You mean like this?
Not exactly batting a thousand here, chief.
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Armor lack of effectiveness Devs should consider
- Thread starter Halvdan
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Not exactly batting a thousand here, chief.
I'm pretty sure I've said my fair share of opinions on the topic (in this same thread), I have a different take/approach than @five bucks on the solution; more akin to @Orion take on dealing with archers.
Same conclusion ultimately, we're just waiting on TW to do any actionable thing in this regards (insert 'c'mon do something' meme)
for example, yes. but im only a single person and my time is limited, so i cannot react to everything. or read everything for that matter. but i do my best with my limited ressouces
now you force me to read also your AND orions opinons on that matter? yikes. thanks. that will take some time i guess
but yes, waiting on TW actions is everything we can ultimately do. and that will take some time i assume as balancing troops doesn´t seem to be their number one issue for now
Inappropriate behavior
so now YOU want to tell me if im allowed to post anything on this forum? alright
I'm still waiting for someone to actually make the point that archers "need" to be nerfed. It's all f*cking opinion.
I didn't say that, but at this point I'm tired of your constant baiting and combativeness. Sit in timeout.
five bucks
Knight at Arms
Thank you to Orion for pointing it out, but yeah, I have already answered both your concerns in the post you replied to.
"I really don't want spears to be even weaker" - I answered this already by saying "boost the base damage of spears so that they do more damage than before".
"Otherwise it would be hard to kill even one as shields don't break from arrows" - I answered this already by saying "reduce the HP of shields by 15%".
MariusTitus
Regular
Bows are insanely strong compared to WB, that's for sure. Everything went 2x from WB, average HP went from 50 to 100, sword's cutting damage from 30 to 60, two handed swords from 40 to 80, and bows.. war bow's 25 to noble longbow's 100 (ohkay, maybe noble gear isn't best example, woodland longbow 75 then), hunting bow's 15 to this here's bow 48 or something. With a bit of dmg boost from skill you can basically 1shot with noble longbow and 2shot with weakest bow in the game on bodyshots. Add superior accuracy on all bows because skill level doesn't matter here at slightest, and voila, explanation why Fians are so OP.
MariusTitus
Regular
As is yours, a "f*cking opinion" that archers are completely fine as they are right now.
five bucks is right on loads of points. A combo of armor not working so well + overpowered bows + AI's stupidity = super fast battles, trash infantry, too much damage. Aka stuff that most people point to on these forums as problems, and that's a valid point my man.
MariusTitus
Regular
Since I'm here I could point out couple more things that are wrong with Butterlord, not just general balance.
Major problem:
Skills do not seem to pertain to NPC's at all. There is 0 difference between recruits and t5 soldiers in their swing speed, ability to block or damage, only difference is their gear. Recruit barely holding his sword can beat the sh*t out of grizzled veteran if he gets first swing right. I have my doubts if their skill level even works for them, but if it does, there has to be changes. There should be not a bonus, but a malus before you reach certain lvl in melee skill, let's say 75, if 75 is t3, average soldier. There has to be a penalty in swing speed and damage, otherwise there's 0 difference in soldier skill. On that account, they have to take lot longer to train. Right now getting Fian champs is a matter of 4-5 bandit groups? Way too fast. Remember WB? It took some time to get professionals, more battles, but when they were there, you felt it. And it oughta be the same here.
Major problem:
Bow accuracy pertains more to their inherent stats and less to archer's skill. Continuing from above, if you'd give a noble longbow to t1 archer (if there would be one), he'd shoot it as accurate as someone with 200 skill in bows with barely any difference. Bows should be less accurate until you reach a certain level (75 I guess). Same goes for player. Never held a bow in your entire life? You'll be sure to notice.
Minor problem:
Horses. They can VROOOOOM over any steep terrain without slowing down at all. Like, just now I rode a horse over 80% incline and flew out on opposite side (it was a tiny hill) full speed, no slow down. This basically negates any form of terrain's tactical use (except for putting your bowmen there).
Major problem:
Skills do not seem to pertain to NPC's at all. There is 0 difference between recruits and t5 soldiers in their swing speed, ability to block or damage, only difference is their gear. Recruit barely holding his sword can beat the sh*t out of grizzled veteran if he gets first swing right. I have my doubts if their skill level even works for them, but if it does, there has to be changes. There should be not a bonus, but a malus before you reach certain lvl in melee skill, let's say 75, if 75 is t3, average soldier. There has to be a penalty in swing speed and damage, otherwise there's 0 difference in soldier skill. On that account, they have to take lot longer to train. Right now getting Fian champs is a matter of 4-5 bandit groups? Way too fast. Remember WB? It took some time to get professionals, more battles, but when they were there, you felt it. And it oughta be the same here.
Major problem:
Bow accuracy pertains more to their inherent stats and less to archer's skill. Continuing from above, if you'd give a noble longbow to t1 archer (if there would be one), he'd shoot it as accurate as someone with 200 skill in bows with barely any difference. Bows should be less accurate until you reach a certain level (75 I guess). Same goes for player. Never held a bow in your entire life? You'll be sure to notice.
Minor problem:
Horses. They can VROOOOOM over any steep terrain without slowing down at all. Like, just now I rode a horse over 80% incline and flew out on opposite side (it was a tiny hill) full speed, no slow down. This basically negates any form of terrain's tactical use (except for putting your bowmen there).
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HalfMetalJacket
Knight
Just get a mod. Nothing I can see TW doing at all to change things.
MariusTitus
Regular
Sadly there are none that fit the bill right. And sadly, you're right. I feel the same man. "Warbandlord" came close to what we ask for, but it's still not right. People basically ask for Warband's balance in Bannerlord. I say the game is unbalanced, should have been balanced right through beta but it wasn't and we have "full release" beta with some guys that defend it with "realism" explanation who just mistaken woefully unbalanced game for realistic approach and grown acustomed to it. Like, is the jedi stuff of deflecting arrows with 2handed sword real? Or ladies with no combat skills at all leading parties just so there are more fielded soldiers, in middle ages where ladies surely didn't do that on daily basis? Lacking health issues from constant injuries player receives? Or the fact that I just took down a banner knight in his heavy armor with 2 shots from mid-tier steppe war bow? All of that is realistic about as my chances of finding a decent girlfriend. And judging by Taleworms policy of "don't say sh*t, release tiny patch fixing great game" it's not gonna happen.
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I think there was plenty of reasons various people made why archers 'need' to be nerfed - you're just choosing to not read those sections.
It is all subjective, only objectivity is whatever TW puts into the game as 'official'. But they've practically left these forums so we don't know if they are either satisfied with the current calculations or not; nor do we have any recent patches/updates to prove otherwise too.
is there a proof of what you are saying or does it just feels like that to you?
theoretically, bow accuracy/speed/holding time is depending on skill level next to the equipment. same with swords.
according to my tournaments experience, it's quite a difference if you are fighting against a peasent or a well trained lord. the difference between regular units themself is more marginal as they don't really have a huge skillgap (~100 points) and yes, that is anoying. but there is also a difference in speed, even tho it's less visible. in fact, low tier units seem faster because of less heavy gear. because of that they are faster, even if the skill +% speed isnt there.
for battles i can agree that a t3 sturgian soldier can best a lot of higher tier infantry simply because of that. it's strange but there is indeed a big difference. afaik a t1 unit in t5 gear is slower, because then the skill gap would be visible.
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Plenty of words, sure. Not actual problems with archers, just whining about how they'd like it to be.
If you don't like how archers are, put out a mod where they ARE how you like them, so we can compare. If you can't do that? Why should anyone care about your perspective?
Don't say "TaleWorlds has to do X" when there's no evidence that it's actually a problem. "Should" is not a problem, it's a preference. Show me an actual problem.
Armor works better than it ever did in EA. If you find bows overpowered, mod them, play test, and get back to us. If it's good, people will use the mod. "Trash infantry" is just a garbage opinion, you don't understand how to play the game if you think this is a real point lmao.
I won't defend the AI in general, I definitely have some issues with that.
You're just being obtuse. If you view it that way, then there is absolutely nothing wrong with the current game across any of their half-baked features and no thing anyone here says that matters for TW (which is how they are probably treating it - and why it's in the current state). No problem whatsoever - since it's all 'subjective' if the points made here and various threads are just 'whining'.
If the only problem you can figure out is just the objective 'crash' problems - then the game is 100% complete for you.
Workshop income/economy not a problem. Smithing not a problem. Battle AI/formations tactics not a problem. FOW not a problem. Diplomacy aspects not a problem. Influence not a problem. Lack of scenes not a problem. Clone babies not a problem. OOB not a problem. Undying clans not a problem. Weapon/armor stats not a problem. None of those are problems then - since it's all subjective 'shoulds' that one could mod-away.
MariusTitus
Regular
It feels like that. Aye, theoretically, but try that yourself as archer, how different bows are with their accuracy on just mere 50 skill, everything above mountain/steppe/hunting bow is super accurate. Yea, if you play on "realistic" difficulty then lords indeed can give a whipping in tournaments. But that happens in arena only. Out there on the battlefield, I have yet to see a t5 soldier besting recruit because he defends himself so well like lords do in arena (and have yet to see a lord performing as well). The difference has to be felt. I'm not saying a t5 should become unstoppable terminator that can only be defeated by another t5, but you oughta see it on the battlefield that these guys, that you trained so hard and pay so hard perform adequately. Low tier units should be usable because of their speed, true that, and mob higher quality soldiers, but 1v1, t5 has to wreck. One thing I noticed here, soldiers pretty much never block, not with shields, not with weapons. I'm not saying AI vs AI was the smartest in WB, but you did see occasional block here and there..
MariusTitus
Regular
Ah, I see there's no reason for a discussion with you if you **** off everyone with them having "garbage opinion" while yours is golden.. Good, saves me some energy.
That's a ridiculous requirement. In most cases, across all aspects of life, an operator is capable of recognizing faults even if they lack the technical ability to fix them. One can tell their car has problems if the windows don't come up and the brake lights don't work, and they don't have to build their own car to prove that it could be functioning better before filing a warranty claim. The same reasoning applies here. Nobody is required to make a mod and reach some arbitrary number of downloads before their opinion is considered valid--merely playing the game for a while validates them.
