A.I. World Map 'Pathing' - Possible to Mod / Improve?

[stevepine]

I was thinking... the way that AI groups and armies move around the map has always been a little bit ridiculous.

This has been the same ever since Warband I know. Units kind of act like flies - moving erratically back and forward. You know what I mean, I'm sure.

Sometimes you just ignore it ... but it feels really silly on some occasions. Let me give the obvious example - when you have a large army sieging a castle and a smaller enemy army charges right up to you ... then 'sees' the size of your force and runs away again. The repeat. Repeat. Back and forth on the map.

It always kind of reminds me of the knights in Monty Python " Attttacccccck!!!!" ...... Two minutes later : " Aaaarrrhhgh Run Awaaaaaaay!!!!"

Again, I know it's always been like this ... in all of the Mount and Blade games .... but is it something that could be changed or modded ? .... to make it feel a little less crazy and random?

Wondered if anyone with modding or coding knowledge has any idea? ( I have a feeling it would be quite difficult but still would be so good to improve).

 

[Askorti]

when you have a large army sieging a castle and a smaller enemy army charges right up to you ... then 'sees' the size of your force and runs away again. The repeat. Repeat. Back and forth on the map.

I dont know if it's because of 1.7 or an earlier update, but this does not seem to happen as much anymore, at least with lord parties. These days those smaller parties just wait around a small distance away from the sieging army, presumably waiting for their own army to arrive and relieve the siege together.

 

[stevepine]

I dont know if it's because of 1.7 or an earlier update, but this does not seem to happen as much anymore, at least with lord parties. These days those smaller parties just wait around a small distance away from the sieging army, presumably waiting for their own army to arrive and relieve the siege together.

That's true actually... It still happens a lot.... but less so around sieges.

I still see it quite a lot when on the move though... rather than when I'm stationary. And also still a lot with bandits.

 

[froggyluv]

Ive written alot of posts about this and its a pretty ignored subject though a few of my gaming buddies ask "Did M&B ever implement a better world map -ya know like with real territories etc?"

The game would move up multiple tier imo if they did this as without it makes the overhead map utterly uninteresting. As in the real world all historical army and battles were determined, effected and planned around things like time of year, nearby terrain factors played paramount into these things. Lull an enemy towards the Plains (if you have lots of cav), the Woods for Ambush, the mountains etc.. Absolutely none of this is in game and makes the world icons look like Sprites hyped up on coffee and ritalin chasing each other to the ends of the earth not caring about borders, roads territories or anything other than their Speed factor.

EndRant/ Im guessing it is possible to graph out the world and limit travel by area as it would seem Mods like the LOTR that would be pretty important to keep designated factions to their area but couldnt say for sure

 

[stevepine]

Ive written alot of posts about this and its a pretty ignored subject though a few of my gaming buddies ask "Did M&B ever implement a better world map -ya know like with real territories etc?"

The game would move up multiple tier imo if they did this as without it makes the overhead map utterly uninteresting. As in the real world all historical army and battles were determined, effected and planned around things like time of year, nearby terrain factors played paramount into these things. Lull an enemy towards the Plains (if you have lots of cav), the Woods for Ambush, the mountains etc.. Absolutely none of this is in game and makes the world icons look like Sprites hyped up on coffee and ritalin chasing each other to the ends of the earth not caring about borders, roads territories or anything other than their Speed factor.

EndRant/ Im guessing it is possible to graph out the world and limit travel by area as it would seem Mods like the LOTR that would be pretty important to keep designated factions to their area but couldnt say for sure

Yes, that would be amazing....

Honestly... even if someone just made an 'ambush mod' then I'm pretty sure it would be one of the most heavily subscribed mods ever in Mount and Blade history.

One of the things I really love about the more recent Total War games is the ambush mechanics.

I wonder if it would possible to mod the new Order of Battle feature to make something like that possible? - Starting a battle with your forces already positioned in the best positions in the 'scene' : your archers already in the woods and waiting..... your cavalry already in position to charge in from the flanks? (Different chance to successfully ambush depending on the type of terrain).

It should be possible.... what do you think?

 

[froggyluv]

Yes, that would be amazing....

Honestly... even if someone just made an 'ambush mod' then I'm pretty sure it would be one of the most heavily subscribed mods ever in Mount and Blade history.

One of the things I really love about the more recent Total War games is the ambush mechanics.

I wonder if it would possible to mod the new Order of Battle feature to make something like that possible? - Starting a battle with your forces already positioned in the best positions in the 'scene' : your archers already in the woods and waiting..... your cavalry already in position to charge in from the flanks? (Different chance to successfully ambush depending on the type of terrain).

It should be possible.... what do you think?

The problem is at least in the base game -all troops know exactly where all enemy troops are at all times -it is really one of the least realistic elements of this game. I can understand early day Mount and Blade, using a knowsAbout value and a real Line of Sight mechanic was probably too expensive CPU wise as well as complicated for the amount of units they are rendering. With todays technology it certainly is doable and would be a game changer imo for this game.

So without that Line of Sight mechanic, the only advantage you'd have according to the above example is one group have the proper orientation against another group they are supposedly flanking. I guess that would be OK but overall not very fulfilling. Just to note if you ever checked out Ruthven's open world Bannerlord mod, he did have a line of sight mechanic (seemingly) as you could see War Parties marching off in the distance totally unaware of other nearby groups.

 

[stevepine]

The problem is at least in the base game -all troops know exactly where all enemy troops are at all times -it is really one of the least realistic elements of this game. I can understand early day Mount and Blade, using a knowsAbout value and a real Line of Sight mechanic was probably too expensive CPU wise as well as complicated for the amount of units they are rendering. With todays technology it certainly is doable and would be a game changer imo for this game.

So without that Line of Sight mechanic, the only advantage you'd have according to the above example is one group have the proper orientation against another group they are supposedly flanking. I guess that would be OK but overall not very fulfilling. Just to note if you ever checked out Ruthven's open world Bannerlord mod, he did have a line of sight mechanic (seemingly) as you could see War Parties marching off in the distance totally unaware of other nearby groups.

Yes, some kind of 'fog of war' feature / mechanic would make the game so much better and deeper

 

[NPC99]

The problem is at least in the base game -all troops know exactly where all enemy troops are at all times -it is really one of the least realistic elements of this game.

@Bloc 's ambush demo avoided this:

However, upon successful ambush, you can attack the enemy army's camp and win even while outnumbered. It opens a normal battleground map. But in this map, unlike normal battle, they will be unaware of your location and intentions. Depending on certain conditions ( crouching, night-time, distance, and visibility ) they can spot you easily on the battlefield or they can see your troops when it's too late. While you are undetected, they won't realize that your troops are in the battlefield and they will continue their disorganized position ( sleeping, playing games, drunk, laying on the ground and scouting etc )

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/ambush-and-camp-mechanic-with-demo.446691/

It's a shame he decided not to mod any longer for Bannerlord as a matter of principle. Great coder who understood gameplay.

 

[froggyluv]

@Bloc 's ambush demo avoided this:

However, upon successful ambush, you can attack the enemy army's camp and win even while outnumbered. It opens a normal battleground map. But in this map, unlike normal battle, they will be unaware of your location and intentions. Depending on certain conditions ( crouching, night-time, distance, and visibility ) they can spot you easily on the battlefield or they can see your troops when it's too late. While you are undetected, they won't realize that your troops are in the battlefield and they will continue their disorganized position ( sleeping, playing games, drunk, laying on the ground and scouting etc )

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/ambush-and-camp-mechanic-with-demo.446691/

It's a shame he decided not to mod any longer for Bannerlord as a matter of principle. Great coder who understood gameplay.

Yeah good point -that guy really was on to something and that looked pretty fleshed out for just a Proof of Concept - refreshing combat. Hopefully some other talented modder picks that up or something similar because i guarantee the Devs have no interest in that sadly.

 

[Death Knell]

I have noticed this too, also clumping of bandits and sea raiders in certain parts of the map in earlier betas (might be fixed now).