Beta Patch Notes e1.6.5

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

I would call prison breaks and keep battles "wow" features

?come now no flame baiting, it's in the new rules! ?
https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/forum-rules-update-29-11-2021.448345/
I don't care how many video game enjoyers asked for these features, they're very poor and contribute basically nothing to the game.
Prison breaks are just something to grind a skill of dubious value and has no martial value: releasing one lord early per cool down period is not very useful.
Keep battles are just a momentary distraction and chance for something to cheap shot a good troop. Even after adding the deployment screen it's bad because it will still spawn in clan members and other troops when your disposables go down (and they will).

 

[Phantom425]

I don't care how many video game enjoyers asked for these features, they're very poor and contribute basically nothing to the game.
Prison breaks are just something to grind a skill of dubious value and has no martial value: releasing one lord early per cool down period is not very useful.
Keep battles are just a momentary distraction and chance for something to cheap shot a good troop. Even after adding the deployment screen it's bad because it will still spawn in clan members and other troops when your disposables go down (and they will).

Then what constitutes a "wow" feature? Naval battles? The terrain system? Big "wow" features don't come by very often in games, sometimes once a year. BL has been incredibly slow, yeah, that's undeniable. However, the idea that there is going to be some big "wow" feature added to the game in the EA period is kinda silly. "Wow" features are the kinda features that get included in DLCs, or get hyped up for a good while beforehand. The Terrain System is a wow feature.

And there is a big difference in terms of these "video game enjoyers" versus what someone like you wants in a game. If you don't like them, fine, that's cool, plenty of people think they're neat, plenty of people that keep battles and prison breaks were what a lot of people on this forum wanted to be added to the game. Chill with the elitism, what more casual players want in the game is valid, and they are features.

 

[Lesbosisles]

I agree progress has been way too slow, but I would call prison breaks and keep battles "wow" features. Also, promoting companions to nobility and spear bracing are good.

Prison breaks are worse than they were in Warband, since they exclude the part when you have to make it to the city gates instead of teleporting you from the dungeon to the world map.

Spear bracing - in my long campaign I haven't seen a single AI soldier using it. Haven't noticed the difference at all.

Promoting wanderers - well, it is good. Not "wow", since it has already been in Warband and there it was a little bit more interesting, since if you promote a non-noble companion to a noble, the whole feudal world won't accept it. Haven't tried the Bannerlord version myself, but I guess, here it was simplified as any other aspect.

 

[Emperor1997]

Prison breaks are worse than they were in Warband, since they exclude the part when you have to make it to the city gates instead of teleporting you from the dungeon to the world map.

Spear bracing - in my long campaign I haven't seen a single AI soldier using it. Haven't noticed the difference at all.

Promoting wanderers - well, it is good. Not "wow", since it has already been in Warband and there it was a little bit more interesting, since if you promote a non-noble companion to a noble, the whole feudal world won't accept it. Haven't tried the Bannerlord version myself, but I guess, here it was simplified as any other aspect.

Prison breaks should be reworked, because if the prisoner hero falls, he will die with a 100%, but in battles a hero has only a 2% to die.

 

[Lesbosisles]

Prison breaks should be reworked, because if the prisoner hero falls, he will die with a 100%, but in battles a hero has only a 2% to die.

Sounds like a new bug. In all my previous playthroughs, prisoners did die, but definitely not with 100% probability.

But prison breaks should be really reworked, so they actually mean something. Right now it is a pure EXP grind mechanic. Plus, the Rougery gives you a pathetic boos to a succesful infiltration chance, while your renown decreases your chance severely. In the late game you won't be able to even sneak into town.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

And there is a big difference in terms of these "video game enjoyers" versus what someone like you wants in a game.

They don't even like either of these, you know what they say "I went in to to the prison and my armor disappear! wtf, what bug is this how can I fight without my good armor and shield, also my sword was not my sword anymore! The guard bonked me on the head and my army disbanded! Tw needs to fix this asap!" and "I waited and waited and waited for the enemy to attack and then I jumped down the ladder (lol yolo) so I could retreat and defend from the keep, but there was not option at all! It makes me only send troops again! How can I defend from my keep!!!" "oh I can't DEFEND from the keep.....what the point of this then!" That's what common people think and experience with these features.
"Oh wow new things, it must be good"......"oh no nothing good happened at all wtf?"

plenty of people think they're neat

Neat is not really a standard to be coveted and I think you're just making this up at the risk of pants catching on fire ??
I know some people think it's neat to level up roguery with prison breaks, until they eventual learn what roguery actually does and doesn't do.

Promoting wanderers - well, it is good. Not "wow", since it has already been in Warband and there it was a little bit more interesting, since if you promote a non-noble companion to a noble, the whole feudal world won't accept it. Haven't tried the Bannerlord version myself, but I guess, here it was simplified as any other aspect.

I think it's a really good addition but it also seems like it was 100% needed, like the lack of some way to raise additional clans was a vital part of the mid-late game, so yeah, while I am a big fan of this feature, it's still not a "Wow" feature. Perhaps with more revisions to wanderer's them selves and the vasal creation it will reach a wow factor. For now it just puts out a generic party that can fill AI armies and stop raids, good enough.

Prison breaks should be reworked, because if the prisoner hero falls, he will die with a 100%, but in battles a hero has only a 2% to die.

If so that may be a new bug! In older versions they seemed to have the same (10%) chance of death, but I haven't done any recently since it changed to 2%. ACtualy I think I did one and they prisoner did die, so I re-loaded and didn't do it.

Spear bracing - in my long campaign I haven't seen a single AI soldier using it. Haven't noticed the difference at all.

Agreed. This seems completely alien like they were playing a different game when they made this. I mean. we can't even MAKE cavalry charge into a SW if we wanted to... it's just not gonna happen in SP.

Prison breaks are worse than they were in Warband, since they exclude the part when you have to make it to the city gates instead of teleporting you from the dungeon to the world map.

They were much better for so many reason. 1: you could just pop the guard on the head! 2: You could use you full combat gear in neutral places, it was so fun! 3: You could get out multiple lords at once! 4: You could re-capture a lord you were enemies with! 5: You could see who was in the prison and go find their female family members to get a quest to rescue them, this may sound niche, but getting relations with female lords was one of the only way in vanilla to open up option to improve relations with other lords!

 

[five bucks]

I don't care how many video game enjoyers asked for these features, they're very poor and contribute basically nothing to the game.
Prison breaks are just something to grind a skill of dubious value and has no martial value: releasing one lord early per cool down period is not very useful.
Keep battles are just a momentary distraction

Aren't video games themselves just a distraction though?

Both keep battles and prison breaks are FUN distractions that provide needed variety. Changes of activity/scenery are necessary to make the game not feel repetitive.

They are both also challenging fights in interesting environments (claustrophobic dungeons or vertical throne rooms), which make the player's combat skills more relevant through smaller-scale fights, as opposed to a 500v500 battle where your performance as an individual fighter doesn't really matter.

Keep battles/prison breaks add immersion to the game world. They both make underused content (civilian outfits/keep scenes/prison scenes) more useful, while also tying into the main gameplay loop. Prison breaks give you 20 relation and yes, Roguery XP (even though I agree roguery is weak). Before prison breaks, if someone you wanted to talk to got captured, you had to wait out the entire term of their imprisonment. Now you can take matters into your own hands.

We're all on the same page here that Taleworlds hasn't made enough progress, and sure these particular features could be better, but they're still good features.

and chance for something to cheap shot a good troop. Even after adding the deployment screen it's bad because it will still spawn in clan members and other troops when your disposables go down (and they will).

Armor protection being **** is what's to blame for high-level troops getting killed unexpectedly in keep battles.

Prison breaks are worse than they were in Warband, since they exclude the part when you have to make it to the city gates instead of teleporting you from the dungeon to the world map.

I'd call them a sidegrade. Instead of a fight through the city, you fight through the dungeons, which wasn't there in Warband.
In fact, the first few times I did prison breaks in Warband I remember being disappointed you couldn't fight in the dungeons, so I consider it an acceptable trade-off.

Spear bracing - in my long campaign I haven't seen a single AI soldier using it. Haven't noticed the difference at all.

Yeah, agreed, same experience in my campaigns. The player can do it, though.
The AI troops not spear bracing is mainly due to troops using long pikes being too uncommon, something which the troop trees need to be reworked to fix, as I recently made a thread to say.

 

[Lesbosisles]

In fact, the first few times I did prison breaks in Warband I remember being disappointed you couldn't fight in the dungeons, so I consider it an acceptable trade-off.

Dungeons are all the same. They don't have any unique structure, they are all as one. Cities, on the contrary, have at least some diversion - a few templates now + we already have some unique cities. So no, I wouldn't call it an acceptable trade-off.

If I was to choose between fighting one and the same dungeon over and over and over again or to fight at different cities with their alleys and stuff, I wouldn't even hesistate choosing the second option.

 

[MostBlunted]

That´s why we also need more bandit camps, like 5+ for each type.

 

[Grank]

At the very God damn least these lackluster features are the start to something. Having a ****ty prison break is better than none at all. It still can be fixed either by TW or by mods. I'd rather TW add as many of these lackluster features as possible, rather than coming up with fewer features that are already perfect from the get-go. As long as they don't straight up crash the game of course.

 

[five bucks]

Dungeons are all the same. They don't have any unique structure, they are all as one. Cities, on the contrary, have at least some diversion - a few templates now + we already have some unique cities. So no, I wouldn't call it an acceptable trade-off.

I just checked now, different culture dungeons aren't all the same, they have different structure as well as looking different.
Aserai dungeons are cell > anteroom with guardrooms > wide tunnel > steep stair > crossroads with guardroom at side > steep stair > long hallway > crossroads with guardroom at side > small exit with two guardrooms.
Empire dungeons are cell > wavy tunnel > spiral stair > crossroads with guardroom at side > split-level room with stairs > steep staircase room > long room with left exit > short hallway > major atrium with sideroom > exit.
Vlandian dungeons are cell > crossroads with side guardroom > short tunnel > steep staircase > tunnel bending right > atrium with 2 guardrooms and exit.
I didn't bother to check the others but you get the idea.

Maybe we'll get more dungeon variants but it's not a huge drawback for me.

 

[Lesbosisles]

I just checked now, different culture dungeons aren't all the same, they have different structure as well as looking different.
Aserai dungeons are cell > anteroom with guardrooms > wide tunnel > steep stair > crossroads with guardroom at side > steep stair > long hallway > crossroads with guardroom at side > small exit with two guardrooms.
Empire dungeons are cell > wavy tunnel > spiral stair > crossroads with guardroom at side > split-level room with stairs > steep staircase room > long room with left exit > short hallway > major atrium with sideroom > exit.
Vlandian dungeons are cell > crossroads with side guardroom > short tunnel > steep staircase > tunnel bending right > atrium with 2 guardrooms and exit.
I didn't bother to check the others but you get the idea.

Maybe we'll get more dungeon variants but it's not a huge drawback for me.

That's not what I was talking about.

Sure, Aserai will not look the same as the Battanian one (that's would've been a complete bummer if they were all absolutely same). I was talking about variations. We have 1 Aserai prison, 1 Imperial, 1 Battanian, 1 Sturgian prison and 1 Vlandian prison - 5 prisons.

For cities we have at least 2 templates for each faction plus some unique Imperial and Vlandian cities.

That´s why we also need more bandit camps, like 5+ for each type.

Agreed. We should have more camp variety or at least the ability to auto calculate the attack.

 

[MostBlunted]

Agreed. We should have more camp variety or at least the ability to auto calculate the attack.

But you won´t be able to use this feature. 10 looters can kill one of your T5+ units when they fight 10 vs 200 in auto battle. Imagine what those bandits would do to your small crew in auto battle.

Edit: Also auto battle is already kind of in the game for camps (as for every of those thousands battles you´ll easily win but have to fight within 3 ingame days in mid/late game):

Select all > F4 (only needed for camps)
Select all > F1 > F3

In open field battles there is also a second strategy:

Select all > F6

Of course you need some decent troops for this to work. I´m using the time waiting for my troops winning without casualties to get some coffee or stuff like this, maybe even more useful then a real unbalanced and random auto battle feature.

 

[five bucks]

Sure, Aserai will not look the same as the Battanian one (that's would've been a complete bummer if they were all absolutely same). I was talking about variations. We have 1 Aserai prison, 1 Imperial, 1 Battanian, 1 Sturgian prison and 1 Vlandian prison - 5 prisons.

Hate to be pedantic, but 6, don't forget Khuzait prisons. They look similar to Aserai ones but have a different layout.
That aside you're right there is less variety in layouts when comparing Warband and Bannerlord breakouts, and as Ananda said there are a bunch of other minor nice things about Warband prison breaks they missed. But overall they got the feature right.

 

[Addix95]

should we wait for 1.6.6 this week?

 

[TurtleFactz]

should we wait for 1.6.6 this week?

Pretty unlikely but nobody knowwwwws

 

[Pizi_G]

But you won´t be able to use this feature. 10 looters can kill one of your T5+ units when they fight 10 vs 200 in auto battle. Imagine what those bandits would do to your small crew in auto battle.

yeah thats always kinda meh
but i explain it away to me that he fall of a clif or fall from his horse and broke his neck or was kicked by a horse =))

 

[Mad Vader]

Pretty unlikely but nobody knowwwwws

Fun turtle fact: turtles aren't silent. If you ask a turtle when is the next patch, it will say "not this week".

 

[Addix95]

I am observing activity on steam bd

 

[TurtleFactz]

Fun turtle fact: turtles aren't silent. If you ask a turtle when is the next patch, it will say "not this week".

Hey, I tell the turtle facts around here bud.