SP - General The Big Problem with Combat -- Unit collision and mass [FIX / SUGGESTION]

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Csatádi said:
So this is why they move and fight like sardines in a can.
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That's right, and hey, don't forget the wild jittering.
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I really hope TM that patch 1.7.2 is taking that long in order to fix this problem... I do really hope...

Edit: as a pretty bad skilled modder, I belive that the problem remains on ally troops pushing each other. Is there any way to turn that off from the ".xml" files? I believe that somebody would have done it and that's why we don't have it. If it is hardcoded, don't do Devs have the tool to turn it off as it was seen on 2016? Maybe a setting to turn it off just to see how the game performs I don't really know.
 
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ezkia29 said:
I really hope TM that patch 1.7.2 is taking that long in order to fix this problem... I do really hope...

Edit: as a pretty bad skilled modder, I belive that the problem remains on ally troops pushing each other. Is there any way to turn that off from the ".xml" files? I believe that somebody would have done it and that's why we don't have it. If it is hardcoded, don't do Devs have the tool to turn it off as it was seen on 2016? Maybe a setting to turn it off just to see how the game performs I don't really know.
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At this stage of the game it is illusory to think of hypothetical feature additions for Native beyond what we find here, sadly. That said, there are fundamental issues... things so basic that Taleworlds cannot delegate to the modding community; issues from what we are dealing with here, through ai, damage/protection formula...etc to stability on MP servers, optimisation... etc (a long etc).

While it is true that the guys from RBM have managed to minimize (but still perceptible shaking friction) the effect of jittering by adjusting capsule colliders and "telling the bot" not to push "so much" through code; it is only of mandatory urgency that Taleworlds and no other fixes this problem comprehensively as it is a basic and primal problem that affects the core of the Native game itself.

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Terco_Viejo said:
At this stage of the game it is illusory to think of hypothetical feature additions for Native beyond what we find here, sadly. That said, there are fundamental issues... things so basic that Taleworlds cannot delegate to the modding community; issues from what we are dealing with here, through ai, damage/protection formula...etc to stability on MP servers, optimisation... etc (a long etc).

While it is true that the guys from RBM have managed to minimize (but still perceptible shaking friction) the effect of jittering by adjusting capsule colliders and "telling the bot" not to push "so much" through code; it is only of mandatory urgency that Taleworlds and no other fixes this problem comprehensively as it is a basic and primal problem that affects the core of the Native game itself.

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I just don't understand how is it possible to have a problem like that 2 years after release when it has been working well on 2016... I can't understand...
 
I have been playing Warband this last week and I reasure this is a big problem that must be fixed in Bannerlord, Warband big melee fights feel great, how is it posible to have missed this part on Bannerlord? Feelsbadman.
 
Lord Ferdinand said:
What? The problems of Bannerlord are exaclty due to the Warband "heritage".
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Im talking about the problem explained on this post. You have two videos, one from 2016 and an actual one of Bannerlord, go try Warband's custom battle and tell me that unit body collision and mass is exactly the same as it is right now on Bannerlord and that melee fights on Warband were that weird. They of course didn't look beautiful with good animation and graphics, but the melee was pretty clean.
 
The issue comes from the collision resolving code - if we "smoothen" it too much then that allows agents to pass through walls and other objects. That's why we made the resolving code "harder" (Gamescom 2016 video gameplay vs now). Think of it as a tradeoff between the smoothness of collision resolution and the strictness of clipping into something. It's possible to resolve this tradeoff but at the cost of performance in sieges. We have made some improvements on the AI agent movement though which should aid with the "jittering" issue and you can expect those with a future patch. Overall, I can say that we're still working on this issue both from the physics and the AI perspectives.
 
Dejan said:
The issue comes from the collision resolving code - if we "smoothen" it too much then that allows agents to pass through walls and other objects. That's why we made the resolving code "harder" (Gamescom 2016 video gameplay vs now). Think of it as a tradeoff between the smoothness of collision resolution and the strictness of clipping into something. It's possible to resolve this tradeoff but at the cost of performance in sieges. We have made some improvements on the AI agent movement though which should aid with the "jittering" issue and you can expect those with a future patch. Overall, I can say that we're still working on this issue both from the physics and the AI perspectives.
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Excellent to hear both the reasoning behind this and that progress is in action!
 
Dejan said:
The issue comes from the collision resolving code - if we "smoothen" it too much then that allows agents to pass through walls and other objects. That's why we made the resolving code "harder" (Gamescom 2016 video gameplay vs now). Think of it as a tradeoff between the smoothness of collision resolution and the strictness of clipping into something. It's possible to resolve this tradeoff but at the cost of performance in sieges. We have made some improvements on the AI agent movement though which should aid with the "jittering" issue and you can expect those with a future patch. Overall, I can say that we're still working on this issue both from the physics and the AI perspectives.
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I'm scared but it is really nice to read that you are working on that, thank you very much for the information!
 
ezkia29 said:
I'm scared but it is really nice to read that you are working on that, thank you very much for the information!
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For the moment I'm going to remain a bit sceptical too, however I did appreciate reading this kind of expanded information... especially when Dejan says "Overall, I can say that we're still working on this issue both from the physics and the AI perspectives."
 
Dejan said:
The issue comes from the collision resolving code - if we "smoothen" it too much then that allows agents to pass through walls and other objects. That's why we made the resolving code "harder" (Gamescom 2016 video gameplay vs now). Think of it as a tradeoff between the smoothness of collision resolution and the strictness of clipping into something. It's possible to resolve this tradeoff but at the cost of performance in sieges. We have made some improvements on the AI agent movement though which should aid with the "jittering" issue and you can expect those with a future patch. Overall, I can say that we're still working on this issue both from the physics and the AI perspectives.
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Isn't possible to set a minimum distance (variable) between the soldiers when they fight? At least in open field.
 
I don't think this problem would be resolved by adjusting the physical parameters like minimum distance etc. I think this is a AI problem. For example in the RBM soldiers don't jiggle and wobble because they don't get close in the first place.
 
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