Need More Info Always at war

[spacecaose]

Summary: Playing as the empire, and we're always at war. With the new system the AI always tries to peace out when it's fighting more then 2 wars at the same time. I'd be at war with brattiana, then a month or so in valanida will attack us, meaning we're forced to pay out because the ai doesn't want to be in 2 wars. Which forces us to get rolled. Then another empire will attack to us meaning you're forced to peace out with the others. This just goes full circle.
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Have you used cheats and if so which: nope
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[MArdA TaleWorlds]

Do you have a save file of session that you experienced this issue? With your save file, we can reproduce the issue much easier and faster. You can find your save file here:C:\Users\username\Documents\Mount and Blade II Bannerlord\Game Saves
You can send your save files to us via the ticketing system on the website. To send us a ticket, please visit the www.taleworlds.com site and login to your forum account from the top right. Click to "My Account" and then click to "My Open Tickets". You can create a ticket there and include the save file and as well as the forum link of this thread. You can find more info about how to upload files to us with the new ticketing system here. Thanks for reporting and sorry for any inconvenience!

 

[Zorion_no]

Well I've been *****ing about this since plenty of patches ago, and while its gotten bit better - the state of endless wars sadly is how the game is (poor design imo).

Why Marda if I'm being Blunt and rude is asking you for a gamefile is beyond me, as there is so many topics on this issue already, and if he'd wanted files of this he could have asked us there.
Basically it seems to be some sort of anti-snowballing mechanics at play, so when your kingdome gets "too strong" more will declare war upon you to wear your faction down.
The problem is that the one with the player typically can deal with it even with 3v1 enemy.
And thus you are in endless war, since you may get peace with 1, but then 1 or 2 others declare war.
Basically a chain-letter of war.
Typically this will happend if you look at your kingdomes "power" in the kingdome menu when the overall strentgth peaks over 12000-14000,
Basically you can let all the fiefs warred over fall back, and then the wars will decline and you can have some pockets of peace here and there.

The most efficent way to deal with it is 2 folded
1. play with deaths on, so that more lords die in the field.
2. execute the lords, and you'll be hated, but you will also have less annoying lords harassing/raiding.

Seems like Taleworlds "just dont get it" that the current way of war/peace is really not fun when you get into this messy situation.
Been so much feedback on this topic already.
So yah its not atm a bug unless something in Taleworlds have changed and Marda request the file, this is just bad design choices.
I'd suggest you find mods on Nexus to help this out, as modders have solved this issue long time ago with adding in "fatigue" towards war, so kingdomes will want peace faster etc and not keep on pursuing it.

When your kingdome is winning they will not really want peace, so stay out of it and just let the other lords fail, and do your own thing instead basically.
Also the peace duration of 30 days is a joke, should be 100.
Example in my current play I'm at war with Vlandia for 60thd day.
Aserai declare war upon us.
Battania declare war on us 2 days later.
Western Empire declare war on Vlandia - > we get peace with Vlandia.
So now at war with Aseari + Battania.
Couple of days in - Western Empire siege Sargot, fails it - peace wtih Vlandia.
Western empire then declares war upon Battania - > we get peace with Battania.

Aserai still at war this last for 160 more days, in this time we've also been at war with Vlandia 2 more times and 1 ongoing with Battania aswell.


No one declared war upon Aserai in those 180 days.
2 days after we get peace with Aserai - Khuzait declares war on Aserai and get stomped on..
The decision makeing of the AI to declare war or not is really really bad.
In the 180 days of the war Southern Empire and Khuzait should have declared war on Aserai or even Western Empire.

 

[spacecaose]

Well I've been *****ing about this since plenty of patches ago, and while its gotten bit better - the state of endless wars sadly is how the game is (poor design imo).

Why Marda if I'm being Blunt and rude is asking you for a gamefile is beyond me, as there is so many topics on this issue already, and if he'd wanted files of this he could have asked us there.
Basically it seems to be some sort of anti-snowballing mechanics at play, so when your kingdome gets "too strong" more will declare war upon you to wear your faction down.
The problem is that the one with the player typically can deal with it even with 3v1 enemy.
And thus you are in endless war, since you may get peace with 1, but then 1 or 2 others declare war.
Basically a chain-letter of war.
Typically this will happend if you look at your kingdomes "power" in the kingdome menu when the overall strentgth peaks over 12000-14000,
Basically you can let all the fiefs warred over fall back, and then the wars will decline and you can have some pockets of peace here and there.

The most efficent way to deal with it is 2 folded
1. play with deaths on, so that more lords die in the field.
2. execute the lords, and you'll be hated, but you will also have less annoying lords harassing/raiding.

Seems like Taleworlds "just dont get it" that the current way of war/peace is really not fun when you get into this messy situation.
Been so much feedback on this topic already.
So yah its not atm a bug unless something in Taleworlds have changed and Marda request the file, this is just bad design choices.
I'd suggest you find mods on Nexus to help this out, as modders have solved this issue long time ago with adding in "fatigue" towards war, so kingdomes will want peace faster etc and not keep on pursuing it.

When your kingdome is winning they will not really want peace, so stay out of it and just let the other lords fail, and do your own thing instead basically.
Also the peace duration of 30 days is a joke, should be 100.
Example in my current play I'm at war with Vlandia for 60thd day.
Aserai declare war upon us.
Battania declare war on us 2 days later.
Western Empire declare war on Vlandia - > we get peace with Vlandia.
So now at war with Aseari + Battania.
Couple of days in - Western Empire siege Sargot, fails it - peace wtih Vlandia.
Western empire then declares war upon Battania - > we get peace with Battania.

Aserai still at war this last for 160 more days, in this time we've also been at war with Vlandia 2 more times and 1 ongoing with Battania aswell.


No one declared war upon Aserai in those 180 days.
2 days after we get peace with Aserai - Khuzait declares war on Aserai and get stomped on..
The decision makeing of the AI to declare war or not is really really bad.
In the 180 days of the war Southern Empire and Khuzait should have declared war on Aserai or even Western Empire.

I have no problem being at war, i managed to finish warband 3 time's without cheating. But it get's to the point were, i can't even go home to sort out my castle without having to trek back to stop the ai from getting abused. My method as always been trying to get an elite army, but it's never worth since it takes for ever to re-recruit and level up units, esp when you have to travel half the map to do so. I love the fighting but sometimes it' just get super boring, when there is legit nothing to do other then fews days of peace then back to waring.

 

[Zorion_no]

I have no problem being at war, i managed to finish warband 3 time's without cheating. But it get's to the point were, i can't even go home to sort out my castle without having to trek back to stop the ai from getting abused. My method as always been trying to get an elite army, but it's never worth since it takes for ever to re-recruit and level up units, esp when you have to travel half the map to do so. I love the fighting but sometimes it' just get super boring, when there is legit nothing to do other then fews days of peace then back to waring.

I'm all for war and all that, but atm when you have 30 years of constant war and by then you have defeated all the other factions - still at war, but they just raid etc and only have the "kings clan" + merc clans.. it just gets bad in terms of "why even have a legacy in the game".

Imo the problem seems to go haywire when I join the faction, before then as just a merc war/peace is generally much better.
Soon as I join then its eternal warfare with maybe some small spots of peace when I just tank my influence proposing peace over and over until thye cant oppose it.

The game needs to add in like modders have done - a fatigue system so that kingdomes are more prone to wanting war even when they "are winning".

the problem for me is that the AI never declares war on the enemy I'm fighitng but keep on pushing for war against the kingdome I'm part of.
Granted a few of them at this point "got no one else to declare war upon".

I just find the system of needing to have multiple enemies at war with us to get peace with 1 of them to be a very very bad design.
Most likely its something with my gamestyle that dont fit their design, but judgeing by other threads etc I seem to not be alone on this.

Like if I wanted constant war I could just go into skirmish mode instead..

The whole sandbox and legacy system is lost due to endless war.
While I'm a purist until the game is released and thus dont use mods, I'm kind of sad that the devs seem to be so oblivious to this issue thats pretty much been since it was made available to play back in time.

Why not give us like it was in Warband when you got tired of wars - a quest to achive it, or inicite war if you arent content with the amount of it.
Generally speaking I have yet to have had any issues getting a vote for War through whenever I wanted to spice things up, but getting peace its 0%.

That said thye should let us have an option to disable Merc-clans as those are very much responsible for the issue or overall clans tied to a faction is the thing that breaks the balance from my observations.
Cap it to max 2 merc clans they can hire and things would be better.

I notice that my faction stops hireing merc clans, but the others employ all of them.

Example we are at war with Western Empire, they try to siege 2 of our holdings with their 2 substantial 1,2k armies.
However we had defenders in castle + fairly big armies on our own.
This defeat lead to directly after them wanting peace 20% and paying us tribute of 960 denar a day.
However if I tried to vote that - it was of course me and 1 lord and even if I spend full influence and the other guy its not enough as the others fork out max + alot of medium etc and they are so many more no to peace.
Few days later Western Empire now have hired 3 merc clans.
Now the desire for peace is 0% and we're to pay them 2k denars.
We fight them of more and more and more they hire more mercs, now they demand 6k..
Even if all the mercs are imprisoned(in total 48 lors are now in our dungeons..)
This is an issue imo, that the factions dont account for imprisoned lords enough in their desire or lack of it for peace.
Dont get me wrong I wouldnt want to have peace with them for 6k denar a day tbh myself, the whole tribute system "dont make sense" or not enough.
The reason it is they demanding is cause they employ merc companies and even if they arent on the field due to being in dungeons they are like 1200-1600 in favor to the other kingdome in terms of the tribute.

Something is imo really of in this game though for some of us players, but we're pretty much met with a wall of silence.
Just tanks the fun when your at constant war all the time.
No time to put in a new thing to build for your fief, or clear out hideouts etc
Yes we can stay out of the battle, but the AI is so dumb that progress is wiped out too fast, or they win more and keep on wanting war.

I dont know what specifically but this feels like the issues, and I'm sorry for ranting but this is the basically the only thing that I find utterly frustrating and by the year 10 typically I just give up and start a new game, as I just think the game gets so stale when there is only war (didnt think this was Wh40k )

 

[spacecaose]

I'm all for war and all that, but atm when you have 30 years of constant war and by then you have defeated all the other factions - still at war, but they just raid etc and only have the "kings clan" + merc clans.. it just gets bad in terms of "why even have a legacy in the game".

Imo the problem seems to go haywire when I join the faction, before then as just a merc war/peace is generally much better.
Soon as I join then its eternal warfare with maybe some small spots of peace when I just tank my influence proposing peace over and over until thye cant oppose it.

The game needs to add in like modders have done - a fatigue system so that kingdomes are more prone to wanting war even when they "are winning".

the problem for me is that the AI never declares war on the enemy I'm fighitng but keep on pushing for war against the kingdome I'm part of.
Granted a few of them at this point "got no one else to declare war upon".

I just find the system of needing to have multiple enemies at war with us to get peace with 1 of them to be a very very bad design.
Most likely its something with my gamestyle that dont fit their design, but judgeing by other threads etc I seem to not be alone on this.

Like if I wanted constant war I could just go into skirmish mode instead..

The whole sandbox and legacy system is lost due to endless war.
While I'm a purist until the game is released and thus dont use mods, I'm kind of sad that the devs seem to be so oblivious to this issue thats pretty much been since it was made available to play back in time.

Why not give us like it was in Warband when you got tired of wars - a quest to achive it, or inicite war if you arent content with the amount of it.
Generally speaking I have yet to have had any issues getting a vote for War through whenever I wanted to spice things up, but getting peace its 0%.

That said thye should let us have an option to disable Merc-clans as those are very much responsible for the issue or overall clans tied to a faction is the thing that breaks the balance from my observations.
Cap it to max 2 merc clans they can hire and things would be better.

I notice that my faction stops hireing merc clans, but the others employ all of them.

Example we are at war with Western Empire, they try to siege 2 of our holdings with their 2 substantial 1,2k armies.
However we had defenders in castle + fairly big armies on our own.
This defeat lead to directly after them wanting peace 20% and paying us tribute of 960 denar a day.
However if I tried to vote that - it was of course me and 1 lord and even if I spend full influence and the other guy its not enough as the others fork out max + alot of medium etc and they are so many more no to peace.
Few days later Western Empire now have hired 3 merc clans.
Now the desire for peace is 0% and we're to pay them 2k denars.
We fight them of more and more and more they hire more mercs, now they demand 6k..
Even if all the mercs are imprisoned(in total 48 lors are now in our dungeons..)
This is an issue imo, that the factions dont account for imprisoned lords enough in their desire or lack of it for peace.
Dont get me wrong I wouldnt want to have peace with them for 6k denar a day tbh myself, the whole tribute system "dont make sense" or not enough.
The reason it is they demanding is cause they employ merc companies and even if they arent on the field due to being in dungeons they are like 1200-1600 in favor to the other kingdome in terms of the tribute.

Something is imo really of in this game though for some of us players, but we're pretty much met with a wall of silence.
Just tanks the fun when your at constant war all the time.
No time to put in a new thing to build for your fief, or clear out hideouts etc
Yes we can stay out of the battle, but the AI is so dumb that progress is wiped out too fast, or they win more and keep on wanting war.

I dont know what specifically but this feels like the issues, and I'm sorry for ranting but this is the basically the only thing that I find utterly frustrating and by the year 10 typically I just give up and start a new game, as I just think the game gets so stale when there is only war (didnt think this was Wh40k )

The problem this game has, it's like every other game. It has player bias, so what ever faction you join you're gonna be at war a lot of the time. With the right army i can easy destroy armies way bigger then me. Also it's true every merk will join the apposing faction, i've managed to imprison pretty much most lords and yet they still find armies some how, it isn't fun watching every merk on one team.

Like you said imprisoning lords doesn't offer a big enough % when fighting for the AI to opt into peace, and executing them isn't really a way forward. Also doesn't the help the new peace system is so abusable and boring. War starts, i take a major city within a the first few days, AI runs over to reclaim it, they get attacked by another faction, forcing them to peace out giving me like 2k in tribute and free city. It needs to be fixed.

 

[Zorion_no]

The problem this game has, it's like every other game. It has player bias, so what ever faction you join you're gonna be at war a lot of the time. With the right army i can easy destroy armies way bigger then me. Also it's true every merk will join the apposing faction, i've managed to imprison pretty much most lords and yet they still find armies some how, it isn't fun watching every merk on one team.

Like you said imprisoning lords doesn't offer a big enough % when fighting for the AI to opt into peace, and executing them isn't really a way forward. Also doesn't the help the new peace system is so abusable and boring. War starts, i take a major city within a the first few days, AI runs over to reclaim it, they get attacked by another faction, forcing them to peace out giving me like 2k in tribute and free city. It needs to be fixed.

Yah the problem in part is most likely I have to low challenge vs what my skill is etc, so basically I dont have an issue with defeating the enemies.

But I just find it frustrating to never have peace once you "get to that point" typically in the plays its in at Kingdome overall power lvl at 12-14k when you reach that you'll be locked in war forever after, unless you loose alot of power and then it changes, but thats kind of frustrating to let the kingdome burn down, just to get more peace..?
Something is of in the ways the AI decide war/peace imo or that peace perhaps needs to be longer than the hardcoded 30 days.

I mean I'm at war with 3 kingdomes already and you know that its day 29 and the 4 will declare war on you.
When they do you may get peace with 1 of the 3 or maybe 2 if you are lucky, but you are still at war with 2..

And with the endless supply of fresh troops and the added mercs it just "never cease". Until the whole map is in your hands.

Had the mercs not been there to mess things up tbh - then it would be better, as the AI would be forced for peace quicker or at the very least have an offer that your kingdome may want to consider.
Forking out 6k to a kingdome is loosing badly too us cause they have 13 merc clans hired dont seem right at all..

I think the tribute system also may be part of the issue or how it calculates it(specially since all those mercs etc is in a dungeon..)
Lets take this current war its now day 68 of it and over 25k of their soldiers is dead, we have conquered 2 castles and 4 towns so far and is siegeing 2 castle and 1 town.. yet they want 6k for peace..

Thats like Rome vs the Gauls in France, I dont recall Rome paying tribute to the Gauls when they had conqured it all?
Vercingetorix the king of the Gauls was taken to Rome and paraded and there was plenty of tribute that was also shown that Rome had conqured.

That aside the game is fairly decent in war/peace ratio until you hit that power lvl, then its non-stop warfare.

That said I got several mods tracked on Nexus that I'll apply unless they "fix" this or add abit better mechanics to "force peace" if you the player just get tired of the endless and constant war.

 

[Zorion_no]

Since I gave up this game in its vanilla form and added in some mods.
I've still come to the conclusion(I've also cranked up the difficulty alot vs my normal plays).

Diplomacy mod extends the peace from the vanilla 30 to 100 days - this is actually very good, and can lead to actual downtime with peace.
However still once you reach a certain amount you still will get attacked by more - however you can achive peace in between due to the "fatigue" system in place.
Meaning the faction will want peace when it reaches 100 - so that you dont get endless/chain wars that never ends.

Even with Diplomacy though, I see a fundamental issue with the games mechanics - Merc clans theese actually isnt good for the game is my conclusion.

The problem being that the rest of the kingdomes stops more or less their infighting, cause they cant hire the merc factions - since the one we are locked to is hogging all of them.

Start out war - they are to pay us 1500 denars.
After crushing their 2 siege attempts and getting their lords in dungeons as in vanilla.. they hire 5 mercs.
Now suddenly the tribute calculation is they want 1500 denars from us.
This is the same from my experience in vanilla(unmodded if you arent familar with the term).

As war goes on the more merc clans they hire for their defeats instead of going for peace.

After we've sieged enough of their lands they are forced to peace.
Merc disperse and only then do the other kingdomes wage war upon themselves and not the realm I'm in.

Basically what I'm missing is the mechanics you had in Warband ->
*Causis belli to be able to declare war.
*Peace for peaces sake aka no constant warmongering.
*Merc clans need to bleed the kingdomes dry regardless of their state(being captured etc) - so that the kingdome should consider paying tribute to get peace instead of hireing endless scores of mercs and not get any progress.
*Quest to end wars or incite them.

Maybe a "veto" for peace where the player would chip in for tribute for the kingdomes clans.
Anyways for me some kind of feedaback would be sort of nice, but not needed since mods fixes the issue more or less.
So if you feel frustratino about aspects of the game - dont be a purist is my advice mod the game already and get the experience you want.

 

[spacecaose]

Since I gave up this game in its vanilla form and added in some mods.
I've still come to the conclusion(I've also cranked up the difficulty alot vs my normal plays).

Diplomacy mod extends the peace from the vanilla 30 to 100 days - this is actually very good, and can lead to actual downtime with peace.
However still once you reach a certain amount you still will get attacked by more - however you can achive peace in between due to the "fatigue" system in place.
Meaning the faction will want peace when it reaches 100 - so that you dont get endless/chain wars that never ends.

Even with Diplomacy though, I see a fundamental issue with the games mechanics - Merc clans theese actually isnt good for the game is my conclusion.

The problem being that the rest of the kingdomes stops more or less their infighting, cause they cant hire the merc factions - since the one we are locked to is hogging all of them.

Start out war - they are to pay us 1500 denars.
After crushing their 2 siege attempts and getting their lords in dungeons as in vanilla.. they hire 5 mercs.
Now suddenly the tribute calculation is they want 1500 denars from us.
This is the same from my experience in vanilla(unmodded if you arent familar with the term).

As war goes on the more merc clans they hire for their defeats instead of going for peace.

After we've sieged enough of their lands they are forced to peace.
Merc disperse and only then do the other kingdomes wage war upon themselves and not the realm I'm in.

Basically what I'm missing is the mechanics you had in Warband ->
*Causis belli to be able to declare war.
*Peace for peaces sake aka no constant warmongering.
*Merc clans need to bleed the kingdomes dry regardless of their state(being captured etc) - so that the kingdome should consider paying tribute to get peace instead of hireing endless scores of mercs and not get any progress.
*Quest to end wars or incite them.

Maybe a "veto" for peace where the player would chip in for tribute for the kingdomes clans.
Anyways for me some kind of feedaback would be sort of nice, but not needed since mods fixes the issue more or less.
So if you feel frustratino about aspects of the game - dont be a purist is my advice mod the game already and get the experience you want.

The thing is the AI has nothing to do outside of war, same as the player. Things to do in peace time, Re-raise the men you lost, afk in your city until the next war starts. That's the cycle we currently have, which make's everything boring. I love the fighting, always have always will, but after like 300+ hours it's gets extremely boring and having to run up and down your whole kingdom every time you're getting attacked is just annoying since the ai doesn't really have the knowledge on what it should be attacking and what needs defending.