The Solution to Fix the Spear/Polearm Issues

[bestmods168]

The spear/polearm issue in bannerlord can be fixed.

So many of us are aware about the annoyance on the use of polearm against other infantry units. When performing an attack with a polearm in formation, the polearm with either get interrupted by friendly from behind or get interrupted by the enemy in front. Many times this deals either very very little damage or none at all.
This issue has been brought up to the developer's attention time and time again. Either taleworlds is determined to not fix this or they are not sure how to fix this.
Some modders have attempted to fix this with tweaks and other work arounds. Some of these tweaks are satisfactory to an extent.
I too have played around with my own tweaks with each set of tweaking having various results. Some better than others. However, with the right combination
of tweaks I have been able to make polearms usable enough to satisfy the majority of players IMO. These tweaks have been concocted last fall. They just have never been finalized.

The fix can be realized with probably only a few line of codes. The coders at taleworlds are very capable of implementing the codes. Their approach in their implementations are quite logical with some features. With that said, it is up to them to find the way to fix the polearms in the game via the coding approach. Taleworlds have showed over time that they can be one step behind, but be able to rebound two steps forward because they have the proper access and resources. This is the best I can do for taleworlds. The solution is there. You just have to look for it.

With all due respect, including respected modders, please don't dm me or ask me about the tweaks. I will respectfully not respond no matter who you are. This is something that taleworlds must do on their own. This is not the responsibility of modders. Taleworlds must be at the frontlines driving positive change.

Peace Be With You

 

[HalfMetalJacket]

Its the former. I am afraid that TW is determined not to really fix the way polearms are. From a post I read from them, they are set on making them exclusively anti cavalry with little use against infantry.

For anyone looking for a Viking Conquest sort of experience with spears, it seems modding is the only way.

 

[Tork789]

From a post I read from them, they are set on making them exclusively anti cavalry with little use against infantry.

Sounds logical to me. If they were to make spears as useful at point-blank range what would be the purpose of other weapons? As they work right now is the best solution if you take into account the ease of implementation and overall gameplay: spears are for anti-cav and for attacking at range, shorter weapons are for close range. Makes sense to me.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

. From a post I read from them, they are set on making them exclusively anti cavalry

Lol everything is anti Cav though, Cav gets KO'd by recruits because they charge in, miss and eat speed boosted hoe damage to the leg!
? ?triangle too complex for modern gamers, TW needed a new system so they invented "Long ranged scissors, paper, paper on a horse and long ranged scissors on a horse" ™ system.

 

[Life_Erikson]

Sounds logical to me. If they were to make spears as useful at point-blank range what would be the purpose of other weapons? As they work right now is the best solution if you take into account the ease of implementation and overall gameplay: spears are for anti-cav and for attacking at range, shorter weapons are for close range. Makes sense to me.

Historically the point of a sword was that it was easy to carry and good for close quarters. Similar to a modern soldier who has a rifle but also a handgun, the sword is the handgun. It is for the situation that you either loose your primary weapon (polearm/rifle) or are in a situation where it isn't effective anymore (the battlefield gets so condensed that there isn't anymore space to manouvre).

Getting the same situation to work in game is extremely difficult as NPC's are bad at keeping a specific distance to each other.
Wether it is usefull to impliment it as such in the game is also questionable. People like the rock, paper, scissors approach in games because it works satisfyingly. But reality is more complex than that.

I personally like realism (and so I would like to see more effective spears too), but this may not be the best solution for most players because it might make some of their favourite weapons useless.

Its the former. I am afraid that TW is determined not to really fix the way polearms are. From a post I read from them, they are set on making them exclusively anti cavalry with little use against infantry.

For anyone looking for a Viking Conquest sort of experience with spears, it seems modding is the only way.

I think so too. I hope OP is right and this can easily fixed with mods.

 

[bfmsc]

maybe the way used by warband mod "prophesy of pendor" is a good example, they just make polearm can just thrust through friendly unit's model.

 

[Tork789]

Historically the point of a sword was that it was easy to carry and good for close quarters. Similar to a modern soldier who has a rifle but also a handgun, the sword is the handgun.

That is a bs comparison first promoted unwittingly by Matt Easton on his youtube channel and got repeated mindlessly by his followers. It is bs because nowadays you only take out your handgun when your rifle is somehow unusuable, whereas there were plenty of situations where the sword was more preferrable: be it a close quarters melee, narrow streets or insides of a castle during a siege. Also we know that there were warriors that used swords as primary weapons of choice: from romans in Antiquity to rodeleros in Early Modern Age or simply when they felt that the swords were better:

A great many French fell and perished at the first onrush, for they carry shorter javelins(lances), wherefore they felt the first blows; however, the French seemed better suited to the sword, for as it is shorter, it is on that account considered better.

I am the sword, deadly against all weapons. Neither spear, nor poleaxe, nor dagger can prevail against me. I can be used at long range or close range, or I can be held in the half sword grip and move to the Narrow Game. I can be used to take away the opponent’s sword, or move to grapple. My skill lies in breaking and binding. I am also skilled in covering and striking, with which I seek always to finish the fight. I will crush anyone who opposes me. I am of royal blood. I dispense justice, advance the cause of good and destroy evil. To those who learn my crossings I will grant great fame and renown in the art of armed fighting.
Fiore Furlano de’i Liberi de Cividale d’Austria

I personally like realism (and so I would like to see more effective spears too), but this may not be the best solution for most players because it might make some of their favourite weapons useless.

And I disagree, I think as they are made right now the spears are pretty close to realism: they are useful at range, but less so at close range, requiring you to keep distance or switch to a shorter weapon. People really should shrug off the false notion of spears being the ultimate weapon, it's become the new katana thanks to the youtube historians with long shaft fetish.

 

[Life_Erikson]

That is a bs comparison first promoted unwittingly by Matt Easton on his youtube channel and got repeated mindlessly by his followers. It is bs because nowadays you only take out your handgun when your rifle is somehow unusuable, whereas there were plenty of situations where the sword was more preferrable: be it a close quarters melee, narrow streets or insides of a castle during a siege. Also we know that there were warriors that used swords as primary weapons of choice: from romans in Antiquity to rodeleros in Early Modern Age or simply when they felt that the swords were better:




And I disagree, I think as they are made right now the spears are pretty close to realism: they are useful at range, but less so at close range, requiring you to keep distance or switch to a shorter weapon. People really should shrug off the false notion of spears being the ultimate weapon, it's become the new katana thanks to the youtube historians with long shaft fetish.

Did you even read my post? I specifically state that polearms are useless in situations where there is not enough space.

If you look at early medieval grave goods for exemple (not so far fetched of an exemple since BL roughly falls in that period though anachronistic) swords and axes are pretty rare wheras spears and knives are abundant. Knives are generally rather short, more of a close quarters last defence weapon, so it can be safely assumed that the spear was the primary weapon. Also because you couldn't ditch the spear and then get it back quickly. Concerning cavalry; during that time period cavalry was extremely rare.

Armies relying on the sword rather than the spear as their main infantry weapon (romans come to mind) are rather rare wheras I could think of several armies which were famous for their spear use. (ancient Greeks, ancient Macedon, ancient Germans, late medieval Swiss, late medieval scots, modern Zulu)

I don't care what some "Matt Easton" on youtube tells. And I am certainly not one of the sheeple spouting out what their favourite youtuber said without their own thoughts or research.

In terms of gameplay I see the problem (again, as I already stated) in the fact that the AI is not able to hold its distance in order to use their weapon correctly. They will block themselves and each other. Therefore, even if the situation could be favourable for polearms, the AI can't use them properly.
The simplest solution would be to make polearms less hitbox sensitive. But in that case they would still be super effective whilst defending a wall during a siege for exemple, which is not exactly what we want. If they were super effective in every situation ther would be no reason for the player to use swords. Thats what I meant by saying that this isn't necessarily the best solution.

 

[bfmsc]

Also, the hit rate of ai solider is ridiculous high, that makes every weapon, even a very short knife or smith hammer can hit a full speed charging knight in ai's hand, so the ability to stop a horse is insignificant, which should be one of the core advantage for polearms.

 

[ElCrisp]

Even if spears were buffed substantially, swinging weapons have a number of mechanical advantages that makes them desirable.
Swinging across an arc gives large coverage to hit a target, if your target moves or you have to move you still have large zone to hit the enemy with. Swinging weapons have a greater number of attack direction and so are marginally more difficult to defend against.

The stabbing motion on spears is very exaggerated and over extended. Improving with skill, but still an odd animation.
The ability to do short fast stabs for low damage (and potentially reduced stun) would be nice. As jabbing with the long pointy stick is sort of an apparent strategy to any who had picked up a stick.
Overhand grip as a weapon mode also would be a nice addition, but perhaps beyond what is going to be persued in development creating new animations.

 

[Lusitani 5th Empire]

Even if spears were buffed substantially, swinging weapons have a number of mechanical advantages that makes them desirable.
Swinging across an arc gives large coverage to hit a target, if your target moves or you have to move you still have large zone to hit the enemy with. Swinging weapons have a greater number of attack direction and so are marginally more difficult to defend against.

The stabbing motion on spears is very exaggerated and over extended. Improving with skill, but still an odd animation.
The ability to do short fast stabs for low damage (and potentially reduced stun) would be nice. As jabbing with the long pointy stick is sort of an apparent strategy to any who had picked up a stick.
Overhand grip as a weapon mode also would be a nice addition, but perhaps beyond what is going to be persued in development creating new animations.

This.
FIX THE ANIMATIONS.

 

[mujadaddy]

The stabbing motion on spears is very exaggerated and over extended. Improving with skill, but still an odd animation.
The ability to do short fast stabs for low damage (and potentially reduced stun) would be nice. As jabbing with the long pointy stick is sort of an apparent strategy to any who had picked up a stick.
Overhand grip as a weapon mode also would be a nice addition, but perhaps beyond what is going to be persued in development creating new animations.

I've thought that spear thrusts on foot should be about TWICE as FAST to compensate for how bad they are.