Copy-paste of a thread i made on the Steam version and i'm currently on the live version cuz that has MP servers. After reading through the beta patch notes, I can't help but voice my concern about the consequences that the upcoming changes could have towards the current balancing. Heck, balancing is still all over the place and I think nerfing the javelin throwers will do more harm than good.
Throwing Spear nerfs
1.6.1 is looking to change the following
-Throwing Spears cannot be recovered from corpses
-Throwing Spears replace javelin quiver in non-Captain modes
The permanent loss of the throwing spear upon hitting and/or killing a unit or horse really doesn't sit well with me considering that the perk is tied to the Recruit and Brigand classes. Recruit because it enables a free unit to counter cavalry units and since the Pilum itself has a reach of 160-something (not nearly enough to stab horses in melee), your best bet is to throw it anyways. Once you lose that pilum, you're pretty much a free kill. I could say something similar with the Brigand especially since he pretty much carries an otherwise unplayable faction.
On the topic of the replacement of the javelin quiver, I can really only see this working with the Wildling since he's already got a decent amount of armor. And reading the patch notes on him like three times, I think I can agree with the tradeoffs of losing that javelin quiver if he picks the throwing spear since he now has a better shield and access to a one-handed blunt weapon. Meanwhile, the Recruit and Brigand both need to have their javelin quivers in order to be useful. Recruit because free unit should be a viable pick for late joiners instead of just being a form of punishment for dying as a low-cost unit and Brigand because he still needs to carry a bad faction. Speaking of the Brigand
Brigand-specific nerfs, or "TaleWorlds hates Sturgia"
Not too sure how to feel about the changes specific to the Brigand. 1.6.1 is looking to replace the Northern Heavy Axe with a generic sword while the default axe is going to be replaced with the same peasant axe that is used by the Warrior, neither of these changes are sounding particularly pleasant. Pretty much, he won't be all too capable in damaging enemy shields moving forward unless they backtrack on the Brigand nerfs.
A possible compromise
Because TaleWorlds is likely adamant about nerfing the non-Aserai javelin throwers, I think they can still make javelin throwers with throwing spears have worse throwing weapons than those with regular javelins. Perhaps this would be a welcome replacement instead?
Pilum & Throwing Knives (Recruit)
Adds Pilum to inventory, replaces Javelin (3) with Throwing Dagger. Quiver of 3, damage values identical to Northern Throwing Axe
Throwing Spear & Axes (Brigand)
Adds Ash Throwing Spear to inventory, replaces Javelin (3) with Northern Throwing Axe (3)
The addition of Throwing Knives could allow for the Recruit and Brigand to deal a respectable amount of ranged damage against archers, peasant units and shock troops, while making the Extra Javelins and Better Javelins perks a more attractive option for players expecting to fight heavy infantry. This should still achieve the goal in making throwing spears less powerful than they currently are, while also allowing the Recruit and Brigand to still be useful.
Other
I love how Jereed duping isn't being looked at right now. IMO, I think this could be a good way to handle things:
Perk 1
Better Javelins - Jereed (3) is replaced with Jereed (5)
Perk 2
Jereed (3) - Replaced with Improved Armor (+9 armor, downgrades Oval Shield to Old Horseman's Kite Shield)
The above suggestion should prevent players from cheesing the usage Jereed Perk 2 option while also making the Better Javelins perk actually feel like an upgrade. As it currently stands, there's no reason to not pick Axe as your Perk 1 and Jereed as your Perk 2 since you can drop your default Javelin quiver to duplicate your jereeds.
Throwing Spear nerfs
1.6.1 is looking to change the following
-Throwing Spears cannot be recovered from corpses
-Throwing Spears replace javelin quiver in non-Captain modes
The permanent loss of the throwing spear upon hitting and/or killing a unit or horse really doesn't sit well with me considering that the perk is tied to the Recruit and Brigand classes. Recruit because it enables a free unit to counter cavalry units and since the Pilum itself has a reach of 160-something (not nearly enough to stab horses in melee), your best bet is to throw it anyways. Once you lose that pilum, you're pretty much a free kill. I could say something similar with the Brigand especially since he pretty much carries an otherwise unplayable faction.
On the topic of the replacement of the javelin quiver, I can really only see this working with the Wildling since he's already got a decent amount of armor. And reading the patch notes on him like three times, I think I can agree with the tradeoffs of losing that javelin quiver if he picks the throwing spear since he now has a better shield and access to a one-handed blunt weapon. Meanwhile, the Recruit and Brigand both need to have their javelin quivers in order to be useful. Recruit because free unit should be a viable pick for late joiners instead of just being a form of punishment for dying as a low-cost unit and Brigand because he still needs to carry a bad faction. Speaking of the Brigand
Brigand-specific nerfs, or "TaleWorlds hates Sturgia"
Not too sure how to feel about the changes specific to the Brigand. 1.6.1 is looking to replace the Northern Heavy Axe with a generic sword while the default axe is going to be replaced with the same peasant axe that is used by the Warrior, neither of these changes are sounding particularly pleasant. Pretty much, he won't be all too capable in damaging enemy shields moving forward unless they backtrack on the Brigand nerfs.
A possible compromise
Because TaleWorlds is likely adamant about nerfing the non-Aserai javelin throwers, I think they can still make javelin throwers with throwing spears have worse throwing weapons than those with regular javelins. Perhaps this would be a welcome replacement instead?
Pilum & Throwing Knives (Recruit)
Adds Pilum to inventory, replaces Javelin (3) with Throwing Dagger. Quiver of 3, damage values identical to Northern Throwing Axe
Throwing Spear & Axes (Brigand)
Adds Ash Throwing Spear to inventory, replaces Javelin (3) with Northern Throwing Axe (3)
The addition of Throwing Knives could allow for the Recruit and Brigand to deal a respectable amount of ranged damage against archers, peasant units and shock troops, while making the Extra Javelins and Better Javelins perks a more attractive option for players expecting to fight heavy infantry. This should still achieve the goal in making throwing spears less powerful than they currently are, while also allowing the Recruit and Brigand to still be useful.
Other
I love how Jereed duping isn't being looked at right now. IMO, I think this could be a good way to handle things:
Perk 1
Better Javelins - Jereed (3) is replaced with Jereed (5)
Perk 2
Jereed (3) - Replaced with Improved Armor (+9 armor, downgrades Oval Shield to Old Horseman's Kite Shield)
The above suggestion should prevent players from cheesing the usage Jereed Perk 2 option while also making the Better Javelins perk actually feel like an upgrade. As it currently stands, there's no reason to not pick Axe as your Perk 1 and Jereed as your Perk 2 since you can drop your default Javelin quiver to duplicate your jereeds.
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