[Captain Mode Focused]
@NIN3 You mentioned you were looking at different projectile loadouts for skirmishers. I'm not understanding what the MP design philosophy for Throwing Axes is and I'd like to request a nudge in direction.
They have been made a dedicated Skirmisher weapon, and their ammo count was made higher than the Brigand's javelin count.
We have done a complete reversal of the original (and in my mind, correct) design philosophy as a low ammo, short range, high damage cutting throwable with bad accuracy.
Their damage output, even against unarmored enemies, is consistently lower than the light javelin, and is not worth the time it takes to throw it against even medium enemies. (You can do 60 damage even against moderately armored targets moving towards you with a javelin bodyshot, and I have never done that much damage on any enemy with a headshot throwing axe in the current patch even at point-blank ranges.)
Their effective range is much lower than the Brigand javelin options, and their accuracy is lower.
I have lost track of whether or not TW has completely removed "Bonus Damage To Shields" from Captain thowing axes, but the damage output is so negligible when combined with the "Captain Mode Shield Multiplier" that you will never break a shield with throwing axes or even contribute in a meaningful way to it being broken later. I'd love to argue for throwing axes to have a much more significant impact on shields, but given recent design decisions I do not foresee that happening.
I would like us to consider reversing the direction on this. The brigand is all around the worst skirmisher unit (low troop count + recent melee weapon nerf combined with poor ranged damage output), which is already the least effective class overall, making the Brigand probably the least impactful single class in the entire game.
If we change the axe to a quick to throw, low-count, high damage, short range throwable, with poor accuracy, it becomes a unique piece and has an obvious use case. Essentially a medieval combat shotgun, as it was actually used in battle.
Brigands could become anti-shock light infantry, able to cover the Varyags against flanks by Shock infantry if they are not caught flat-footed.
Brigands could be used in more of an "ambush" role, using their superior mobility to get in close range to Archers in bad positions and absolutely rake them with a high-damage cutting volley as they try to flee.
This fits more in line with what I have interpreted the design philosophy of the Brigands to be. A mobile striker who cannot take part in any sustained engagement whatsoever, but can reach out and hit poorly positioned targets that the varyags and warriors cannot.
Any kind of heavy troop automatically counters this new concept of the throwing axe, since the low accuracy and cutting damage mean there is no way they could deal significant damage before melee is joined, or the heavy archers rip them apart. Any kind of shield troop that is paying attention also counters this, or just keeping out of close range until the throwing axes are spent.
Their current loadout has no obvious use case, except maybe peasants or clan warriors that are AFK.
You should be afraid of a bunch of criminal vikings throwing axes at you from 10 meters away, and it is the least frightening thing in the game at the moment.
edit: I understand the "OMG RNG BAD" argument for Skirmish. I think its valid to just not have it as a perk selection option for Skirmish. A throwing axe is a mass combat weapon, not a man-to-man weapon.
@NIN3 You mentioned you were looking at different projectile loadouts for skirmishers. I'm not understanding what the MP design philosophy for Throwing Axes is and I'd like to request a nudge in direction.
They have been made a dedicated Skirmisher weapon, and their ammo count was made higher than the Brigand's javelin count.
We have done a complete reversal of the original (and in my mind, correct) design philosophy as a low ammo, short range, high damage cutting throwable with bad accuracy.
Their damage output, even against unarmored enemies, is consistently lower than the light javelin, and is not worth the time it takes to throw it against even medium enemies. (You can do 60 damage even against moderately armored targets moving towards you with a javelin bodyshot, and I have never done that much damage on any enemy with a headshot throwing axe in the current patch even at point-blank ranges.)
Their effective range is much lower than the Brigand javelin options, and their accuracy is lower.
I have lost track of whether or not TW has completely removed "Bonus Damage To Shields" from Captain thowing axes, but the damage output is so negligible when combined with the "Captain Mode Shield Multiplier" that you will never break a shield with throwing axes or even contribute in a meaningful way to it being broken later. I'd love to argue for throwing axes to have a much more significant impact on shields, but given recent design decisions I do not foresee that happening.
I would like us to consider reversing the direction on this. The brigand is all around the worst skirmisher unit (low troop count + recent melee weapon nerf combined with poor ranged damage output), which is already the least effective class overall, making the Brigand probably the least impactful single class in the entire game.
If we change the axe to a quick to throw, low-count, high damage, short range throwable, with poor accuracy, it becomes a unique piece and has an obvious use case. Essentially a medieval combat shotgun, as it was actually used in battle.
Brigands could become anti-shock light infantry, able to cover the Varyags against flanks by Shock infantry if they are not caught flat-footed.
Brigands could be used in more of an "ambush" role, using their superior mobility to get in close range to Archers in bad positions and absolutely rake them with a high-damage cutting volley as they try to flee.
This fits more in line with what I have interpreted the design philosophy of the Brigands to be. A mobile striker who cannot take part in any sustained engagement whatsoever, but can reach out and hit poorly positioned targets that the varyags and warriors cannot.
Any kind of heavy troop automatically counters this new concept of the throwing axe, since the low accuracy and cutting damage mean there is no way they could deal significant damage before melee is joined, or the heavy archers rip them apart. Any kind of shield troop that is paying attention also counters this, or just keeping out of close range until the throwing axes are spent.
Their current loadout has no obvious use case, except maybe peasants or clan warriors that are AFK.
You should be afraid of a bunch of criminal vikings throwing axes at you from 10 meters away, and it is the least frightening thing in the game at the moment.
edit: I understand the "OMG RNG BAD" argument for Skirmish. I think its valid to just not have it as a perk selection option for Skirmish. A throwing axe is a mass combat weapon, not a man-to-man weapon.
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