The Story Needs a rewrite.

[EverKira]

I have several issues with the story as it is currently written. I don't believe that Istinia or her counterpart would have enough influence/power/money to fund and lead a massive conspiracy. I know that they play far too important a role to be scrapped completely. Issue 2: I don't believe the old emperor's son would just be a part of one of the 3 empires and not leading one of them. Solution: Prescriptions. For those of you who don't know, during the turmoil following Julius Caesar's death Octavian and Marc Anthony used prescriptions to steal large sums of money and kill political enemies. If there has been many years of civil war in an area based on the Roman Empire, then it stands to reason that there were prescriptions at some point. My proposal is that Istinia is a woman whose entire family was wiped out with these prescriptions and she fled the Empire. She would move to Revyl or Askar to be as far from the Empire as possible. She is now the Anti-Empire faction leader. The Neretzes heir would move to the other side of the Revyl/Askar coin and becomes the "Conquer the Empire for me" faction.

Another issue: The three pieces of the Banner quest is kinda hamfisted and bad. First: The only piece that would actually matter is the Banner itself the Pole and Cap wouldn't mean squat. Also the roll credits of "I will call you Bannerlord" is just bad writing. I get that Bannerlord is the name of the game, but you can make it so that a troop of 100 people (or 250 or 500) is a banner in Calradia so that once you hit that number your own men will acclaim you as a Bannerlord. It's a little cringy but not as bad. Instead of the Banner, the main mcguffin can be the crown. Split in half during Neretzes folly, the Jewel a massive diamond was knocked out of the setting and the other two pieces are the ones you have to find. That merchant that you find that gives you the Banner would now give you the Crown Jewel of the Empire. And instead of you not being able to quit the main quest, there's now an option to sell just the Crown Jewel for 250,000 denars and go off in a sandbox with the extra family members from the story.

You could even add in other options like claiming the Crown once it's reforged (if your helping the Neretzes Heir he will pay for the reforging, same with Istinia but if you don't want to work with either you can pay 250,000 to have it reforged or you can do it yourself with 250 Smithing). I would also add in that if you don't sell the Crown Jewel then the longer you hold it without reforging it the more assassins and bandits from everywhere try to ambush you for it.

 

[dannazgu]

I have several issues with the story as it is currently written. I don't believe that Istinia or her counterpart would have enough influence/power/money to fund and lead a massive conspiracy. I know that they play far too important a role to be scrapped completely. Issue 2: I don't believe the old emperor's son would just be a part of one of the 3 empires and not leading one of them. Solution: Prescriptions. For those of you who don't know, during the turmoil following Julius Caesar's death Octavian and Marc Anthony used prescriptions to steal large sums of money and kill political enemies. If there has been many years of civil war in an area based on the Roman Empire, then it stands to reason that there were prescriptions at some point. My proposal is that Istinia is a woman whose entire family was wiped out with these prescriptions and she fled the Empire. She would move to Revyl or Askar to be as far from the Empire as possible. She is now the Anti-Empire faction leader. The Neretzes heir would move to the other side of the Revyl/Askar coin and becomes the "Conquer the Empire for me" faction.

Another issue: The three pieces of the Banner quest is kinda hamfisted and bad. First: The only piece that would actually matter is the Banner itself the Pole and Cap wouldn't mean squat. Also the roll credits of "I will call you Bannerlord" is just bad writing. I get that Bannerlord is the name of the game, but you can make it so that a troop of 100 people (or 250 or 500) is a banner in Calradia so that once you hit that number your own men will acclaim you as a Bannerlord. It's a little cringy but not as bad. Instead of the Banner, the main mcguffin can be the crown. Split in half during Neretzes folly, the Jewel a massive diamond was knocked out of the setting and the other two pieces are the ones you have to find. That merchant that you find that gives you the Banner would now give you the Crown Jewel of the Empire. And instead of you not being able to quit the main quest, there's now an option to sell just the Crown Jewel for 250,000 denars and go off in a sandbox with the extra family members from the story.

You could even add in other options like claiming the Crown once it's reforged (if your helping the Neretzes Heir he will pay for the reforging, same with Istinia but if you don't want to work with either you can pay 250,000 to have it reforged or you can do it yourself with 250 Smithing). I would also add in that if you don't sell the Crown Jewel then the longer you hold it without reforging it the more assassins and bandits from everywhere try to ambush you for it.

To the first point, about the Neretzes Hei, yes and no

If you read all the talks the imperial does are simple: Drusos Neretzes, the old Emperor before Arenicos, disgraced the Empire by loosing not only the campaign (which by the timeline, indicates the empire was in a deep crisis) but also the old Banner of their Hero and Founder. The split on the campaign is due to the indecision of Arenicos Pethros to marry Ira to someone powerful or give her the support for the Empire, or simply choose another heir (probably he hope for a son, soon), the Istiana thing, she was a spymaster, so she had connections and since working directly for the Emperor I'd say access to funds to do her plots as long didn't connect to him, maybe she was the one that easier the way for Arenicos' murder, that I'd love to know about.

That's what I think, the clan Neretzes is disgraced therefore to not face execution or exile as would be the norm (Roman Empire) they gave their support to another in hopes to restore their power one time

But I agree with you, they should elaborate deeper

 

[EverKira]

To the first point, about the Neretzes Hei, yes and no

If you read all the talks the imperial does are simple: Drusos Neretzes, the old Emperor before Arenicos, disgraced the Empire by loosing not only the campaign (which by the timeline, indicates the empire was in a deep crisis) but also the old Banner of their Hero and Founder. The split on the campaign is due to the indecision of Arenicos Pethros to marry Ira to someone powerful or give her the support for the Empire, or simply choose another heir (probably he hope for a son, soon), the Istiana thing, she was a spymaster, so she had connections and since working directly for the Emperor I'd say access to funds to do her plots as long didn't connect to him, maybe she was the one that easier the way for Arenicos' murder, that I'd love to know about.

That's what I think, the clan Neretzes is disgraced therefore to not face execution or exile as would be the norm (Roman Empire) they gave their support to another in hopes to restore their power one time

But I agree with you, they should elaborate deeper

Which Emperor was Istinia a spymaster for? If it was Neretzes the she was a bad spymaster because she failed to uncover the trap plot that led to Neretzes Folly. Really either way she should either still be employed as a spymaster or her successor would have made sure she got an early retirement.

And the current counterpart to Istinia was just a guard. There's no way in hell he could fund or lead a conspiracy from his retirement home in Marunath.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

I don't believe that Istinia or her counterpart would have enough influence/power/money to fund and lead a massive conspiracy.

They got the twitter and the paytreons, don't ask me how......

Octavian and Marc Anthony used prescriptions to steal large sums of money and kill political enemies

ANd nowdays they're used to steal large sums of money over a very long time and don't don't usually kill so that they can keep collecting for the rest of your life.

I get that Bannerlord is the name of the game,

Yeah, I though that Bannerlord was just like "Clan leader" and was referencing that clans are an important mechanic of Bannerlord.

I think if you actually take the whole map in campaign (or even sandbox too?) somebody should show up and present you with the Banner! Or, maybe somebody else took it themselves and created a revolt against you if you make a big faction and didn't get it yourself. Either/both would be cool.

I don't care for the story but I would like to adopt Radagos into my clan ?

 

[KronstadtSailor]

I hate to be that guy. But, it's proscriptions.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

Istinia

I read this as Latina lol

I don't think there should be a main quest at all. The banner ****e should be one story among many that you uncover by talking to lords. Forcing the player to do that when they're still a level 1 andy is one of the silliest things I've ever seen in an intro to a game.

This would free the writer up to make the story a lot more interesting (and more straightforward) because it would be optional. If the developers are really serious about having multiple playthrough styles, there should be different "main quests" for merchant, criminal, bandit or whatever. There is no way to write a single story that makes sense for all of them.

 

[dannazgu]

Which Emperor was Istinia a spymaster for? If it was Neretzes the she was a bad spymaster because she failed to uncover the trap plot that led to Neretzes Folly. Really either way she should either still be employed as a spymaster or her successor would have made sure she got an early retirement.

And the current counterpart to Istinia was just a guard. There's no way in hell he could fund or lead a conspiracy from his retirement home in Marunath.

I think she was sypmaster for both emperors, Drusos and Arenicos, or maybe just Arenicos since her dialogues might only refer to him. But, Idk about the other dude, he could have gone rogue with some others and stole money from warchest, usually (if not in exception) quartermaster travelled with large amount of money with the legions.

Neretzes folly wasn't a plot per se, the guy was too stupid to listen his Legates (generals) so he lost, about the rebellions, that's not uncommon among nobility back them. I think the clan Pethros would be what Romans called Plebeian Aristocracy, he seems to be climbed through the military (Arenicos). You see all the families on the NE are the older families, in Roman World would be Patricians (the old Gens), founders.

The Proscriptions were a "legal" way to strip his enemies of power and wealth, which Octavian and Antony did blantly, even some of their families suffered, but not necessary you need kill someone if that proves unpopular to the rulers. The triumvirs proved that when Lepidus asked to proscribe his brother but give him protection of life... a Lucius Julius Caesar was proscribed as well, but Octavian allowed him to live in comfort in exile on Gaul.

Anyway, Bannerlord on the game I think really only mean, Leader, Lord of Kings, etc; Since the banners would be your vassals. Not that I'm against the Standards of armies and clan (Banners) to show up.

Unlike many ppl, I'm glad TW is trying to introduce Lore on their game, it really adds immersion on the background, they should keep trying, but the do need to make their writer work a lot harder for that

We all know what happens in 200 years though on the timeline (Warband setting), but since they worked a lot more on the map and expanded, probably the Empire now is only a mere small kingdom deep somewhere or it truly falled to the Vlandians to become Swadia.

 

[TengriBless]

The story needs a ****ing delete is what it needs. The story of Mount and Blade has always been about the journey of the player, unscripted, handcrafted with the freedom the world gave you and that's what made it so special to us. I was thinking of writing a longer rant but this discussion has been had nearly two years ago so here, don't waste your time: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/scrap-the-main-story.428722/

Prescriptions. For those of you who don't know, during the turmoil following Julius Caesar's death Octavian and Marc

No Sulla?

The Proscriptions were a "legal" way to strip his enemies of power and wealth, which Octavian and Antony did blantly

Nobody mentions Sulla?

 

[MostBlunted]

There is no reason to scrap the main story because they added the sandbox mode. I also don´t like the main story but I also don´t care because I don´t have to play it

 

[dannazgu]

There is no reason to scrap the main story because they added the sandbox mode. I also don´t like the main story but I also don´t care because I don´t have to play it

well said, dude... those who enjoy follow those who doesn't ignore it

 

[five bucks]

Istiana seems pretty self-explanatory, as she was Arenicos' spymaster. That means that she would have connections among the high ranking people of the Empire. Perhaps she knows secrets about senators and generals which she can use as leverage.

Arzagos is questionable though, for sure. He should be explained as having many Palaic kinsmen who are also angry at the Empire which he can call upon to help him run the conspiracy.

 

[GaMoR]

I hate to be that guy. But, it's proscriptions.

Thank you very much! As non english im happy . Now it make sense

 

[PtitCon]

I have several issues with the story as it is currently written. I don't believe that Istinia or her counterpart would have enough influence/power/money to fund and lead a massive conspiracy. I know that they play far too important a role to be scrapped completely. Issue 2: I don't believe the old emperor's son would just be a part of one of the 3 empires and not leading one of them. Solution: Prescriptions. For those of you who don't know, during the turmoil following Julius Caesar's death Octavian and Marc Anthony used prescriptions to steal large sums of money and kill political enemies. If there has been many years of civil war in an area based on the Roman Empire, then it stands to reason that there were prescriptions at some point. My proposal is that Istinia is a woman whose entire family was wiped out with these prescriptions and she fled the Empire. She would move to Revyl or Askar to be as far from the Empire as possible. She is now the Anti-Empire faction leader. The Neretzes heir would move to the other side of the Revyl/Askar coin and becomes the "Conquer the Empire for me" faction.

Another issue: The three pieces of the Banner quest is kinda hamfisted and bad. First: The only piece that would actually matter is the Banner itself the Pole and Cap wouldn't mean squat. Also the roll credits of "I will call you Bannerlord" is just bad writing. I get that Bannerlord is the name of the game, but you can make it so that a troop of 100 people (or 250 or 500) is a banner in Calradia so that once you hit that number your own men will acclaim you as a Bannerlord. It's a little cringy but not as bad. Instead of the Banner, the main mcguffin can be the crown. Split in half during Neretzes folly, the Jewel a massive diamond was knocked out of the setting and the other two pieces are the ones you have to find. That merchant that you find that gives you the Banner would now give you the Crown Jewel of the Empire. And instead of you not being able to quit the main quest, there's now an option to sell just the Crown Jewel for 250,000 denars and go off in a sandbox with the extra family members from the story.

You could even add in other options like claiming the Crown once it's reforged (if your helping the Neretzes Heir he will pay for the reforging, same with Istinia but if you don't want to work with either you can pay 250,000 to have it reforged or you can do it yourself with 250 Smithing). I would also add in that if you don't sell the Crown Jewel then the longer you hold it without reforging it the more assassins and bandits from everywhere try to ambush you for it.

Nice post. I like your suggestions. The campaign story is so uninteresting that I never really played "campaign" even when Sandbox didn't exist for Bannerlord. I just ignored the story and went on with my playthrough. Didn't seem to need pieces of a banner or whatever to play as I wanted to. A rework of the campaign story would be nice but not necessary as far as I'm concerned as I hardly ever play campaigns.

 

[Count_Morfetico]

I don't think there should be a main quest at all. The banner ****e should be one story among many that you uncover by talking to lords. Forcing the player to do that when they're still a level 1 andy is one of the silliest things I've ever seen in an intro to a game.

Yes.

The story needs a ****ing delete is what it needs.

And yes.

Not gonna lie, the idea of having a story, is kinda of a letdown for me..
As many have already pointed out, the great joy of games like these (sandboxy, free-form, whatevs) is the ability to **** around with the world and mechanics providing for the infinite stories and supporting the expected freedom.
I remember the first time I've joined a claimant in warband... it was really a blast. It doesn't need any epic-wannabe story... Let the epicness happen naturally within the world itself.

(sorry if maybe I don't make any sense, english is not my original language and i'm in a hangover)

 

[EverKira]

Nice post. I like your suggestions. The campaign story is so uninteresting that I never really played "campaign" even when Sandbox didn't exist for Bannerlord. I just ignored the story and went on with my playthrough. Didn't seem to need pieces of a banner or whatever to play as I wanted to. A rework of the campaign story would be nice but not necessary as far as I'm concerned as I hardly ever play campaigns.

That was why I included the option to sell the first piece and just cut out on the main quest.

 

[MostBlunted]

A story can be good for new players who never played Warband before, but NOT this story or better how it´s done in the game.

 

[Doofus]

I like the idea of the story. I just don't like the way its implemented. So much makes no sense...

A) To find all the pieces of the banner you have to prove yourself deceitful (You have to lie to either Istiana or Arzagos to get the hideout for their piece to show up). Since I like to play games as me in a different universe/setting/etc, I don't like being deceitful.
B) If you give the banner to an existing ruler he says its the greatest gift anyone has ever given him....But you gain no benefit from it. You don't gain increased relations with him, his clan, or his kingdom. He doesn't give you a reward for it (money, a unique weapon, a fief, etc). Nothing.
C) If you start your own kingdom you gain no benefit from the banner. As the story is written, it states the belief that the one holding the banner is the true Son of Caladria and the true ruler who should rule all of Caladria. Based on this you would expect many other lords to look to join with your kingdom to be lead by the rightful ruler who will unite all the kingdoms. But I have seen nothing indicating you gain any relations increase with anyone for holding the banner.
D) If you go with Arzagos, against the empire, you get quests that make no sense. Example: You have to stop an Empire Conspiracy Weapons Caravan...But it starts in Vlandia and traverses through Battania and Sturgia then ends in Khuzait. If its an Empire Weapons Caravan, why doesn't it even travel in the empire? Its certainly not delivering weapons to them. Another Caravan in the same situation started in Southern Khuzait and finished in Northern Khuzait...again, never even touching Empire soil. I assume Istiana quests do the same sort of nonsense in the opposite way. The text on Arzagos' messages says we should defeat the raiders and that would 'send a good message, both to our allies and our enemies'. But the game doesn't allow for allies. Its either an incorrect message or poorly phrased, which is common with a lot of things in this game. If you are going to say something like that in the current context of the game, instead of the word 'allies' it should instead either use the word 'subjects' or 'fellow lords of our kingdom'.
E) The conspiracy quests are almost constant. But typically in the game you are warring 2 or 3 kingdoms at a time almost constantly. So you basically have to choose to either help fight in the wars or do nothing but conspiracy quests. As far as I know if you turn the game into doing nothing but conspiracy quests it will just keep giving you more quests. I don't believe that after successfully doing X amount quests it will stop the conspiracy and stop all the empire (or non-empire) kingdoms from attacking you all at once. So it basically accomplishes nothing...except that if you focus exclusively on doing the conspiracy quests your empire will get smaller and smaller because the fellow lords of your kingdom are capable of holding their own against one kingdom warring them, but you always have more than that warring you. So they can't hold the other kingdoms off if you aren't helping. On the other hand, if you basically ignore the conspiracy quests unless they are near you, you can weaken the enemy (empire if you chose Arzagos, non-empire if you chose Istiana) kingdoms and maybe have a chance of succeeding when they all attack you at once. So basically, the way it works is that the game itself is trying to discourage you from doing the conspiracy quests.
F) There's a large penalty for trying to do the Neretzes storyline (As someone more or less said on another thread if you accept the quest everyone and their brother declares war on you if you take the quest). But as far as I can tell, there's no reward for completing the quest. How many games encourage you to take a quest and don't reward you for succeeding? None that I know of. Give me a freakin' reward if I succeed.

I know this game is in Early Access (for how many years?), but you would think if they were going to have a main quest/storyline, getting that right would be one of their first priorities.

 

[froggyluv]

They really need a dramaturge to help them with good Lore and names. Nertezes?? Istiana?? ArgoZoNaught?? None of these names ring a bell in any manner are totally forgettable and just dont feel based in anything. Go look at Pendor if you wanna see how to place a nice interesting Backstory with faction names and Leaders names that I still remember to this day (ShadowMist Rangers anyone.. Qualiis Gems etc...)

 

[Nalgasucia507]

I read this as Latina lol

I don't think there should be a main quest at all. The banner ****e should be one story among many that you uncover by talking to lords. Forcing the player to do that when they're still a level 1 andy is one of the silliest things I've ever seen in an intro to a game.

This would free the writer up to make the story a lot more interesting (and more straightforward) because it would be optional. If the developers are really serious about having multiple playthrough styles, there should be different "main quests" for merchant, criminal, bandit or whatever. There is no way to write a single story that makes sense for all of them.

+1

 

[Mad Vader]

They really need a dramaturge to help them with good Lore and names. Nertezes?? Istiana?? ArgoZoNaught?? None of these names ring a bell in any manner are totally forgettable and just dont feel based in anything. Go look at Pendor if you wanna see how to place a nice interesting Backstory with faction names and Leaders names that I still remember to this day (ShadowMist Rangers anyone.. Qualiis Gems etc...)

Those are Greek-sounding names, i.e. Byzantine, i.e. Empire in the game.
(Istiana is Indonesian, but there are always some deliberate exceptions in worldbuilding because the cultures are not supposed to be exactly identical.)