I have some questions about Bloc

[Stefmon]

Sometimes companies suffer from really rigid production pipelines. Like a solid plan of what gets done when and how and why. The thing is that this game is multi faceted with a lot of components. The game's design in itself is fluid, changing significantly depending on the additional experiences we see in, for example, mods.

If TW is following a very strict road map, isn't using AGILE development techniques and isn't looking at the state of the game now as an issue to be solved, then this is probably why we don't see the regular updates and direct fixes the game needs. Somewhere a plan has already been made about what needs to happen. When they get there, they can look back and fix, or just move on.
Like someone already mentioned, looking at code you wrote months ago aint easy.

I was about to say we don't know how the company works, but I decided to look at reviews on glassdoor. I really recommend it, it's quite interesting. Most notably, I found it funny that a QA analyst said it was a good thing that there are no deadlines. Some comments about poor management. Slow development mentioned across the board. Recent reviews say the employees are treated well, which is a big deal for the east (speak from experience) but the further back you go you see some pretty scathing reviews from people who were onboard during warband even. Go read the one from 2019, it's quite unfortunate.

Well, some of my questions are answered..

TaleWorlds Reviews: What Is It Like to Work At TaleWorlds?

28 TaleWorlds reviews. A free inside look at company reviews and salaries posted anonymously by employees.

www.glassdoor.co.uk

 

[xdj1nn]

How to lose all credibility and respect in record time.

ppl seeking that are generally those who shouldn't get any, so I'm fine with it and won't be going all chicken-**** on my honesty, I'm always honest, those who aren't I simply see as human-rubbish. The main difference between me and some random person's that I can re-learn it in a few weeks, and in half a year be on a professional level again. So why should I care if I hate doing it? I even hinted at that multiple times, that there's a world where I decide to code again and start making mods to "fix" BL under my view. I still doubt I'll actually do it.
During university, every time I had to code something it made me want to gouge my own eyes out...

Yes, sure. That´s of course a valid reason. But his "serve as a soldier" mod worked, no crashes, no impact on the sandbox experience?!

You could install the mod, and don´t serve as a soldier and the game would be the same as vanilla Bannerlord.

EDIT:

I mean not more crashes than vanilla.

it worked for some time but than it didn't (I've personally troubleshooted SaS mod recently - both 1.7 and 1.8 - mod causes crashes that are ultimately TW's fault, but regardless it makes the game exceptionally unstable) - doesn't change my mind that the mod should be in the base-game from the get go...

 

[Grank]

The main difference between me and some random person's that I can re-learn it in a few weeks, and in half a year be on a professional level again.

Any random person can learn coding in a few weeks, actually, but there's a lot of nuance in the actual work. You can be an expert in 10 programming languages and hundreds of frameworks and libraries, but if you haven't learned Bannerlord's module system, you wouldn't be able to work on it without learning it first. Actual coding work is very contextual.

It's the same with the more general knowledge of the field, like data structure, algorithm and architecture. You might think you know them from attending classes and reading texts, but you won't truly understand them until you actually code them down. Even experts often find their initial ideas wrong when they're coding them down. There's also the fact that data structure etc aren't always "up to standards" or "intuitive" in real implementations. Exceptions sometimes need to be made to accommodate certain conditions, and they're something that you won't understand until you're actually swimming in that particular puddle of mud.

 

[xdj1nn]

Any random person can learn coding in a few weeks, actually, but there's a lot of nuance in the actual work. You can be an expert in 10 programming languages and hundreds of frameworks and libraries, but if you haven't learned Bannerlord's module system, you wouldn't be able to work on it without learning it first. Actual coding work is very contextual.

It's the same with the more general knowledge of the field, like data structure, algorithm and architecture. You might think you know them from attending classes and reading texts, but you won't truly understand them until you actually code them down. Even experts often find their initial ideas wrong when they're coding them down. There's also the fact that data structure etc aren't always "up to standards" or "intuitive" in real implementations. Exceptions sometimes need to be made to accommodate certain conditions, and they're something that you won't understand until you're actually swimming in that particular puddle of mud.

hmm, tell me more to post on my blog
I self-learned programming at the age of 11, made a doc editor at the time which I thought nothing of... Years later I was asked to present it in my high-school when representants from MS, IBM, etc made some big event there - as such I was virtually forced to make presentations of my odd child project...

Years later I went to Game Development college, and oddly enough got degrees on it... I surely don't know how coding works, if it weren't for you I'd be lost in this world - my lack of expertise and skill on it is the reason why I can't code for crap, not the fact that I hate doing it and avoid whenever possible.

PS: And you are wrong, when you have studied programming logic you can learn anything related to coding - if you never learned it, you'll get stuck in trial&error loops; "Anyone can code" isn't a reality, it depends what you are coding, the level of complexity of your program's goal, and with what you are dealing with. Someone who studied it as a specialization, can do all of them given they are willing to adapt, most pros aren't hence why we get super specific specialists - when it comes to game modding, yes you gotta learn the libraries, but that's quick if you are provided proper documentation, that doesn't mean ppl manage to make mods like Bloc does.... Since I work with film I can give a decent example: anyone can make a film, not everyone can make a decent film, even less so a good one.

 

[Grank]

I self-learned programming at the age of 11 [...] I thought nothing of... [...]was asked to present it in my high-school[...]

Ah I see. You're one of those smart kids who got a big head because you were complimented for doing something that was impressive for a kid.

my lack of expertise and skill on it is the reason why I can't code for crap, not the fact that I hate doing it and avoid whenever possible.

So what? Functionally still the same thing. You can't code for crap.

It'd be like me boasting that I could've beaten 20 guys in a fight if I didn't avoid working out cuz sweats suck and fighting is big ouchie me no like.

And you are wrong

Then you proceeded to say the same things as I did. You even contradicted yourself, saying anyone can learn but not anyone can make mods like Bloc. Oh gee I wonder why. Could it be because Bloc actually coded for years instead of just running his mouth and trying to mod after learning basic coding for a few weeks?

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

The main difference between me and some random person's that I can re-learn it in a few weeks, and in half a year be on a professional level again. So why should I care if I hate doing it?

Because half of your posts are just you boasting or making sweeping statements about coding that prove you don't have any real experience with it. You say "this would be easy!!" to things that are actually quite difficult, and "only a god tier coder could do this" to things that are standard knowledge to most game devs.

I am a "random person" and I learned C++ in a few weeks in 2020. So what, even my grandmother could probably learn C++ if she wanted. I had zero contextual knowledge or experience back then, and no way to apply it to anything other than number crunching or string parsing. Until you've actually done practical coding to make something, you can't talk about it with any credibility. Saying "I suck at coding and avoid it at all costs", while i respect your honesty, is incongruous with the amount of time you spend talking about how the Bannerlord coders are all lazy and suck and need to change their methods.

 

[guiskj]

How do I know that someone is not a coder or at least a novice one? They talk about languages.

Writing enterprise software or consumer-facing software is akin to writing a novel. Just because you can speak English, doesn't mean you are able to or should write a novel.

I stopped giving a flipping **** about languages right around the time I started seeing myself as a professional software developer.

 

[xdj1nn]

Ah I see. You're one of those smart kids who got a big head because you were complimented for doing something that was impressive for a kid.


So what? Functionally still the same thing. You can't code for crap.

It'd be like me boasting that I could've beaten 20 guys in a fight if I didn't avoid working out cuz sweats suck and fighting is big ouchie me no like.


Then you proceeded to say the same things as I did. You even contradicted yourself, saying anyone can learn but not anyone can make mods like Bloc. Oh gee I wonder why. Could it be because Bloc actually coded for years instead of just running his mouth and trying to mod after learning basic coding for a few weeks?

you were just tying to pick a fight for nothing and ended up throwing endless strawmen arguments there. I still am unhinged by your foolish attempt at attacking me for no reason at all
I simply said that to me "can do X" doesn't mean "can" as in "possible", but can as in performing well at it. So backtracking to what I said first: "can't code for crap" means "can't do it at an acceptable level at all currently" - You should've taken more time learning interpratation during your elementary and high-school years friend.

How do I know that someone is not a coder or at least a novice one? They talk about languages.

Writing enterprise software or consumer-facing software is akin to writing a novel. Just because you can speak English, doesn't mean you are able to or should write a novel.

I stopped giving a flipping **** about languages right around the time I started seeing myself as a professional software developer.

that's basically a rule of thumb otherwise you'll have a hard time finding work. Although I wouldn't ever delve into binary language, had to learn it briefly as a class during university, I was like:

Even when one of my professors asked me to make a paper on "application of quaternions for 3d simulations" to excuse my class absenses (I would skip classes constantly despite having top grades - I also think he was trying to prove a point to his students in another university which's the Brazilian MIT equivalent) I haven't felt as much pain as I do when I need to actually code. I am well versed into logic and theory, but I hate actually going for the practical applications. I met a few ppl with computer sciences degrees who are like me, most abandonned the field, some stuck to it suffering through a quasi-masoquist professional career, can't imagine they are happy with their craft...

in the end this was an ultimately useless argument about absolutely nothing relevant at all, sorry for that...

Because half of your posts are just you boasting or making sweeping statements about coding that prove you don't have any real experience with it. You say "this would be easy!!" to things that are actually quite difficult, and "only a god tier coder could do this" to things that are standard knowledge to most game devs.

I am a "random person" and I learned C++ in a few weeks in 2020. So what, even my grandmother could probably learn C++ if she wanted. I had zero contextual knowledge or experience back then, and no way to apply it to anything other than number crunching or string parsing. Until you've actually done practical coding to make something, you can't talk about it with any credibility. Saying "I suck at coding and avoid it at all costs", while i respect your honesty, is incongruous with the amount of time you spend talking about how the Bannerlord coders are all lazy and suck and need to change their methods.

didn't get it, I never actually went for anyone's throat, I made a few criticisms towards bad design decisions (creative level not technical level) when I say something about the technical level on application of features, experience does make a considerable difference because of classic copy&paste or ready libraries that I may not know of. Cost of not even touching the tools for over a decade does that, doesn't impede me from slinging back into it, the transparency's still there and I'm not boasting about anything I didn't actually do, I can back up everything I said with physical proof, PM me and we can even meet in person, I'll not spend a dime to do it so you'd probably have to come to me

I had to code a few times, when making mods (deleted any recollection of it) I did a lot when a kid (also can't remember much), during university papers and practical exams, during times where I had to fill gaps. When I did delve very little creating mods for a few games, but absolutely nothing was advanced that required me to study or get back into it for real. So in one thing you ain't wrong: I don't have practical experience, at least not anymore. - the most blunt of it, which I have to admit, is that whenever if ever getting back to it to create specific mods, I'd probably fall flat on my face multiple times and get some happy discoveries about unknwon shortcuts.

 

[Grank]

tying

*trying

strawmen arguments

*strawman

interpratation

*interpretation

You know, if you were a coder, you wouldn't have made these silly typos. Besides, I wasn't picking a fight with you. I only joked about your credibility. You were the one going bonkers over it.

binary language

lol

 

[xdj1nn]

lol

we had to do some short program under it because the professor believed it was necessary to understand it - still don't really know how that would be necessary, but there were we...

*trying

*strawman

*interpretation

You know, if you were a coder, you wouldn't have made these silly typos. Besides, I wasn't picking a fight with you. I only joked about your credibility. You were the one going bonkers over it.

You seem to have a very limited vision of the world mate - the typos are normal to me whenever I'm writing fast due to neuroatypiical congenital differences... In this day and age what you did would lend you some ridiculous twitter backlash because "minorities" - since I ain't like that I won't even bother explaining it, but it's a very silly remark (also, my keyboard's crap and sometimes will repeat letters like up there in the "neuroatypiical")

 

[Stefmon]

Don't you see, this is Taleworlds plan all along!? They just want us to turn on each other! Don't do it!
But I have to say if one is not a professional in a field, commenting on that field seems hard to justify.
I'm a professional 3d games artist, and if someone on here, no matter how many hours they spent on the forum, starts talking about how easy/hard simple/complex working on game assets is or implementing new models and animations is, i'd wonder where that assumption came from too. I've often commented that unless you work there (TW) it's hard to know what's really going on.

 

[xdj1nn]

Don't you see, this is Taleworlds plan all along!? They just want us to turn on each other! Don't do it!
But I have to say if one is not a professional in a field, commenting on that field seems hard to justify.
I'm a professional 3d games artist, and if someone on here, no matter how many hours they spent on the forum, starts talking about how easy/hard simple/complex working on game assets is or implementing new models and animations is, i'd wonder where that assumption came from too. I've often commented that unless you work there (TW) it's hard to know what's really going on.

clipping's a nightmare to deal with for video game assets depending on what you are trying to achieve
organic rigging can be problematic
organic meshes often go haywire and break for no logical reason depending on software which we can only see once it's been rendered
doing basic shapes' easy as pie - stuff like a bo staff, or a inflatable boat because of software automation - all you need is a plugin to export it properly for X or Y engine/software.
wrapping textures can be problematic depending on how the game reads the 2d files and how the engine's spherical projection works, which becomes easier to deal with once the person has practice, or the engine provides a plugin along with it that automates the process

that's the thing about game development degree in college: we have to learn everything and are given the opportunity to pick and choose. I was always more leaning towards creative work like narratives, screenwriting, game design etc... The oddity that makes me unique's that I am more logical than artists and more artist than programmers. I somewhat live in the in-between of both. As for coding and programming in general what @guiskj said basically nails it - although not all would understand the implied statement in there, it's the equivalent of a 3d artist sticking to single software or doing any of them - each time we switch we gotta re-learn some basics because things work differently, if we're lucky we have more extensive UI control and can mimic what we are used to, but that's not always truth, if you know the theory you'll manage, if you don't you gonna get stuck (like knowing how to work meshes by hand instead of using automation) - for coding's knowing libraries and being familiar with the language - if you aren't you'll have to learn those on the fly or you'll basically do pure math through logical understanding instead of using a ready mathematical formula for the equation.

 

[Stefmon]

that's the thing about game development degree in college: we have to learn everything and are given the opportunity to pick and choose.

Alright let me put it this way -
I also did a games degree, specifically a game art degree. I've taught on a university games degree as a lecturer. Doing the degree and trying everything doesn't give you the credibility to criticize or make statements about areas which are not your profession. If you were talking about narrative in games and storytelling, I wouldn't have anything to say because I don't know enough to make any arguments. But if you say you are not a programmer or an artists then you do not have credibility in those areas and can't give reliable insights.
Game degrees that let you do both art and programming and narrative and game design, I believe, do not allow the needed specialization for students to develop quickly enough by time of graduation. Mine was a specialized art course in which we further specialized. Even then students would graduate and need to polish their skills much further before getting their first job. Artists finishing art courses as character artists would find commenting on the production processes of studios difficult if they hadn't worked there yet.

So the others' reaction to you stating that you are not in-fact a professional programmer after apparently having been quite critical of bannerlord in a programming sense is totally justified.

I'm not going to comment on the random you listed about game art, all I'll say is that they are not informed.
Stick to your specialism as that is where you can genuinely offer insight and value. No offence meant.

 

[xdj1nn]

I'm not going to comment on the random you listed about game art, all I'll say is that they are not informed.
Stick to your specialism as that is where you can genuinely offer insight and value. No offence meant.

That's odd to read, I understand wanting to be overzealous about your work, but that has way more to do with your emotions than me being wrong on my quick given examples. I simply gave a quick rundown of common issues I have personally faced when working with 3d - which I did for a couple years. That makes your statement a tad hostile on a personal level...
Interestingly, in my country it's common for uneducated ppl to go full DIY and start working careers out of 3d art and 2d art - the main difference between them and educated professionals' theory and depth of knowledge, which allows the educated ones to operate under any storm while the uneducated ones will hit blocks or take eons longer to achieve the same levels of efficiency and quality, sometimes even limited to specific softwares because they only know how to operate but fail to understand the principles that would allow them to use any tools. - programming from my pov isn't far off, which's the entire point of my incessant argument with the other guys.

So the others' reaction to you stating that you are not in-fact a professional programmer after apparently having been quite critical of bannerlord in a programming sense is totally justified.

Again, I would like to see where I did this infamous supposed criticism that I couldn't make - I'll either be rightfully wrong / be able to explain how that is totally unrelated to being a programmer / or I simply didn't do that. - Hard part here is knowing how tf ppl interpreted whatever I said. I generally stick to it unless I made a grievous unforgivable mistake by relying on assumptions. Which I don't think I did any of that recently, at least not in a level that would cause such a fuss. What I think happened is that I might have stung some of these ppl with my annoying callous way of expressing myself online, as I said, I'm highly logical and don't like to waste time caring for stranger's feelings, specially if I'm not even seeing their faces - so I'm objective and honest about what I think, spill it and forget it.

 

[Stefmon]

Hey i'm a novice, I just made the account to comment about smithing and like I said, no offence is meant.

 

[xdj1nn]

Hey i'm a novice, I just made the account to comment about smithing and like I said, no offence is meant.

None taken, there's a reason why I'm often facing keyboard gangs, and it's entirely my fault yet I don't care enough to change my odd habits of expressing myself online. Even when discussing my own craft talking about set in stone facts I'll often be hostilized because of the way I put things. Tad of mockery, a little bit of sarcasm, aggressive statements, doing octopus pin-pinpointing... I'd probably still manage to gather online hate by correcting someone on "1+1 = 2"
I think I enjoy the conflict, usually happens only when I'm bored though - when I'm busy I don't even show face online at all.

 

[Brano]

It's just a game. Simple, naive, nonsensical... exactly what I need to run away from realities of nowdays

 

[Grank]

I'd probably still manage to gather online hate by correcting someone on "1+1 = 2"

Considering the fact that simply pointing out your typos made you angry enough to conjure up excuses, yeah it probably would.

In case you haven't caught on, we're telling you to stop being an arrogant snob. It's not a good behavior even for those who have the skills like James and I, let alone someone skilless like you. All your yappings have told us how little you actually know about the topics at hand.

Here's a tip that might be helpful in saving yourself some embarrassment. Just because someone doesn't talk about their background, education or work experience, it doesn't mean they lack them.

 

[eddiemccandless]

the MERUMP / TREDICI

Hey that's the current Italian government how did you know

Also, everyone can code if they want it badly enough, and I will throw in that everyone can do anything that does not require physical prowess if they want it bad enough and they have enough time and resources to dedicate themselves to it. It's a bit more complicated when it comes to physical feats because you can't say lift an elephant with your little finger no matter how hard you train. There are limits to the mental domains too but they are way larger.

Also, congratulations TW. I had a lot of goodwill for you and you somehow managed to burn it all away. @MostBlunted this one goes out to you (I remember our interactions in the early days of this debacle and man, you were right and I was wrong. Not afraid to admit that.).

 

[skoonting]

Well, some of my questions are answered..

TaleWorlds Reviews: What Is It Like to Work At TaleWorlds?

28 TaleWorlds reviews. A free inside look at company reviews and salaries posted anonymously by employees.

www.glassdoor.co.uk

The 2019 review is pretty scathing, and seems to make a lot of sense given the current state of the game. Also:
"Advice to Management:
None since they won't listen to"
lmao