Shrug. I don't care for labels. Are my thoughts wrong? No. You never even argued against them. You just labelled and dismissed them.
Feminism
- Thread starter Úlfheðinn
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Humanity evolved to deal with reality through pattern recognition and labelling. That crutch also lets us see spurious patterns which reinforce our prejudices or perspectives.
I didn't dismiss your beliefs in an attempt to be fair to you. The rest is jokes, hopefully obvious.
You can be a conservative and authoritarian and still a good person.
Theoretically.
Edit: although a better word for your view on society would be paternalistic rather than authoritarian, but no one uses the word anymore for some reason.
General statements are sometimes too general.
Labels help as communication shortcuts. They don't even need to be precise, although that's the ideal.
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Madvader's entire worldview is based around political labels. You presented a pretty mild, broadly confucian viewpoint that some 90% of Asian people (even liberals) already believe, but madvader is pretty content to just call you a Nazi and not have to engage with any of it.
That has nothing to do with change in society. You can't force a large number of people to do something they don't want to do. Americans were still drinking alcohol during prohibitionism. Abortions still happen after they are made illegal. You could make all weapons illegal, and people would still find ways to buy them if they are motivated enough. If there are have been changes on the way people see women and the LGBT community it's because people agree with that. As far as I know no one has invented a magic mind control ray yet.
It literally is. These movements want to change society so that it accepts their ideas and lifestyles.
There have been many atrocities in the history of mankind that are about forcing people to do something they don't want. Do you think the jews wanted to go to concentration camps? No. Fact is you can force a large number of people. Back then people used threats of violence. Nowadays people use laws and censorship.
This is ridiculously naive. There are countless people who disagree with the LGBT movement. They just can't voice it IRL because establishments will punish them for it. Your employers will fire you and people will call you a bigot without even bothering to hear your reasons. This is exactly what I meant with censorship. Go to the internet and you will see a lot of people disagreeing with LGBT anonymously.
That's what grank means, though. Prohibition was a failed moral crusade forced on a population by specific interest groups. It failed because they tried to enforce by law something that can only change by mass consent over time, i.e. the broad cultural relationship with alcohol.
Similarly, when American NGOs send liberal feminists to afghanistan to "teach" them how to "liberate" themselves, that is a forced societal change. Islam has its own feminist movement that works within the framework of Islamic beliefs rather than just ignoring and trying to bulldoze them, and it has arisen from Islam itself rather than a completely different culture.
AFAIK gender dysphoria results when genital/physical sexuality conflicts with brain/mental sexuality. As both are determined at different times prior to birth, none of us control our biological sex or mental sexual identity. Difficult to justify persecuting people because they're born different. IMO better to let consenting adults inter-relate how they wish.
Inappropriate behavior
It's also worth noting that prohibition initially gathered popularity because it was actually appealing. Women humanely asking men to get their act together and stop drinking so much. It touched the hearts of many people and people voluntarily stopped drinking. It was after people went aggressive that it started getting opposition.
I'd agree with science when it says gender dysphoria is a real condition. People shouldn't discriminate those with gender dysphoria, as you said. Thing is, the LGBT movement is blown so out of proportion that it's no longer about that. People now confuse clueless kids and groom them into being trans. It shuts down the voice of parents who don't like having their kids groomed by strangers on the Internet. Many people with actual gender dysphoria have voiced that they don't like what the movement is doing.
Same with feminism. The original idea was appealing. Women shouldn't be treated like crap. Sure. Good. But now it has turned into a movement that insult men, call masculinity toxic, and push for female elitism. If they want people to agree with them, they should be appealing. Screaming and insulting those who disagree with you is not appealing.
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Saying someone is Confucian when his views can be adequately explained as
Also, that is exactly what Chinese nationalists would say. Coincidence comrade?
Traditional conservatism doesn't want to change just because they're comfy with the current system. I advocate for people to actually do real, proper work if they want to change the world. Not just lazily picking a trending ideology and blindly pushing it by shouting like a banshee on social media hoping the world will change before Christmas rolls in.
That's news to me.
do not spread this transphobic conspiracy **** here. it is flatly false, that's not how any of it works.
What would you, as an alleged follower of Confucius (and also Lao Tse, Sun Tzu and Keanu Reeves), define as "real, proper work" when it comes to acceptance of transsexuals?
Sure, but that is not change in society. Changes in ways women and the LGBT community are viewed in a certain part of the world happened because the majority of people there agree with them. No argument on the Americans failing hard at "liberating" foreign countries. Honestly that kinda reinforces my point, you can't force a society to change.
The reason why sexism and homophobia are rejected (kind of, I feel like saying that is an oversemplification) in modern western society is because most people agree that they are wrong. Corporation don't do it because they are warm and cuddly, they do it because it's good PR and it wouldn't be good PR if people didn't agree with it.
As someone both affected and extremely disillusioned by post-commie Eastern European movements I find last couple of thread pages quite confusing. I just want to oppose Grank's 'take it slow, yo' attitude, even if I can't dress it up in actual arguments.
Adults of any sexual persuasion grooming kids is unacceptable.
it is, but again, this conspiracy theory about trans people grooming kids into being trans is, well, an absurd conspiracy. it's imagined nonsense.
and, since apparently i wasn't clear enough, there won't be any more of it in this thread.
and, since apparently i wasn't clear enough, there won't be any more of it in this thread.
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Inappropriate behavior
It's normal that you're confused. It means you understand that the world is complex, and what I've said in the past couple pages has some sense in them. Remember, what I'm preaching for is balance, not some kind of slow-ism vs fast-ism. Not everything needs to be done slowly. The communism issue is one example. However, we were talking about feminism and LGBT, which are, these days, being pushed too rapidly and aggressively. This current speed and the nature of the issues make them the type that needs to be done slowly and carefully. We're in no real rush like a war or mass starvation. Feminism and LGBT are both issues that affect family lives and our reproduction as a species. You need to actually test and observe how your plans work out before you push it into the mass. A clear example of family-structure-altering policy going wrong has already happened in China. The one-child policy resulted in a demographic crisis that's going to make life very difficult in a few years. Notice how long it took them to notice the destructive impact that this policy brings.
For starter, you can try to actually listen and understand people who disagree with you instead of just dismissing them with a label or straight up sewing their handsome kissable lips. It's not as easy as is sounds, as both you and Antoine have demonstrated. It requires patience and an open mind. Had you actually been reading, you might have found merit in what I've said. You might have understood how Indonesians think, and how to better push for LGBT-acceptance in Indonesia and other Asian countries. The more proper form of this, is research. Do proper, actual research. Take the time and effort. Don't just lazily throw any opposition to the bigotry basket.
When it comes to acceptance, patience is most important. People will not accept you if you're aggressive and obnoxious. For example, I know gay people are just normal people. They can talk normally, work normally, joke normally. Therefore I have no reason to crap on them. Can trans people be normal and cool? Show it then. Just be normal.
[transphobic crap removed]
Simply show that trans people can live a normal, healthy and fulfilling life to ripe old age, just like other people. This is not easy, mind you. It takes years and a lot of patience.
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this would be more convincing if you didn't immediately follow it up with a bunch of transphobic stereotypes and absurd generalisations.
i've gone ahead and removed them from your post for you. do not post them again.
