SirLosealot
Recruit
Hello everyone. I am new here. Used to play M&B back in the days. Played Bannerlord recently and jumped straight to custom battle to check out the combat. Still feels good playing as the cavalry. However, I notice melee infantry, especially pike/spear infantry do not work well as anti-calvary as they should be. In fact, they almost do not work at all.
I did some tests in custom battle. 2 armies with the same amount of troops (100 in my case). One army had full cavalry ( I tested the best cavalry of each faction). The other had infantry that can brace spears/pikes ( I tested oathsworn and pikemen). I noticed line formation was best in terms of kill because the pikemen could kill many horsemen at the first charge. However, it was all down hill for the pikemen from there. The remaining cavalry went straight through the formation, making the pikemen to lose the stance and start normal thrust attacks which, in my opinion, is one of the problems.
Thrust attacks are slow, regardless of weapons. You would think while pointing a pointy object (sword or spear) at someone, the quickest attack to make would be a thrust. But this is not the case. I can see that the character's animation was trying to do a strong thrust (elbows move back a lot). But quick thrust exists, I believe. So my suggestion: Meet in the middle ground of both types of thrust by increasing the speed of thrusting animation a little bit and maybe reduce the damage of it a little bit. A medium speed thrust, if you will.
As for the bracing stance, I think the stance should not be broken upon contact like the current implementation. The men should be able to move, albeit, slowly while bracing and they can thrust while doing so. I mean, the Macedonian phalanx could move and thrust, couldn't they? It is strange to see the pike formation turned into a mosh pit just right after the first charge. Which begs the question: How do you guys deal with cavalry with melee infantry if spear and pike are not effective?
The only solution I can think of and I have seen to be effective is... units with slashing pole arms like Falxmen for example. They had to take more lost in the first charge compared to pikemen. But after that, when the formation turned into a mosh pit, they killed cavalry much more effective than thrusting spears and pikes. And come to think about it, I myself do not use thrust attack that much compare to slash attack even with swords.
I think the problem is the thrust attack, it is not as effective as slash attack imo. Thrust is harder to aim, easier to block compared to slash. So slash attack rewards both the player and the AI more than thrust. Units with slashing pole arms do better than thrusting ones.
So am I doing something wrong with spear and pike formation here or does thrust attack (regardless of weapons) need a buff? Could anyone help me on how to use pikemen effectively?
P/S: Sorry for my English.
I did some tests in custom battle. 2 armies with the same amount of troops (100 in my case). One army had full cavalry ( I tested the best cavalry of each faction). The other had infantry that can brace spears/pikes ( I tested oathsworn and pikemen). I noticed line formation was best in terms of kill because the pikemen could kill many horsemen at the first charge. However, it was all down hill for the pikemen from there. The remaining cavalry went straight through the formation, making the pikemen to lose the stance and start normal thrust attacks which, in my opinion, is one of the problems.
Thrust attacks are slow, regardless of weapons. You would think while pointing a pointy object (sword or spear) at someone, the quickest attack to make would be a thrust. But this is not the case. I can see that the character's animation was trying to do a strong thrust (elbows move back a lot). But quick thrust exists, I believe. So my suggestion: Meet in the middle ground of both types of thrust by increasing the speed of thrusting animation a little bit and maybe reduce the damage of it a little bit. A medium speed thrust, if you will.
As for the bracing stance, I think the stance should not be broken upon contact like the current implementation. The men should be able to move, albeit, slowly while bracing and they can thrust while doing so. I mean, the Macedonian phalanx could move and thrust, couldn't they? It is strange to see the pike formation turned into a mosh pit just right after the first charge. Which begs the question: How do you guys deal with cavalry with melee infantry if spear and pike are not effective?
The only solution I can think of and I have seen to be effective is... units with slashing pole arms like Falxmen for example. They had to take more lost in the first charge compared to pikemen. But after that, when the formation turned into a mosh pit, they killed cavalry much more effective than thrusting spears and pikes. And come to think about it, I myself do not use thrust attack that much compare to slash attack even with swords.
I think the problem is the thrust attack, it is not as effective as slash attack imo. Thrust is harder to aim, easier to block compared to slash. So slash attack rewards both the player and the AI more than thrust. Units with slashing pole arms do better than thrusting ones.
So am I doing something wrong with spear and pike formation here or does thrust attack (regardless of weapons) need a buff? Could anyone help me on how to use pikemen effectively?
P/S: Sorry for my English.