Patch Notes v1.2.3 ...?

[mujadaddy]

When the enemy has lost way more fiefs and troops, when you are stronger than the enemy, it is incredibly stupid you have to pay tribute to the enemy. There is no defending it.

In your mind. The enemy is proud, and stubborn. They will not roll over to you. They have internal struggles as well. Tribute is an all-in-one number, so I cannot accept that you have actually thought about what it encapsulates. And, *to remind yet again*, you choose to pay tributes or to continue the war.

Could you answer the questions though?

Has Taleworlds stated the game is meant to be perpetual?

Buddy, if you are taking Taleworlds at their WORD in Anno Domini 2023, I do not know what to tell you. Have you played the game?

 

[Great love Immortal]

Beta v1.1.1

Latest Changes:​

Singleplayer

Kingdoms and Diplomacy

• Kingdoms now correctly determine their strength in tribute calculation, and offer to pay tribute for peace if they have taken much heavier losses.
• The AI is slightly less likely to declare war on weaker kingdoms.
• Having high relation with a noble now makes it 50% cheaper to bribe them to defect (was 5%).

Voting

• AI vote choices are now influenced by their Personality Traits.
  • Brave nobles are more likely to vote for war, Cautious ones more likely to oppose it.
  • Greedy nobles are more likely to give fiefs to themselves and vote for Policies that benefit them, Generous ones are more likely to vote for Policies that benefit the kingdom and give others fiefs.
  • Impulsive nobles are highly influenced by their Personality Traits when voting. Calculating ones are less influenced by their Personality Traits.
• AI nobles now spend more Influence to support votes proposed by someone they have high relations with.
• The AI will no longer repeat a vote which has already been called in the past 20 days.

Campaign Map

• Siege artillery is now automatically placed in reserve once constructed, with a UI notification that it is ready to deploy.
  • AI will wait to deploy artillery until they have 3 engines ready.
• Enemy nobles and garrisons now sometimes agree to surrender if heavily outnumbered.
  • Garrisons will surrender after 10 days of being besieged, if your army has 10x higher strength than theirs.
  • Nobles will agree to surrender if your party is 5x stronger than theirs.
  • Cautious nobles will agree to surrender if your party is 3x stronger than theirs.
  • Brave nobles will never surrender.
• Some enemy nobles now set the player free if they surrender.
  • Merciful nobles, or nobles with 50+ relations with the player, will let the player go free with all their items and their companions. Troops are taken prisoner.
  • If the player has the Sadistic trait or less than -50 relations, the enemy will not let them go free.
• Minor faction clan parties now replace the troops in their party with unique troops of their own culture. Eg: if a Company of the Boar party picks up a Vlandian Billman, it will convert into a Boar Champion.

Combat

• Armour Effectiveness improvements:
  • Increased armour protection against pierce damage by 1.7x.
  • Increased base damage of all spears and pikes by 2x.
  • Increased base damage of all other piercing melee weapons, and javelins, by 1.7x.
• Increased attack speed of all spears and pikes except the Pilum and Jagged Throwing Spear by 10%.
• Pilum is now throwable.
• Troops with a spear/pike now use it by default instead of their sidearm.
• Two-handed swinging polearms now have a 20% damage penalty when being used from horseback.
• Throwing axes' base damage have been increased across the board by 15%.
• Stats of all shields have been rebalanced, see below:

Spoiler: Shield stats full rebalance

Currently in Bannerlord all shields are classed as "large shields". Now there are two more categories which some shields are moved into:
"Small" - Better weight and speed. Worse coverage. Normal HP. Most targe and adarga shields are in this category.
"Light" - Better weight and speed. Normal coverage. Worse HP. Most cavalry, heater and wicker shields are in this category.
"Large" - Worse weight and speed. Better coverage. Normal HP. Most kite, pavise and round shields are in this category.

Some shields have also had their tier changed, in order to suit their appearance better and provide more representation for certain types of shield in higher or lower tiers. These shields are marked with an *asterix* beside their newly changed tier.


TIER 0
weight baseline: 6.2. Small/Light -1.
speed baseline: 80. Small/Light +10.
health baseline: 175. Light -25.
Makeshift Kite Sparring Shield -----Wt 4.2, Tier 0, SPD 82, HP 145. >>> W 5.2, T0, SP 80, HP 135. "Large".
Desert Round Sparring Shield ------Wt 7.3, Tier 0, SPD 82, HP 210. >>> W 6.2, T0, SP 85, HP 155. "Large."
Makeshift Kite Shield ------------------Wt 4.2, Tier 0, SPD 82, HP 170. >>> W 5.9, T0, SP 80, HP 165. "Large."
Simple Kite Shield ---------------------Wt 4.2, Tier 0, SPD 82, HP 175. >>> W 6.2, T0, SP 80, HP 175. "Large."
Leather Bound Kite Shield ----------Wt 6.3, Tier 0, SPD 82, HP 215. >>> W 6.2, T0, SP 80, HP 185. "Large."
Wooden Adarga -----------------------Wt 7.3, Tier 0, SPD 82, HP 240. >>> W 5.3, T0, SP 90, HP 175. "Small".
Desert Round Shield -----------------Wt 7.3, Tier 0, SPD 82, HP 245. >>> W 5.9, T0, SP 80, HP 175. "Large".
Adarga -----------------------------------Wt 4.7, Tier 0, SPD 82, HP 200. >>> W 5.1, T0, SP 91, HP 175. "Small."
Simple Horseman Kite Shield ------Wt 3.6, Tier 0, SPD 82, HP 170. >>> W 5.2, T0, SP 90, HP 160. "Light."



TIER 1
weight baseline: 5.8. Small/Light -1.
speed baseline: 81. Small/Light +10.
health baseline: 225. Light -25.
Worn Kite Shield------------------------ Wt 3.7, Tier 1, SPD 83, HP 180. >>> W 5.9, T1, SP 81, HP 205. "Large".
Simple Large Round Shield----------Wt 7.3, Tier 1, SPD 82, HP 280. >>> W 6.0, T1, SP 80, HP 230. "Large."
Wooden Kite Shield --------------------Wt 3.6, Tier 1, SPD 82, HP 190. >>> W 4.4, T1, SP 93, HP 195. "Light".
Makeshift Horseman Kite Shield ---Wt 4.0, Tier 1, SPD 82, HP 195. >>> W 4.9, T1, SP 91, HP 200. "Light"
Curved Round Shield ------------------Wt 7.3, Tier 1, SPD 82, HP 290. >>> W 5.8, T1, SP 82, HP 220. "Large"
Cavalry Kite Shield ----------------------Wt 5.5, Tier 1, SPD 94, HP 225. >>> W 5.0, T1, SP 91, HP 205. "Light"
Reinforced Desert Round Shield-----Wt 7.3, Tier 1, SPD 82, HP 300. >>> W 5.8, T1, SP 83, HP 230. "Large"
Reinforced Cavalry Small Shield---- Wt 5.8, Tier 1, SPD 82, HP 265. >>> W 4.8, T1, SP 91, HP 200. "Light"
Heater Shield with Cutout -------------Wt 4.7, Tier 1, SPD 82, HP 235. >>> W 4.7, T1, SP 94, HP 200. "Light"
Horseman sparring Kite Shield------ Wt 4.7, Tier 1, SPD 82, HP 235. >>> W 4.8, T1, SP 91, HP 215. "Light"
Small Cavalry Heater Shield ---------Wt 4.7, Tier 1, SPD 97, HP 210. >>> W 4.7, T1, SP 92, HP 200. "Light"
Small Heater Shield --------------------Wt 4.7, Tier 1, SPD 82, HP 250. >>> W 4.9, T1, SP 91, HP 205. "Light"
Studded Adarga ------------------------ Wt 4.7, Tier 1, SPD 82, HP 260. >>> W 4.4, T1, SP 91, HP 230. "Small"
Iron Rimmed Kite Shield ------------- Wt 4.7, Tier 1, SPD 82, HP 270. >>> W 5.9, T1, SP 81, HP 250. "Large"
Kite Sparring Shield -------------------Wt 4.7, Tier 1, SPD 82, HP 265. >>> W 5.8, T1, SP 82, HP 225. "Large"
Horseman Kite Shield -----------------Wt 4.7, Tier 1, SPD 82, HP 275. >>> W 4.8, T1, SP 91, HP 225. "Light"
Reinforced Flat Kite Shield ----------Wt 4.6, Tier 1, SPD 82, HP 280. >>> W 6.1, T1, SP 81, HP 265. "Large"
Large Adarga ----------------------------Wt 7.3, Tier 1, SPD 82, HP 370. >>> W 4.6, *T4*, SP 84, HP 350. "Light"
Knights Shield ---------------------------Wt 4.7, Tier 1, SPD 82, HP 285. >>> W 4.4, T1, SP 91, HP 230. "Light"



TIER 2
weight baseline: 5.4. Small/Light -1.
speed baseline: 82. Small/Light +10.
health baseline: 275. Light -25.
Reinforced Iron Rimmed Kite Shield ------Wt 4.7, Tier 2, SPD 82, HP 290. >>> W 5.5, T2, SP 82, HP 275. "Large"
Studded Bound Kite Shield -----------------Wt 4.8, Tier 2, SPD 91, HP 270. >>> W 5.4, T2, SP 82, HP 270. "Large"
Wicker Square Tournament Shield -------Wt 2.7, Tier 2, SPD 82, HP 270. >>> W 4.4, T2, SP 92, HP 225. "Light"
Light Cavalry Kite Shield --------------------Wt 1.9, Tier 2, SPD 103, HP 205. >>> W 4.3, T2, SP 92, HP 240. "Light"
Wicker Shield ----------------------------------Wt 4.7, Tier 2, SPD 82, HP 300. >>> W 4.0, *T3*, SP 93, HP 300. "Light".
Round Steppe Shield ------------------------ Wt 4.7, Tier 2, SPD 82, HP 300. >>> W 4.6, T2, SP 92, HP 250. "Light".
Kite Shield --------------------------------------Wt 4.7, Tier 2, SPD 82, HP 300. >>> W 5.4, T2, SP 81, HP 270. "Large"
Reinforced Kite Shield -----------------------Wt 5.8, Tier 2, SPD 82, HP 350. >>> W 5.5, T2, SP 81, HP 280. "Large"
Sparring Round Shield ----------------------Wt 3.3, Tier 2, SPD 87, HP 240. >>> W 5.3, T2, SP 82, HP 260. "Large"
Sturdy Cavalry Kite Shield -----------------Wt 4.7, Tier 2, SPD 101, HP 300. >>> W 4.4, T2, SP 93, HP 255. "Light"
Reinforced Cavalry Shield -----------------Wt 4.7, Tier 2, SPD 82, HP 320. >>> W 4.5, T2, SP 92, HP 265. "Light"
Small Flat Heater Shield --------------------Wt 2.5, Tier 2, SPD 95, HP 220. >>> W 4.4, T2, SP 92, HP 280. "Small"
Reinforced Large Round Shield ----------Wt 7.3, Tier 2, SPD 82, HP 430. >>> W 5.7, T2, SP 81, HP 290. "Large"
Reinforced Wicker Shield ----------------- Wt 4.7, Tier 2, SPD 82, HP 340. >>> W 3.6, *T4*, SP 94, HP 350. "Light"
Flat Heater Shield ----------------------------Wt 4.7, Tier 2, SPD 93, HP 310. >>> W 4.3, T2, SP 93, HP 250. "Light"
Wicker Square Shield -----------------------Wt 2.7, Tier 2, SPD 82, HP 260. >>> W 4.8, *T1*, SP 91, HP 200. "Light".
Desert Oval Shield ---------------------------Wt 4.7, Tier 2, SPD 82, HP 340. >>> W 5.5, T2, SP 82, HP 285. "Large".
Round Shield ----------------------------------Wt 3.3, Tier 2, SPD 87, HP 280. >>> W 5.3, T2, SP 83, HP 275. "Large".
Sparring Targe ---------------------------------Wt 2.5, Tier 2, SPD 82, HP 260. >>> W 4.2, T2, SP 93, HP 270. "Small."
Wooden Oval Shield-------------------------Wt 2.1, Tier 2, SPD 82, HP 250. >>> W 5.4, T2, SP 82, HP 290. "Large."
Reinforced Oval Shield----------------------Wt 4.7, Tier 2, SPD 82, HP 360. >>> W 5.6, T2, SP 82, HP 310. "Large."



TIER 3
weight baseline: 5.0. Small/Light -1.
speed baseline: 83. Small/Light +10.
health baseline: 325. Light -25.
Iron Rimmed Large Round Shield ----Wt 7.3, Tier 3, SPD 82, HP 480. >>> W 6.5, T3, SP 81, HP 380. "Large."
Bracketed Heater Shield ----------------Wt 4.7, Tier 3, SPD 82, HP 370. >>> W 5.2, T3, SP 83, HP 320. "Large."
Reinforced Oaken Kite Shield ---------Wt 5.8, Tier 3, SPD 82, HP 430. >>> W 5.4, T3, SP 83, HP 340. "Large."
Reinforced Large Round Shield ------Wt 7.3, Tier 3, SPD 82, HP 490. >>> W 6.1, T3, SP 82, HP 380. "Large."
Iron Round Shield ------------------------Wt 7.3, Tier 3, SPD 82, HP 520. >>> W 4.0, T3, SP 94, HP 320. "Small."
Decorated Round Shield ----------------Wt 4.7, Tier 3, SPD 82, HP 400. >>> W 4.9, T3, SP 83, HP 330. "Large."
Large Round Shield ----------------------Wt 6.9, Tier 3, SPD 89, HP 480. >>> W 3.9, *T5*, SP 84, HP 410. "Large."
Decorated Oval Shield ------------------Wt 4.7, Tier 3, SPD 82, HP 410. >>> W 5.3, T3, SP 84, HP 335. "Large."
Ornate Adarga -----------------------------Wt 4.7, Tier 3, SPD 82, HP 420. >>> W 3.9, T3, SP 95, HP 325. "Small."
Reinforced Cavalry Kite Shield --------Wt 4.9, Tier 3, SPD 82, HP 430. >>> W 4.2, T3, SP 93, HP 330. "Light."
Tribal Steppe Shield ----------------------Wt 4.7, Tier 3, SPD 82, HP 440. >>> W 3.8, T3, SP 93, HP 305. "Light."
Targe ----------------------------------------- Wt 2.5, Tier 3, SPD 82, HP 330. >>> W 4.0, T3, SP 94, HP 340. "Small."
Pavise Shield--------------------------------Wt 7.0, Tier 3, SPD 82, HP 560. >>> W 6.4, T3, SP 82, HP 435. "Large."



TIER 4
weight baseline: 4.6. Small/Light -1.
speed baseline: 84. Small/Light +10.
health baseline: 375. Light -25.
Highland Large Shield----------------------------Wt 3.5, Tier 4, SPD 82, HP 390. >>> W 4.6, T4, SP 83, HP 370. "Large."
Wide Heater Shield -------------------------------Wt 4.7, Tier 4, SPD 82, HP 450. >>> W 4.7, T4, SP 84, HP 375. "Large."
Reinforced Wicker Square Shield -------------Wt 2.7, Tier 4, SPD 82, HP 370. >>> W 4.4, *T2*, SP 92, HP 250. "Light."
Highland Round Shield --------------------------Wt 4.7, Tier 4, SPD 82, HP 440. >>> W 4.9, T4, SP 85, HP 390. "Large."
Decorated Eastern Shield -----------------------Wt 4.7, Tier 4, SPD 82, HP 480. >>> W 3.6, T4, SP 95, HP 350. "Light."
Eastern Cavalry Shield ---------------------------Wt 2.7, Tier 4, SPD 82, HP 380. >>> W 3.4, T4, SP 94, HP 350. "Light."
Fortified Kite Shield -------------------------------Wt 5.4, Tier 4, SPD 82, HP 530. >>> W 5.3, T4, SP 86, HP 395. "Large."
Bronze Reinforced Highland Large Shield --Wt 3.5, Tier 4, SPD 82, HP 430. >>> W 4.5, T4, SP 84, HP 390. "Large."
Reinforced Targe -----------------------------------Wt 2.5, Tier 4, SPD 82, HP 380. >>> W 3.7, T4, SP 94, HP 405. "Small."
Norse Round Shield ------------------------------Wt 3.5, Tier 4, SPD 82, HP 430. >>> W 3.8, *T6*, SP 86, HP 475. "Large."
Heavy Round Shield ------------------------------Wt 4.7, Tier 4, SPD 86, HP 500. >>> W 6.0, T4, SP 83, HP 430. "Large."



TIER 5
weight baseline: 4.2. Small/Light -1.
speed baseline: 85. Small/Light +10.
health baseline: 425. Light -25.
Knights Kite Shield ---------------------------------Wt 4.7, Tier 5, SPD 82, HP 550. >>> W 3.6, T5, SP 95, HP 400. "Light."
Iron Reinforced Highland Large Shield -------Wt 3.5, Tier 5, SPD 82, HP 480. >>> W 4.1, T5, SP 86, HP 425. "Large."
Steel Round Shield --------------------------------- Wt 4.0, Tier 5, SPD 82, HP 520. >>> W 4.9, T5, SP 85, HP 475. "Large."



TIER 6
weight baseline: 3.8. Small/Light -1.
speed baseline: 86. Small/Light +10.
health baseline: 475. Light -25.
Heavy Heater Shield ------------------------------ Wt 3.3, Tier 6, SPD 87, HP 510. >>> W 4.8, T6, SP 83, HP 500. "Large."
Tall Heater Shield -----------------------------------Wt 2.1, Tier 6, SPD 85, HP 540. >>> W 3.8, T6, SP 86, HP 450. "Large."

Troops and Equipment

• T5 units have been added to the military minor factions.
  • Ghilman new T5 troop: "Ghulam Kingmaker."
  • Last Legion new T2 troop: "Velites." Triarii, Principes and Hastiati have each been moved up a tier and their equipment improved.
  • Skolderbroda new T3 troop: "Shield Broda." Veteran Broda and Warrior Broda have each been moved up a tier and their equipment improved.
  • Company of the Boar new T3 troop: "Boar Campaigner." Veteran and Champion have been moved up a tier and their equipment improved.

Other

• Rain visual effects are now enabled.
• The bug causing AI generated children to be clones has been fixed.
• New balding male haircut option. @Gnjus

Multiplayer

• Added official multiplayer servers for continents which have no official servers.
• Fixed constant server crashes.

---

This is, of course, NOT the real patch notes. But it COULD be! I think these changes would make Bannerlord much more fun and interesting, and much less frustrating.

Other forumites: Do you like this idea? What other changes would you like to see in 1.1.1?

Can we add culture-appropriate looters to the list? It is kind of weird that in Aserai territory you have some guy who looks and sounds like an Englishman.

 

[Goyyyio]

In your mind. The enemy is proud, and stubborn. They will not roll over to you. They have internal struggles as well. Tribute is an all-in-one number, so I cannot accept that you have actually thought about what it encapsulates. And, *to remind yet again*, you choose to pay tributes or to continue the war.

Uh, yeah, bro I understand you roleplay but "the enemy" is just a bugged AI that just makes terrible choices, no signs of personality here. Sure, you can roleplay every weird thing about this game... That doesnt mean it's intentional nor fun.

Raghea fell in love with me and told me to become her King, she has an amazing personality

Lords make me pay tribute despite 10 of them being in Jail, they sure are proud people!

 

[mujadaddy]

Excellent question, and I'm sure you can find hints in dev statements (mex?) that this is indeed their intention, to prolong the game artificially with grinding endless battles. That was part of their endgame "design" in Warband too.
Why is this a good thing, I fail to understand. There's indeed a group of players who prefer an endless campaign with their favorite character, but normal people like a satisfying closure more.

I think I see the problem, and it's genre-confusion.

This is not a game you 'win'. This is a game you play. It is an ongoing simulation of Calradia, where one determined person can make a difference in history, but is not infinitely powerful.

This is not an infinite-power, I-win, pick-me, closed-loop campaign game. And the simulation is not of running a kingdom, it is of fighting in small, visceral battles. Take that information and do with it what you will.

Uh, yeah, bro I understand you

No you don't. You didn't even bother to understand my comment.

 

[Goyyyio]

I think I see the problem, and it's genre-confusion.

This is not a game you 'win'. This is a game you play. It is an ongoing simulation of Calradia, where one determined person can make a difference in history, but is not infinitely powerful.

This is not an infinite-power, I-win, pick-me, closed-loop campaign game. And the simulation is not of running a kingdom, it is of fighting in small, visceral battles. Take that information and do with it what you will.


No you don't. You didn't even bother to understand my comment.

No, I did. You mean to say that the AI response to losing a war is to ask for high tribute, and arguing that they do that they are stubborn and proud, that they have "internal struggle" this is entirely fictional, the AI doesn't have internal struggled nor they act stubborn or proud, its just a bad programming and it's not determined by the faction's characters personality, which is something that would be cool, but it's not real my man, you would have actual different outcomes if that was the case and the game would be more interesting.

This is not a game you 'win'. This is a game you play. It is an ongoing simulation of Calradia, where one determined person can make a difference in history, but is not infinitely powerful

See, the ongoing simulation is also a repetition of the same thing over and over, nothing really changes is just the same events in different places, if for example the AI actually had some personality you would get the feeling you're fighting in an actual simulated world, what's actually happening is that you're capturing the same castles over and over until you decide to emprision everyone or murder people, and then get back to the same thing.

 

[mujadaddy]

You mean to say that the AI response to losing a war is to ask for high tribute

Not what *I* ever said. If you are being asked for tribute, you are not winning enough. "Git gud", qv.

nothing really changes is just the same events in different places

I'm not sure why you think this means anything, as I've already said the simulation is intended to be ongoing. Maybe you have a cute cartoon for you not understanding the entire point?

 

[Goyyyio]

Not what *I* ever said. If you are being asked for tribute, you are not winning enough. "Git gud", qv.

I don't know what your playthroughs are for you but having 10 lord prisoners is enough for me not to play tribute, its dumb. Why were you stating "they're stubborn and proud" bro this is a game programmed they're not actual people you know that right?

I'm not sure why you think this means anything, as I've already said the simulation is intended to be ongoing. Maybe you have a cute cartoon for you not understanding the entire point?

Uh no, you're not getting my point. Yeah it's ongoing, and the point it's that it's poorly made and it's boring and repetitive. That's the whole issue here. It turns into grinding because you're doing the same thing over and over, and therefore it's just grinding, which is what MadVader was saying.

 

[mujadaddy]

I don't know what your playthroughs are for you but having 10 lord prisoners is enough for me not to play tribute

So it's not a big deal then? Some people seem to think it's a big deal and whine constantly about having to pay tribute when they're not ahead, and then, when the enemy is completely dispossessed, they whine about having to pay tribute instead of fight, in a game about fighting.

it's boring, it turns into grinding

That's why I tried to open your imagination up, to try to maybe see it from a different perspective. If you find hitting people in the face with a spear boring, maybe this isn't the game for you.

 

[Totalgarbage]

Not what *I* ever said. If you are being asked for tribute, you are not winning enough. "Git gud", qv.

I'm not sure why you think this means anything, as I've already said the simulation is intended to be ongoing. Maybe you have a cute cartoon for you not understanding the entire point?

Man, I don't understand how you can think your position is even the tiniest bit sensible. While there is "some" logic in tributes, it's not a "git gud" situation. There are still many many many instances when you completely defeat a fiefless faction and have taken 2/3s of their lords as prisoner and yet they still hire minor factions with money they don't have and still ask your faction for tribute. These lords should have some material consideration or at least think about their own goddamn lives.

It's completely nonsensical that you think that this is okay. These fiefless factions should've already been destroyed some time after losing all their fiefs rather than declaring their nth pointless war on you. You've already "gotten gud" by completely demolishing the enemy faction several times. Your argument doesn't exist for any reason other than to make yourself think you're better than other people in some meaningless pissing contest you've made up in your mind. People complaining about the war/peace declarations and tribute calculations are the same people who're arguing that the game should be made harder, not easier. It's not hard or fun to fight against factions you've completely decimated or functionally crippled for the 11th time while you're already at war against 2 other factions, it's just brain numbingly tedious.

 

[Yoshioki Ouchi]

It's completely nonsensical that you think that this is okay. These fiefless factions should've already been destroyed some time after losing all their fiefs rather than declaring their nth pointless war on you. You've already "gotten gud" by completely demolishing the enemy faction several times. Your argument doesn't exist for any reason other than to make yourself think you're better than other people in some meaningless pissing contest you've made up in your mind. People complaining about the war/peace declarations and tribute calculations are the same people who're arguing that the game should be made harder, not easier. It's not hard or fun to fight against factions you've completely decimated or functionally crippled for the 11th time while you're already at war against 2 other factions, it's just brain numbingly tedious.

Yeah, they really have to "take another look at the lifecycle of clans and kingdoms" or whatever it was I remember reading being part of their roadmap.

As it is, I do think the problem is overstated because the solution is as simple as ignoring them and keeping the war going on forever. A landless kingdom isn't capable of posing a serious threat if it has no opportunity to replenish troops (or do whatever it has to to form armies capable of taking castles/cities) and could even be used as a grinding post to quickly raise up fresh troops (for friendly A.I. at least--I can't be bothered lol). They usually migrate towards a losing kingdom and take over a castle or city of theirs (and thus cease to bedevil you in the short term) but they'll continue with their meaningless acts of terrorism until then. However, I do think it's annoying to see formerly wonderful cities reduced to ghettos because of "freedom fighters" though... there should be a hidden clock that ticks down (maybe over a year or two) at the end of which the faction dissipates and the clans comprising it become neutral factions until they're picked up (by you or other factions).

I do like the idea of fallen kingdoms reconstituting, but I think it ought to be done in a way that results in less domestic terrorism. For example; when cites rebel and go independent, perhaps that'd be the time for a fallen kingdom to restore itself (and to make things more dramatic, during the "dead" period these clans could have long since left their liege for another kingdom but now that they're nominally back there's a chance they might defect back to their original cultural faction--or something).

 

[Totalgarbage]

As it is, I do think the problem is overstated because the solution is as simple as ignoring them and keeping the war going on forever. A landless kingdom isn't capable of posing a serious threat if it has no opportunity to replenish troops (or do whatever it has to to form armies capable of taking castles/cities) and could even be used as a grinding post to quickly raise up fresh troops (for friendly A.I. at least--I can't be bothered lol). They usually migrate towards a losing kingdom and take over a castle or city of theirs (and thus cease to bedevil you in the short term) but they'll continue with their meaningless acts of terrorism until then. However, I do think it's annoying to see formerly wonderful cities reduced to ghettos because of "freedom fighters" though... there should be a hidden clock that ticks down (maybe over a year or two) at the end of which the faction dissipates and the clans comprising it become neutral factions until they're picked up (by you or other factions).

Landless factions (I'm talking about factions who've lost their last fief a while ago) wouldn't pose any issue if they couldn't hire minor factions or if your lords actually left some troops in newly conquered settlements, the problem would be much less annoying. It's true that landless factions don't really pose much difficulty other than annoyance 90% of the time, but then they somehow manage to take over a town or a castle by hiring 4-5 minor factions with money they don't/shouldn't have.

Along with this problem, one of the biggest issues of the late game is that it just extends the game so needlessly when it's in plain sight that you've already won the game (for example when you have more than double the noted strength of all remaining factions combined but somehow your lords can't manage to take remaining fiefs on their own or make any advance whatsoever because they all tunnel vision towards some random enemies that's attempting to raid some villages despite the faction's army stance being in offensive.

I do like the idea of fallen kingdoms reconstituting, but I think it ought to be done in a way that results in less domestic terrorism. For example; when cites rebel and go independent, perhaps that'd be the time for a fallen kingdom to restore itself (and to make things more dramatic, during the "dead" period these clans could have long since left their liege for another kingdom but now that they're nominally back there's a chance they might defect back to their original cultural faction--or something).

I think landless factions (so basically remaining the ruler clan) should just devolve into being minor clans who're constantly at war with the faction that took their last fief or something when they're not employed by other kingdoms (who can't be the faction that took their last fief).

 

[Goyyyio]

So it's not a big deal then? Some people seem to think it's a big deal and whine constantly about having to pay tribute when they're not ahead, and then, when the enemy is completely dispossessed, they whine about having to pay tribute instead of fight, in a game about fighting.

That's why I tried to open your imagination up, to try to maybe see it from a different perspective.

And are the people that lose a war and complain about having consequences about it in this room? Because I literally never saw that complaint, and neither I have made that argument myself. When the enemy is completely dispossessed we are the ones that should be holding the rails, not the enemy, which is why it's completely nonsensical that you have to pay them to end a war you can keep winning. You may argue that the AI is stubborn, but again, this makes no sense, why would they want you to pay them to end a war, when they are going to keep losing after you obviously decline and even face doom. If AI actually had personalities and this changed through each faction, it would make sense, but like you said, that is all in your imagination.

There isn't even a negotiation you can have, just an option the AI gives you and the only say you have is yes or no, which is also nonsensical and poor world building. It's less choices for the player.

If you find hitting people in the face with a spear boring, maybe this isn't the game for you.

This is an entirely different subject. We're not discussing wether the in scene fighting is fun or not, we're discussing the poor design choices in the main world which is 50% if not more, of the gameplay. And just to clarify, fighting is the part I enjoy the more, but its counterpart (strategy, diplomacy, interaction with NPC, world events) is so lacking, the context of the fighting is not fun anymore, which is why I end up playing multiplayer instead, where at least I have some actual stakes at hand I can worry about, and it's why you imagine the context for the fighting in your head, like you say, instead of the game providing it for you.

I see you like derailing with strange arguments that are out of the conversation so I don't think I'll bother here anymore.

 

[Yoshioki Ouchi]

Landless factions (I'm talking about factions who've lost their last fief a while ago) wouldn't pose any issue if they couldn't hire minor factions or if your lords actually left some troops in newly conquered settlements, the problem would be much less annoying. It's true that landless factions don't really pose much difficulty other than annoyance 90% of the time, but then they somehow manage to take over a town or a castle by hiring 4-5 minor factions with money they don't/shouldn't have.

Even mercenaries cease to be an issue after a while of endless war. I've only completed one playthrough (that is, unified all Calradia) recently, but I can't say landless factions have ever been able to take land off of me unless it was a recently conquered border castle/city with, like, 50 troops (total) or less. They just cease to be a meaningful threat or obstacle. You don't need an active defense force once the landless faction's been beaten down enough (and that's why I end up vetoing calls for peace against them; peace just gives them a chance to regroup and actually have a possibility of taking fiefs from you).

Along with this problem, one of the biggest issues of the late game is that it just extends the game so needlessly when it's in plain sight that you've already won the game (for example when you have more than double the noted strength of all remaining factions combined but somehow your lords can't manage to take remaining fiefs on their own or make any advance whatsoever because they all tunnel vision towards some random enemies that's attempting to raid some villages despite the faction's army stance being in offensive.

I'd say the biggest issue is actually post-conquest staffing. Their priorities are... "interesting," but they're workable. What tends to result in grid lock is them (generally) refusing to stock conquered territories with troops from their own units unless the ruler is not the player (in which case they're likely to contribute at least a hundred random troops give or take). If they applied the same "generosity" to player-rulers as they did the A.I., human players wouldn't have to spend so much time either cleaning up after them (i.e., staffing what they take) or using them as a distraction while they do the real conquering/staffing elsewhere.

Of course, improvements in attack/defense priorities would be fantastic, but the thing that stalls the clean-up part of the unification game is A.I. vassal apathy towards player-owned fiefs (and since rulers always own the fiefs before they're assigned, that means everything they take except in rare circumstances where they're unusually "generous" or the vote happens basically immediately). A.I. enemies, including landless factions, prioritize castles/cities with basically no troops in my observations.

 

[Totalgarbage]

I'd say the biggest issue is actually post-conquest staffing. Their priorities are... "interesting," but they're workable. What tends to result in grid lock is them (generally) refusing to stock conquered territories with troops from their own units unless the ruler is not the player (in which case they're likely to contribute at least a hundred random troops give or take). If they applied the same "generosity" to player-rulers as they did the A.I., human players wouldn't have to spend so much time either cleaning up after them (i.e., staffing what they take) or using them as a distraction while they do the real conquering/staffing elsewhere.

Of course, improvements in attack/defense priorities would be fantastic, but the thing that stalls the clean-up part of the unification game is A.I. vassal apathy towards player-owned fiefs (and since rulers always own the fiefs before they're assigned, that means everything they take except in rare circumstances where they're unusually "generous" or the vote happens basically immediately). A.I. enemies, including landless factions, prioritize castles/cities with basically no troops in my observations.

This is also a major issue I've noted. Yes, AI should actually leave more troops on newly taken settlements, this would both make attrition more notable and slow down sieges while also making it so that newly taken settlements don't fall to a single random lord and his warband of 70 units.

 

[JunKeteer]

This is also a major issue I've noted. Yes, AI should actually leave more troops on newly taken settlements, this would both make attrition more notable and slow down sieges while also making it so that newly taken settlements don't fall to a single random lord and his warband of 70 units.

It's also because castles are easy to take - and tweaking the calc even more favorably towards the defenders might not be the solution at this point (given how easy it is for player to abuse). So they swap possession of that exact same castle over and over in the same war until the garrison trickles to ~20 units only. While they are somehow holding 300 prisoners - the enemy takes the castle, and immediately now has 300 gained units.

 

[Retrobarbaari]

So it's not a big deal then? Some people seem to think it's a big deal and whine constantly about having to pay tribute when they're not ahead, and then, when the enemy is completely dispossessed, they whine about having to pay tribute instead of fight, in a game about fighting.

There is NO FIGHT LEFT when the enemy has been totally destroyed, they have lost all their towns and castles, and their lords sit in your prisons. Their troops are rubbish recruits that any half-witted thumbless fool beats without anny losses of their own troops.
No fight left. The only thing the enemy is capable, is trying to raid your villages.

It's a fail in game development, not proud and stubborn enemies.

 

[Lord Irontoe]

It was pretty common in history for big empires to pay off invading barbarian hordes to go away and not harass their territories. But the thing is, those barbarians usually posed a real threat to those empires, in that trying to wipe them out could be very costly, so it was often cheaper and safer to just pay the tribute. I don't think it was common to pay off weak enemies, though, and I don't know of a single case in history where a victorious kingdom paid tribute to its defeated enemy. Unless you want to count the Marshall Plan, but in that case, we should be getting to vote on their policies and fief assignments.

 

[five bucks]

It was pretty common in history for big empires to pay off invading barbarian hordes to go away and not harass their territories. But the thing is, those barbarians usually posed a real threat to those empires, in that trying to wipe them out could be very costly, so it was often cheaper and safer to just pay the tribute. I don't think it was common to pay off weak enemies, though, and I don't know of a single case in history where a victorious kingdom paid tribute to its defeated enemy. Unless you want to count the Marshall Plan, but in that case, we should be getting to vote on their policies and fief assignments.

Yeah this. The late Romans only paid tribute to the Goths for example because they straight up killed their emperor. Even then it was more of a stipend.

Bannerlord's war score calculation massively overvalues raids.

 

[mujadaddy]

The only thing the enemy is capable, is trying to raid your villages.

So, it's not a problem then?

It's a fail in game development

According to you? Lol.

are the people that lose a war and complain about having consequences about it in this room? (complains about the consequences)

I'm glad you're finally giving up.

 

[danEN]

The enemy is proud, and stubborn. They will not roll over to you.