reduces you learning speed for all skills.
    What? Why? Why am I punished for leveling up? I guess it's to encourage min/maxing and only raising the skill I really want

    6: Exp to level up is the same even if you don't invests into skill, you level up just as fast from their actions, no min/max allowed
    Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaw ****, this is the most trolly obnoxious char dev system I've ever seen!
    *
    Here's a link to that topic with many other options about it.
    https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...stem-still-unenjoyable-and-unbalanced.438163/

    Basically, for most players they will have to defeat many many enemies with thier character and thus gain lots of level up raw exp, even if they don't invest FP and attribute into combat skills or have reached the limits of those skill. This means the "level up= learning down" would prevent them from learning the skills they had invested points into, simply because they "played the game" and were active in combat.

    Further more, you have said twice that you think a character will reach higher levels or obtain more attributes/fp because of the removal of the leveling punishment, this is just not true because the removal of "skill exp penalties based on character level" in no way effect the gaining of raw exp used for gaining main levels (which give fp and attributes).

    I'm sorry if I was being too mean in my earlier post. If you have a specific question feel free to ask.
    OK, I get it now. Skills exp are modified from total exp gained. Thanks for the explaination. Although I still think the removal of the restriction diminish the value of companions and hurt the dynasty building part of the game, but I'll leave it at that.
  2. Why 1.5.10 is the absolute worst version

    @echoco, you are entitled to your own opinion like everyone else, but I am just going to say that your opinion is based on misunderstood facts.
    Can you explain why? I'm curious, and maybe it's the way Ananda went about it that didn't enlighten me.
  3. Why 1.5.10 is the absolute worst version

    Not part of the game
    Well, children were supposed to have skills based on the parents.
    How? How will I get more?

    I should have just ignored your 1st post and let you have your opinion based on misunderstanding everything about skills and leveling. I'm not trying be mean but you realty just don't know anything about it.
    So you level up 10 times, but you don't earn exp any slower. Wouldn't that mean you'll be getting the next 10 levels faster than in 1.4.9? And by the time your character dies he'll be higher level than in 1.4.9, the extra levels would give you attributes and focus wouldn't it? Or you don't think with the new system your character will be able to reach higher level?
    I would be to have it at 275-333, the range I consider "good".
    You consider top of the game level "good", I consider that super good.
  4. Why 1.5.10 is the absolute worst version

    Oh so you play the game in the basic obvious way and call that making specialized companions. Do you think if you didn't assign them roles you would have leveled all those skills up to a useful levels? Do you think now you would without the level up penalty? If you only do combat skills on your character so you're not concerned about level bloat from combat... okay so what? Do you think now you don't need companions because you character can learn everything? I don't understand what you initial post is trying to say:

    ^How do I become super good at everything now? I don't get any extra FP or attributes, how do I do it?
    What I'm trying to say is, my understanding of the learning rate limitation as the level rises (recently removed) was to force the character to develop slower. So that the character would be older before reach the max of their potential and even risk dying before that max is reached. To get better charactrs you then need to have children whose skills are based on yours and then you build up on that to get even better, at least that what I got from one of the dev blogs.

    Removing the learning limitation the levels had means you'll reach your potential earlier in life. You'll also likely get more attribute and focus points by the time your character dies, meaning you can put those into more skills.
    "aaaw man I shot too many guys and leveled up 10 times, now I can't learn scouting as fast :sad: " now it's "I shot a bunch of guys and leveled up 10 times, cool"
    Those 10 levels will give you at least 2 attributes and 10 more focus points.

    "Hire a crappy wanderer with 80-140 skill in something and it barely improves for the rest of the game"
    That's the thing, you consider 80-140 skills as crappy when 100 in any weapon skill is a competitive level where you no longer struggle to do something. With 100 in weapons you're able to hold your own again high tier troops.

    "Do you think now you don't need companions because you character can learn everything?"
    That's what you do, "They all sit in taverns getting relations for me. I've never seen a wanderer with relevant skill more then 140, which is garbage." not me. And you'll be able to do things even better because you can optimize your attributes to fit your play style where as the companion will be the same, improving a little faster. So you still wouldn't need your companions because their skills are crappy and go about the world by yourself.

    "Oh so you play the game in the basic obvious way and call that making specialized companions. Do you think if you didn't assign them roles you would have leveled all those skills up to a useful levels?"
    And that's why I didn't spell it out for you at first, I figured you can work it out yourself that a character that is good at one thing is specialized. I assign them roles specifically to train them to a useful level, 1.5.10 just means they'll spend less time in those roles.

    I'm 2 years in and I barely got 70 athletics by having only 2 endurance and 4 focus points and playing normally, trying to make a balanced character. If you grind, you will eventually get there, but it's still quite a long grind, and it was so much worse with that reduced learning rate. Now it's just more predictable how your skills will level-up: you know that if you put 1 focus point in you will have a certain learning rate that won't get reduced just because you leveled up, which is great. Before this reduced learning rate made me very frustrated that the grind in the late game became more and more unbearable, halting progression. At least now I know what to expect.
    With 2 attributes and 4 focus, you're not exactly the posterboy for that skill. Your example is of a secondary skill, your primary skills where you have 4 or more attributes progress pretty well right? And now these secondary skills progressed at a quicker rate, doesn't that prove that you can become good at multiple things now? It's a grind if your aim is to get secondary skills over 100, needing to wait for more levels for more attribute points. I agree it's more predictable with 1.5.10 and that takes away from not knowing if you're character is going to croke it before it reach max potential, and less agency to have kids or really focus on doing just one thing well. I still think that tennis and badminton is valid comparison, one focus on power and the other on fine control.
  5. Why 1.5.10 is the absolute worst version

    Did you know you CANNOT do that in Bannerlord because all actions give you exp toward leveling up regardless of how you spent you points? Yes eve red hard capped skill. Your whole idea of how you build up your characters was just a day dream from not understanding the actual mechanics.
    "Your companions suffer from that same limits and they often start at a higher level, making it even slower for them raise thier special skill (if they even can). Tell me how did you "create" a specialized a companion?"
    Focus on one skill at the expense of everything else.

    I specilize my companions using that method. I assign them as quartermaster or other roles as needed. And made sure they gain skills in the field I want the quickest. I can usually get two of their skills (primary and secondary) up that way at the cost of everything else. They might gain some skills in other things but nothing significant.

    For my character I also focus on a few skills. I don't gain scouting skill because the scout would take all those points, Surgeon takes all the medical etc. Don't want to gain skills in trade don't trade. You only gain skills for doing those activities, you know that right?
  6. Why 1.5.10 is the absolute worst version

    1 You won't be super good at more then 1 attribute set, no matter what. It's hard capped by your attributes.
    2 Your companions suffer from that same limits and they often start at a higher level, making it even slower for them raise thier special skill (if they even can). Tell me how did you "create" a specialized a companion? Or do you mean "Hire a crappy wanderer with 80-140 skill in something and it barely improves for the rest of the game".
    3 You can't be a governor anyways
    The only good one is your campaign brother, because you can customize him during the tutorial.


    Nope. My character is nearly the same as older versions but now I don't experience "aaaw man I shot too many guys and leveled up 10 times, now I can't learn scouting as fast :sad: " now it's "I shot a bunch of guys and leveled up 10 times, cool".
    I think you don't understand what hard caps are if you think anyone's going to be high level in everything.
    Yeah, this doesn't make sense. If you live a long life, wouldn't it make sense that you can be skilled in multiple departments? You can still have a profession, as your attributes limit your max, but why would I learn one-handed weapons slower when super efficient with two-handed? Wouldn't this learning carry throughout my life, making it easier if anything? It is a great change.
    "how did you "create" a specialized a companion"
    Focus on one skill at the expense of everything else.

    Like how a person start running, they'll make quick progress when they begin but after a while they'll platau out until they really focus on running at the expense of everything else. Or if you learn martial arts you'll learn all the basic very easily and then takes years to slowly master the art. They don't improve constantly, they all reach a period of stagnation at one point where they progress slowly. The older you get the slower you learn.

    One handed vs two handed, look at body builders and strong men, one has a lot of muscle and they're strong, the other are big, not very well defined muscles but are stronger. Being good at a marathon doesn't make you the fastest 100m sprinter, different muscle groups. Muscle memory is a thing. Under your logic we would all expect a tennis champions to be equally good at badminton? Most people I know are good at a few things and not so good at everything else. People who are jack of all trades can't compete with people who focused on a single thing. A lot of NFL athletes play multiple sports but only a few might be able compete in other things at a professional level.
  7. Anyone else feels like the progress of the game has stalled?

    honestly,

    because they have no design document, making one would probably entail what happened around 2016 when they scrapped a bunch of stuff and needed to 'restart'.

    They need a design document that doesn't make them do that!
    I think any design doc they make will force some codes to be scrapped to unify features, otherwise it;ll remain a jumbled mess of unrelated mechanics.
  8. Definitive post about development of Bannerlord

    The sooner people understand that the game is essentially finished, the better it is for their mental health.
    I can't afgue with this.
    I didn't ask for it either (EA) but I understand the people who asked for it.

    EA does not justify everything, but it explain other many things, what is not justifiable (for me) is to limit yourself to bombarding the forum with everything you do not like about the game without taking into account the many good things that Bannerlord already has, I do not know , I think the healthiest thing to do is wait patiently and give a video game the importance it deserves, everything else seems to me to be whimsical comments from rude people who have never tried to make a game themselves.
    I didn't ask for EA either. The thing I hate more than getting poorly developed product is seeing aimless development with no end in sight.
  9. Why 1.5.10 is the absolute worst version

    Nah man, the removal of the learning speed reduction from leveling up is really important, that alone makes it a better version.
    The routing thing is a minor annoyance. In fact everything about enemies routing is annoying, I wish they would just duck and cover as if they surrendered, or at least de=spawn when they get off the map.
    I think removing the learning speed restriction really destroyed the base mechanics in bannerlord, one of the few new features in Bannerlord. My understanding of the mechnics was to limit your character growth so it can't become super good at everything and create a need to specialize and deligate other task, surgeon, quatermaster, engineer, scout, govenor to other characters that you specilize in those areas.

    My hypothesis is you'll playthrough be even more repetitive since eventually you'll be high level in everything anyway.
  10. Anyone else feels like the progress of the game has stalled?

    For people who missed it, it was here, in the second paragraph.
    Confirmed a lot of my suspicions. I wanted to say a long time ago how they probably didn't have any design docs, based on the way the game plays and how each features were so unintegrated but gave them the benefit of the doubt because I didn't have evidence other than the game.

    It's sad. With this confirmatoin my hope for the game finally died. I was going to joke, it looks like they're spending time chery picking community suggestions and implementing them and call it development, it seems so true now. All they could do now is performance improvements, fix and balances, minor isolated features. Major gameplay mechanics, needed to be designed into the basic gamplay and would have been there at the start of EA if it was going to be tehre at all.

    And it explains why they are bad at time estimates, if there isn't a plan then you don't have anything to go on to estimate. Another Star Citizen, sadly.

    All hail the modding community.
  11. Mods that allow changing weapon tags?

    Is there another mod that lets you change the tags on items like "tattered" and "rusty" etc? Saddled Edge Editor used to do that but the latest version don't affect tags in 1.5.9.
  12. Reusing "lost" noble children of extinct clans as companions when they turn 18-30.

    Sometimes though, I'd like to imagine someone resigned to service or whatever and just accepted they're becoming of a commoner, but OK I guess either a modder may add that in or base game - so as long as those "lost" children don't just... Die. Even though they could literally fend for themselves by 12 at least.
    Yeah, that would work too. I wonder if its possible to change the class of characters though. The kids would be noble at first but then will need a conversaton dialogue added to them after the clan died. There's a lot of possibilities with those children, they could form minor factions/mercenaries when they come of age.
  13. Reusing "lost" noble children of extinct clans as companions when they turn 18-30.

    Could be a quest and they would hang with you until you retake their birthright. They'll leave and hold grudge if you don't give it to them. They'll nag you each yesr to take their fief and you get -1 relation every year. In return they could have more sway in dealing with other nobels along with the spiffy govenor skills.
  14. suggestion : clans in debt

    That's a good idea. I wonder if it'll survive player exploit. Its already easy for player to recruit and train troops without being to buy them off impoverished lords.

    The question is will TW implement inter-AI relations to do this and politics.
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