Bannerlord was a grift

[Mad Vader]

This is objectively false and has been denied by a dev. The update was made in progress following the thread, and there is no proof whatsoever to prove that the outrage had an effect on the update. I am inclined to believe Duh as he has no real reason to lie about that, and has been truthful in the past. The anger did nothing, and the thread that was made following that was already promised before the massive freakout and the modder ragequit. If you look at the 1.6.0 update and the modder letter and takeaway that anger like that gets anything done, you are taking away the wrong lesson. The lesson is that a coordinated, proper movement from prominent members of the community can and will get TW's attention to get things done.

You are wrong and his timeline is right.
ONLY when Jance complained (May 31) that after 2.5 months (the initial letter was from March 16) nothing that was promised has been done, they moved their asses (Jun 2) to remove the internals. Their statement was actually that they removed some and added some internals and let's all wait for 1.6 before commenting, with no details NOR date for 1.6 given (luckily it was soon after, but they didn't dare say that). This caused anger and consternation. Then you came into the thread to police the tone and be confused. Then people tried to explain the thread to you with little effect since you decided to white knight for Taleworlds, telling people to stop talking until Taleworlds decides to release something that may or may not be good enough for modders at unspecified date.
You must love company PR for some reason and take it for literal truth, maybe you should consider why.
If you really think Taleworlds was going to remove those internals without prodding and the timing was an incredible coincidence, then I have this bridge you might be interested in.

 

[bonerstorm]

BL is currently in EA. What this means is that players will most likely wait for the release of the game to really dig into it.

You have no evidence of this. BL is not DayZ Standalone.

When I talk to most normal gamers about Bannerlord and explain to them the features are in Bannerlord now, were cut from Warband and are confirmed not going to be in the game - they flip a ****. Just the fact that the modding community even had to sign an open letter to get a dialogue going - let alone that it took 3 months to get a response - was enough for most gamers to go completely blackpill.

If BL releases as-is, then most fans - even many vociferous defenders - will lose their minds. If you look at the posts on the Steam boards, you'll see plenty of TW defenders ardently, passionately claiming that BL is going to have features that we already know aren't going to happen and hoping for features that aren't even on our radar.

I highly doubt they are going to monetize features from WB, TW isn't as scummy as companies such as Paradox, but they will probably add some features for free.

You have no evidence of this.

Just a few years ago, Paradox didn't have a reputation for being scummy. They earned that by releasing crap product and failing to listen to fans.

The game, at this point, is being ironed out and polished. Once the game is polished, and the desired features have been added, that is when a game leaves EA.

You have no evidence of this.

The game has hardly improved in over a year. There's no rational basis to believe it's going to improve in the future without remarkable changes in the way TW does business.

I don't know, it could be half a year to a year and a half

You have no evidence of this.

From what the devs have been saying, the target is Q4 2020 and the fallback goal is Q1 2021. The only way that they actively choose to give up on console port money is if it is clear to them that releasing the game in an unfinished state will be a PR disaster.

My point was to wait until the patch would release and be patient. Not waiting for that patch to come out and immediately making assumptions was being inpatient.

And we explained to you, mostly politely, that we've been "waiting until the patch" for over a year.

I've also always been trying to be understand of the anger. That's why I've never gone and said I don't understand why are you made the game is fine as is what is the big deal?

The game is not fine as-is. This is a medieval combat game where spears don't work, sieges don't work and shieldwalls don't work. The same is true for skills, traits, clans, economy, kingdom diplomacy etc etc etc. Literally zero features in this game are release-ready and some are even worse than they were at EA launch.

This is objectively false and has been denied by a dev.

Nope. What @MadVader said. At this point, a dev claiming that a thing is true leads me to believe the opposite - since devs and community reps have been consistently wrong for years. I'm not saying they were lying - but they have repeatedly said things would happen and those predictions repeatedly failed to come true.

This is what I keep telling you: your pro-TW position is based entirely on conjecture and hopey-feels, while our concerned/negative/blackpilled position is based on fact and experience.

EDIT: At the risk of feeding my ego, I'll also note that I personally raised a minor crapstorm by dominating the conversation on Steam and Reddit for a few days with an IRL-journalist-flex summary of the situation - a flex that actually got a dev to respond to the concerns of average gamers (I think rather weakly). My Steam post alone was at the top of the board for weeks and appears to be one of the most-trafficked posts in the history of that discussion board. I've no doubt that I'm probably to blame for a few of the fresh-profile white knights who popped up to spew pro-TW hate.

In the end, TW did exactly what the community demanded in record time. Coincidence? I think not.

 

[Roy1012]

eh it was whatever, to be honest multiplayer was hit pretty hard because of EA and around this time in warband development multiplayer was hitting its stride but who honestly knows a big youtuber could come revive multiplayer (see holdfast as a example) even though its not the best. They just need some writers for single player to give the world some lore.

That would not fix anything. The multiplayer is ****, if millions of people see **** they will realize it. They need to do half a dozen things to make multiaplyer good (actually allow modders to work). If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.

 

[Emil]

It is odd that Warband does not have a release peak.

It was years and years ago, but I purchased my first copy of Mount and Blade on Amazon without any Steam activation needed whatsoever, and tend to remember that even Warband had the same options. You have to remember that Steam was still was quite new as a DRM service back in 2008-2010 and not many games were supported then aside from Valves own games, thus many players didn't feel the need to use it. So that could explain why a large chunk of the player population never has been accounted for through Steam statistics.

 

[Phantom425]

You are wrong and his timeline is right.
ONLY when Jance complained (May 31) that after 2.5 months (the initial letter was from March 16) nothing that was promised has been done, they moved their asses (Jun 2) to remove the internals. Their statement was actually that they removed some and added some internals and let's all wait for 1.6 before commenting, with no details NOR date for 1.6 given (luckily it was soon after, but they didn't dare say that). This caused anger and consternation. Then you came into the thread to police the tone and be confused. Then people tried to explain the thread to you with little effect since you decided to white knight for Taleworlds, telling people to stop talking until Taleworlds decides to release something that may or may not be good enough for modders at unspecified date.

What this does is show that TW responded to Jance and stated what would be in the upcoming patch. Given that the patch contained other things that are not just pertaining to modding, it is highly unlikely that the outrage following Dejan's post is what caused the patch to drop a week later. If outrage was a motivator for things to be fixed, then sieges would have been fixed months ago.

And I will still stand by what I did. I told people to not freak out about what may or may not be in the patch until the patch was actually in our hands. By going doomer and saying that TW was going "F you" to modders, that's what I spoke against. What does that do besides rile up people for something that hasn't even happened yet, and what was clearly proven to be false. The primary motivator behind the patch was the letter and if anything else had a definite effect it was Jance's follow up post that got them to elaborate further on it, but not do it.

You have no evidence of this. BL is not DayZ Standalone.

This doesn't just happen with DayZ Standalone, multiple other games see increase in playercounts following a general release, examples being Space Engineers, Subnautica, and Prison Architect. This isn't just a phenomena that has been seen with DayZ, it has been seen with many other games. So, it is very easy to assume that players will come back to the game following the actual release. That is my evidence of that.

When I talk to most normal gamers about Bannerlord and explain to them the features are in Bannerlord now, were cut from Warband and are confirmed not going to be in the game - they flip a ****. Just the fact that the modding community even had to sign an open letter to get a dialogue going - let alone that it took 3 months to get a response - was enough for most gamers to go completely blackpill.

If BL releases as-is, then most fans - even many vociferous defenders - will lose their minds. If you look at the posts on the Steam boards, you'll see plenty of TW defenders ardently, passionately claiming that BL is going to have features that we already know aren't going to happen and hoping for features that aren't even on our radar.

Yeah, no. If most players have already been blackpilled then the game would not have the amount of players that it has. In fact, if it were the case, WB would have more players currently then BL does. However, that is not the case. Most people player BL tend to enjoy the game, if they didn't then they wouldn't play it. WB is not only more polished and finished then BL, it is also significantly cheaper.

And yeah, if BL releases as is people would be disappointed. Would people lose their minds? No, they wouldn't, because the game isn't that bad. Is it buggy, yeah, does it have missing promised features, yeah, it is still an Early Access game. And, if an EA game is released before it is finished, then people will be annoyed by that.

Just a few years ago, Paradox didn't have a reputation for being scummy. They earned that by releasing crap product and failing to listen to fans.

As someone who plays Paradox, they were always scummy. Just look at CK2, in order to actually play the game fully you would have to spend upwards of $300, same goes for EU4, somewhat the same for Stellaris and HOI. People are now just angry because Leviathan literally broke the game and two months in it still hasn't been fixed. This isn't a BL missing features level of bad, this is a literally I can no longer play the game that I have purchased level of bad. This isn't to downplay the state of BL, this is to show how bad Paradox has been.

The game has hardly improved in over a year. There's no rational basis to believe it's going to improve in the future without remarkable changes in the way TW does business.

What do you mean no evidence? The past patch is evidence of them working to iron out the game. Performance following the last patch increased. That is what ironing out the game is, trying to make sure it can run well. I didn't say remarkable changes, that isn't what polishing it out is.

However, in terms of remarkable changes, you're not going to get on in one patch. Each patch will probably build and build on what the last one did, small changes. Not one patch will totally alter the game.

From what the devs have been saying, the target is Q4 2020 and the fallback goal is Q1 2021. The only way that they actively choose to give up on console port money is if it is clear to them that releasing the game in an unfinished state will be a PR disaster.

That was my point, I don't know when the game will release. They have missed their release dates, so who knows when the game will come out. Like I said, it could be half a year to a year and a half.

And we explained to you, mostly politely, that we've been "waiting until the patch" for over a year.

Yeah, and as I said, don't make assumptions until the patch is out. Wait for the patch to form opinions. That seems pretty reasonable.

The game is not fine as-is. This is a medieval combat game where spears don't work, sieges don't work and shieldwalls don't work. The same is true for skills, traits, clans, economy, kingdom diplomacy etc etc etc. Literally zero features in this game are release-ready and some are even worse than they were at EA launch.

You didn't read that sentence. I said that I never said the game was fine as-is. In fact, you even quote that part. Read the actual sentence before commenting on it.

Nope. What @MadVader said. At this point, a dev claiming that a thing is true leads me to believe the opposite - since devs and community reps have been consistently wrong for years. I'm not saying they were lying - but they have repeatedly said things would happen and those predictions repeatedly failed to come true.

This is what I keep telling you: your pro-TW position is based entirely on conjecture and hopey-feels, while our concerned/negative/blackpilled position is based on fact and experience.

Devs and community reps have been wrong, but they haven't lied. There is a massive difference between being wrong and lying, and to say that a Dev would lie to the playerbase is a serious accusation. Personally, I am still inclined to believe them when it comes to telling the truth.

And my "pro-TW" posistion isn't based off of hope, it is based off of patience. I am perfectly fine with waiting for the game to be fine when it is, that has always been my stand point on the game. I already own it, and I'd prefer for it to be ready earlier rather then later, however I can still wait. I own other games.

EDIT: At the risk of feeding my ego, I'll also note that I personally raised a minor crapstorm by dominating the conversation on Steam and Reddit for a few days with an IRL-journalist-flex summary of the situation - a flex that actually got a dev to respond to the concerns of average gamers (I think rather weakly). My Steam post alone was at the top of the board for weeks and appears to be one of the most-trafficked posts in the history of that discussion board. I've no doubt that I'm probably to blame for a few of the fresh-profile white knights who popped up to spew pro-TW hate.

In the end, TW did exactly what the community demanded in record time. Coincidence? I think not.

You posted an inflamatory take on an inflamtory issue. Even Jance told you to calm down, and you two both agreed on the same issue. However, to insinuate that your posts had an effect on the outcome of the patch is not true whatsoever. As stated before, the only major thing that had an effect on the patch was the letter made by the modders, not your two inflammatory posts.

And I would like to distance myself from people who just come on here to hate, that has never been my intention. However, neither side of the "Pro-TW Anti-TW" debate is innocent. Personally, I don't really consider myself to be Pro-TW, as I have stated multiple times that I have issues with the game and its poor communication.

 

[ShakenSpeare]

What this does is show that TW responded to Jance and stated what would be in the upcoming patch. Given that the patch contained other things that are not just pertaining to modding, it is highly unlikely that the outrage following Dejan's post is what caused the patch to drop a week later. If outrage was a motivator for things to be fixed, then sieges would have been fixed months ago.

And I will still stand by what I did. I told people to not freak out about what may or may not be in the patch until the patch was actually in our hands. By going doomer and saying that TW was going "F you" to modders, that's what I spoke against. What does that do besides rile up people for something that hasn't even happened yet, and what was clearly proven to be false. The primary motivator behind the patch was the letter and if anything else had a definite effect it was Jance's follow up post that got them to elaborate further on it, but not do it.

This doesn't just happen with DayZ Standalone, multiple other games see increase in playercounts following a general release, examples being Space Engineers, Subnautica, and Prison Architect. This isn't just a phenomena that has been seen with DayZ, it has been seen with many other games. So, it is very easy to assume that players will come back to the game following the actual release. That is my evidence of that.

Yeah, no. If most players have already been blackpilled then the game would not have the amount of players that it has. In fact, if it were the case, WB would have more players currently then BL does. However, that is not the case. Most people player BL tend to enjoy the game, if they didn't then they wouldn't play it. WB is not only more polished and finished then BL, it is also significantly cheaper.

And yeah, if BL releases as is people would be disappointed. Would people lose their minds? No, they wouldn't, because the game isn't that bad. Is it buggy, yeah, does it have missing promised features, yeah, it is still an Early Access game. And, if an EA game is released before it is finished, then people will be annoyed by that.

As someone who plays Paradox, they were always scummy. Just look at CK2, in order to actually play the game fully you would have to spend upwards of $300, same goes for EU4, somewhat the same for Stellaris and HOI. People are now just angry because Leviathan literally broke the game and two months in it still hasn't been fixed. This isn't a BL missing features level of bad, this is a literally I can no longer play the game that I have purchased level of bad. This isn't to downplay the state of BL, this is to show how bad Paradox has been.

What do you mean no evidence? The past patch is evidence of them working to iron out the game. Performance following the last patch increased. That is what ironing out the game is, trying to make sure it can run well. I didn't say remarkable changes, that isn't what polishing it out is.

However, in terms of remarkable changes, you're not going to get on in one patch. Each patch will probably build and build on what the last one did, small changes. Not one patch will totally alter the game.

That was my point, I don't know when the game will release. They have missed their release dates, so who knows when the game will come out. Like I said, it could be half a year to a year and a half.

Yeah, and as I said, don't make assumptions until the patch is out. Wait for the patch to form opinions. That seems pretty reasonable.

You didn't read that sentence. I said that I never said the game was fine as-is. In fact, you even quote that part. Read the actual sentence before commenting on it.

Devs and community reps have been wrong, but they haven't lied. There is a massive difference between being wrong and lying, and to say that a Dev would lie to the playerbase is a serious accusation. Personally, I am still inclined to believe them when it comes to telling the truth.

And my "pro-TW" posistion isn't based off of hope, it is based off of patience. I am perfectly fine with waiting for the game to be fine when it is, that has always been my stand point on the game. I already own it, and I'd prefer for it to be ready earlier rather then later, however I can still wait. I own other games.

You posted an inflamatory take on an inflamtory issue. Even Jance told you to calm down, and you two both agreed on the same issue. However, to insinuate that your posts had an effect on the outcome of the patch is not true whatsoever. As stated before, the only major thing that had an effect on the patch was the letter made by the modders, not your two inflammatory posts.

And I would like to distance myself from people who just come on here to hate, that has never been my intention. However, neither side of the "Pro-TW Anti-TW" debate is innocent. Personally, I don't really consider myself to be Pro-TW, as I have stated multiple times that I have issues with the game and its poor communication.

I'll be curious as to what your opinions are when TW doesn't add anything substantial to the game, even post EA, as I strongly suspect shall happen.

 

[Phantom425]

I'll be curious as to what your opinions are when TW doesn't add anything substantial to the game, even post EA, as I strongly suspect shall happen.

We'll see what they are when that happens. Until then, it literally hasn't happened, so I don't know what the state of BL will definitely be in the future. I'll be curious to see what your opinions are if the game releases in a good state, which I strongly suspect shall happen.

 

[Mad Vader]

We'll see what they are when that happens. Until then, it literally hasn't happened, so I don't know what the state of BL will definitely be in the future. I'll be curious to see what your opinions are if the game releases in a good state, which I strongly suspect shall happen.

The difference between those two opinions is that one is based on substantial evidence and the other on faith. Don't gamble, it will ruin your life.

 

[Phantom425]

The difference between those two opinions is that one is based on substantial evidence and the other on faith. Don't gamble, it will ruin your life.

Faith and reason. I have faith that TW will add the features that they promised, and I can reason that they will want to continue to develop the game after launch in order to make more money. It is also a reasonable statement to say that issues such as sieges will be fixed by launch, whenever that comes.

And I never planned on gambling.

 

[Orion]

You have to remember that Steam was still was quite new as a DRM service back in 2008-2010 and not many games were supported then aside from Valves own games

That would be true if you had said 2005-2007, but by the time Warband came out Steam was already the frontrunner in digital video game sales platforms. Still, you're right that Warband was available through several sources and many of the forum users at the time picked it up directly from TW. There was also an issue that came up several times with keys bought elsewhere not being the proper format for activation on Steam, and this surely contributed to some extent (though probably minor).

I am perfectly fine with waiting for the game to be fine when it is, that has always been my stand point on the game. I already own it, and I'd prefer for it to be ready earlier rather then later, however I can still wait. I own other games.

This is my position as well, though I do not have confidence it will be more enjoyable to me than Warband on the MP side. As disappointed as I am by that, I did always enjoy the SP as well in previous games so I've resigned myself to just playing SP in BL. Bit of a shift from my focus for Warband, and I'd bet there are many people less dedicated to MP than I was who made the same shift already.

Community building is a 2-way street, with the community members providing social interactions, information, and additional content while the studio is responsible for providing the common ground that brings us here in the first place. If our one sure-fire shared interest has a false start and then stalls out while stuck in the mud, then we lose interest in what ties us to this place. The people who have been around this particular block a few times have made friends here, and while the thing that brought us together was this franchise it is no longer what keeps us together. We have reaped the benefit of the community, and unless TW keeps up their end then there's little else to be gained from investing time here. This is how communities for games fall apart.

 

[Phantom425]

Community building is a 2-way street, with the community members providing social interactions, information, and additional content while the studio is responsible for providing the common ground that brings us here in the first place. If our one sure-fire shared interest has a false start and then stalls out while stuck in the mud, then we lose interest in what ties us to this place. The people who have been around this particular block a few times have made friends here, and while the thing that brought us together was this franchise it is no longer what keeps us together. We have reaped the benefit of the community, and unless TW keeps up their end then there's little else to be gained from investing time here. This is how communities for games fall apart.

And hopefully they do. I don't think TW is dumb, and I've never thought that they would continue to work on the game for the communities benefit, solely for the monetary benefit. And, so far, the game has had a false start, which does mean the community building part is damaged, however I don't think that damage is fatal whatsoever. If TW really wants a thriving multiplayer scene, I do think they could make one. However, the big issue with that is TW has to work for it. They'd have to push hard if the want the same scene as WB, and it could easily take years of work. However, it is not impossible.

Overall, I don't think this community is dead, nor is it fatally wounded. It is currently in a rough patch, yes, from what I believe to be issues on both sides of the road, although primarily issues on the side of TW, the community can come back from it.

 

[Mad Vader]

And hopefully they do. I don't think TW is dumb, and I've never thought that they would continue to work on the game for the communities benefit, solely for the monetary benefit. And, so far, the game has had a false start, which does mean the community building part is damaged, however I don't think that damage is fatal whatsoever. If TW really wants a thriving multiplayer scene, I do think they could make one. However, the big issue with that is TW has to work for it. They'd have to push hard if the want the same scene as WB, and it could easily take years of work. However, it is not impossible.

There is no evidence whatsoever that there will be a radical change in the near future (the release is in Q4) in TW's approach to Bannerlord and the community. TW's positions are more entrenched if anything and their flexibility in making design changes that players want is shot anyway if they want to release soon. They won't retreat on poor decisions, that's for sure.
Bannerlord was in EA for 15 months now and the siege problems were slightly alleviated, but not solved twice so far and only recently. The MP part was virtually abandoned and we'll know more after the next MP-relevant patch drops what are the extensive changes they say they've made in the last few months. The MP community has mostly left the building by now and for good reasons.
If someone hasn't done something in 15 months and haven't indicated any kind of progress or even committed to resolving the issues, why would he do it in 4-6 months? It's that bad and if you expect much more, you are in for a disappointment.

 

[Roy1012]

There is no evidence whatsoever that there will be a radical change in the near future (the release is in Q4) in TW's approach to Bannerlord and the community. TW's positions are more entrenched if anything and their flexibility in making design changes that players want is shot anyway if they want to release soon. They won't retreat on poor decisions, that's for sure.
Bannerlord was in EA for 15 months now and the siege problems were slightly alleviated, but not solved twice so far and only recently. The MP part was virtually abandoned and we'll know more after the next MP-relevant patch drops what are the extensive changes they say they've made in the last few months. The MP community has mostly left the building by now and for good reasons.
If someone hasn't done something in 15 months and haven't indicated any kind of progress or even committed to resolving the issues, why would he do it in 4-6 months? It's that bad and if you expect much more, you are in for a disappointment.

Just give people ability to mod the private servers and multiplayer mods can come out.

 

[Phantom425]

There is no evidence whatsoever that there will be a radical change in the near future (the release is in Q4) in TW's approach to Bannerlord and the community. TW's positions are more entrenched if anything and their flexibility in making design changes that players want is shot anyway if they want to release soon. They won't retreat on poor decisions, that's for sure.
Bannerlord was in EA for 15 months now and the siege problems were slightly alleviated, but not solved twice so far and only recently. The MP part was virtually abandoned and we'll know more after the next MP-relevant patch drops what are the extensive changes they say they've made in the last few months. The MP community has mostly left the building by now and for good reasons.
If someone hasn't done something in 15 months and haven't indicated any kind of progress or even committed to resolving the issues, why would he do it in 4-6 months? It's that bad and if you expect much more, you are in for a disappointment.

That's why I said that they could make one. It is their decision whether or not they will. I said that if they wanted a thriving MP scene, they could very well make one. I didn't say that they would.
As for the EA, there has been progress, although in very small amounts and spread out through development. I find it hard to believe to say that there has been no progress whatsoever, when the past patch proves that wrong. While the long-standing issue of the sieges is still ongoing, issues such as performance and modding support have been improved upon. Also, features have been added to the game, in varying states, such as rebellions and prison breaks. To say that there has been no progress whatsoever is a lie.

 

[TFK_Ted]

I like how the "biggest" released Bannerlordmod atm is a Game of Thrones "overhaul" mod which is 99% bought assets thrown together with no plan or modding ability by one single guy, yet people on Youtube, Twitter and Steam still believe that mod is going to be "great". They even support it on Patreon! Oh boy, the ignorance within this "new"community TW decided to make their game for...
At this point, I can't even write down my opinion anymore because the words I would have to use would probably get me muted or banned. Just one thing that needs to be said: screw ****ers like that trying to make money based on expectations from Warband modders' previous unpaid work, **** them all, bloody bastards need to be cleansed. The audacity of calling that an "overhaul" and even making a Patreon for it....

 

[Emil]

I like how the "biggest" released Bannerlordmod atm is a Game of Thrones "overhaul" mod which is 99% bought assets thrown together with no plan or modding ability by one single guy, yet people on Youtube, Twitter and Steam still believe that mod is going to be "great". They even support it on Patreon! Oh boy, the ignorance within this "new"community TW decided to make their game for...
At this point, I can't even write down my opinion anymore because the words I would have to use would probably get me muted or banned. Just one thing that needs to be said: screw ****ers like that trying to make money based on expectations from Warband modders' previous unpaid work, **** them all, bloody bastards need to be cleansed. The audacity of calling that an "overhaul" and even making a Patreon for it....

Yeah, people need to be very critical of mods and not throw money on what they'd like to see, but rather what they can see. The mod has been deleted from moddb which is a questionable move in itself and the developer appear to contain it to his own website without much possibility for public critique, and I don't see a thread about the mod here.

That would be true if you had said 2005-2007, but by the time Warband came out Steam was already the frontrunner in digital video game sales platforms. Still, you're right that Warband was available through several sources and many of the forum users at the time picked it up directly from TW. There was also an issue that came up several times with keys bought elsewhere not being the proper format for activation on Steam, and this surely contributed to some extent (though probably minor).

You would think a Swede would get Steam asap for Counter-Strike, but that wasn't the case for me. I only got Steam at the start of 2009 due to Empire: Total War being one of the first games requiring activation through the DRM-service for me, even though it required two CD-roms for the installation itself (as it had a massive size for its time with ~40 GB).

Spoiler

Aside from history and onto a rather controversial topic, our community still has monthly visits from players who either cannot afford the game, has no ability to pay for stuff online and are looking for someone with extra Steam keys, as they want to explore the Warband MP for the first time, or be able to earn Steam achievements. They might be from the pirate community, or not, it's not like we ask. But yeah, there are players unaccounted for in Warband.

 

[bonerstorm]

If most players have already been blackpilled then the game would not have the amount of players that it has.

You didn't read what I said. I said that the only reason people aren't blackpilled is because the majority of players don't know how bleak the situation is. This is ignorance, not enjoyment.

If you actually read what people are saying, they're talking out of hope, not experience, and they're specifically talking about features they hope to be in the game which forum-goers know from the horse's mouth ain't happening.

And yeah, if BL releases as is people would be disappointed. Would people lose their minds? No, they wouldn't, because the game isn't that bad. Is it buggy, yeah, does it have missing promised features, yeah, it is still an Early Access game. And, if an EA game is released before it is finished, then people will be annoyed by that.

Yes. If BL releases and sieges still don't work and armor is still paper mache and the only way to level roguery is to kill 2 million peasants etc etc etc people will lose their everloving crap.

Hell, I just told people that feasts aren't in the game and there are minimal dynamic relations with clan leaders and that ALONE pissed people off. Much of the late-game gameplay of WB & VC was managing lord relation and that added a lot of depth to the gameplay - even if it was a kinda janky mechanic.

Devs and community reps have been wrong, but they haven't lied. There is a massive difference between being wrong and lying, and to say that a Dev would lie to the playerbase is a serious accusation.

FFS I specifically said that I wasn't accusing them of lying.

Bro. Please just read what I write before responding to it like that. This is what I'm talking about when I said you were being an insulting prat.

That was my point, I don't know when the game will release. They have missed their release dates, so who knows when the game will come out. Like I said, it could be half a year to a year and a half.

In other words, you are agreeing with us that you don't know what you're talking about - while we do.

Yeah, and as I said, don't make assumptions until the patch is out. Wait for the patch to form opinions. That seems pretty reasonable.

No. By definition it is not reasonable because you don't have a reason to believe that TaleWorlds will change their behavior. You have hope.

You are describing faith, not reason. If you want to get technical about it, the term would be "agreeableness". It is motivated by emotion and personality, not logic or fact.

You didn't read that sentence. I said that I never said the game was fine as-is. In fact, you even quote that part. Read the actual sentence before commenting on it.

I read that sentence. You said, to quote "The game, at this point, is being ironed out and polished. Once the game is polished, and the desired features have been added, that is when a game leaves EA."

You have no evidence that the game is being ironed out and polished. Instead of major changes to the way armor or siege AI works, for instance, we have gotten sheep textures and a barber and +1/-1 tweaks to item stats. Some bugs have been removed and a roughly equal amount have been added.

That is not being ironed out and polished. That is being tweaked. It's what you do to a finished product. You do not have evidence that the game will substantially improve because the game has not substantially improved in over a year.

Faith and reason. I have faith that TW will add the features that they promised, and I can reason that they will want to continue to develop the game after launch in order to make more money. It is also a reasonable statement to say that issues such as sieges will be fixed by launch, whenever that comes.

It is not a reasonable belief that a game will be substantially improved post-release when it's not being improved in Early Access.

Early Access is the easiest time to make substantial changes to a product while still collecting revenue and dealing with end-users. The amount of money they stand to make by improving the product post-launch and post-hype is miniscule compared to the money they've already made... or WOULD make if they released a functional product at launch. If BL were an MMO, that'd be different - but it's not... they have roughly one shot per gamer to cash in and that's about it until DLC becomes a thing (and it's tough to finance bugfixing with DLC's). Toiling away for years after release to un-crap a crap product is not how software development works and the fact that you're citing Paradox should mean that you already know that.

And all of that money pales in comparison to the money they'd make crapping out a minimum viable product on a console while the hype train is going strong enough to drown out the logical, reasonable people who know better.

 

[Phantom425]

You didn't read what I said. I said that the only reason people aren't blackpilled is because the majority of players don't know how bleak the situation is. This is ignorance, not enjoyment.

If you actually read what people are saying, they're talking out of hope, not experience, and they're specifically talking about features they hope to be in the game which forum-goers know from the horse's mouth ain't happening.

If they didn't enjoy the game they wouldn't be playing it. Blissful ignorance or not, a large group of people are playing the game and if they did not enjoy then they wouldn't be playing it. And, if I'm being quite frank, the situation isn't as bleak as some make it out to be. I'm not saying the situation is amazing, it is doomer levels of awful.

And yeah, a lot of people want features in a game, I know I want features in other games. People tend to speak about features that they would wish would be in a game. If these features aren't in the game, however, I doubt this will cause that many people to take a blackpill.

Yes. If BL releases and sieges still don't work and armor is still paper mache and the only way to level roguery is to kill 2 million peasants etc etc etc people will lose their everloving crap.

Hell, I just told people that feasts aren't in the game and there are minimal dynamic relations with clan leaders and that ALONE pissed people off. Much of the late-game gameplay of WB & VC was managing lord relation and that added a lot of depth to the gameplay - even if it was a kinda janky mechanic.

Yeah, if they released a buggy EA game people would be mad. That's why it hasn't been released yet, and we don't have a concrete date for it. By release, I am pretty confident that these issues will be sorted, as you don't lauch with glaring issues such as broken sieges.

And I would like to see these conversations, as I doubt people who play Bannerlord would have an incredibly emotional reaction to feasts not being in the game. And, knowing that you have a track record of being inflammatory, it would be nice to see these conversations that you are speaking about.

FFS I specifically said that I wasn't accusing them of lying.

Bro. Please just read what I write before responding to it like that. This is what I'm talking about when I said you were being an insulting prat.

Yeah you were. The statement made by Duh was clear, "No, the anger had no effect on it". A dev isn't just wrong in that statement, they know the answer to that because they work there. They would know what caused the change. So, in this instance, it is either Duh being truthful or Duh is lying, not just Duh being wrong. I did read your statement, and that is why I chose to speak about him lying.

Also I never directly insulted you in that statement, while you called me a prat. I think it is clear to see who is coming off as more insulting.

In other words, you are agreeing with us that you don't know what you're talking about - while we do.

No, I'm saying that I don't know when the release date is, given that they've had to push it back before. If you know the exact release date, even with delays, I'd be glad to hear it.

No. By definition it is not reasonable because you don't have a reason to believe that TaleWorlds will change their behavior. You have hope.

You are describing faith, not reason. If you want to get technical about it, the term would be "agreeableness". It is motivated by emotion and personality, not logic or fact.

No, it isn't faith. It is waiting for something to come out before jumping to conclusions about it. If it sucked, then yeah, be angry, that would have been an actual insult. However, there was progress made, and people got angry over a supposed "F-you to modders". It is reasonable to wait for something to actually exist before judging it.

And if we are basing actions off of emotions and/or logic, your's is the one based in emotion. It is based off of being angry over the past year of bad communication and not waiting for something to be released. It is being angry enough to jump to conclusions. Mine follows the logic of "it isn't here yet, so I can't form an opinion on it yet".

I read that sentence. You said, to quote "The game, at this point, is being ironed out and polished. Once the game is polished, and the desired features have been added, that is when a game leaves EA."

No you didn't, you responded to that in a different paragraph. This was in response to me stating that the game was "fine as is" even though I specified that I didn't believe that.

You have no evidence that the game is being ironed out and polished. Instead of major changes to the way armor or siege AI works, for instance, we have gotten sheep textures and a barber and +1/-1 tweaks to item stats. Some bugs have been removed and a roughly equal amount have been added.

That is not being ironed out and polished. That is being tweaked. It's what you do to a finished product. You do not have evidence that the game will substantially improve because the game has not substantially improved in over a year.

Yeah I do, the recent patch for one. 1.6.0 worked on things besides modding, it greatly improved performance on computers. That is polishing, that is ironing out the game. There have been little quality of life updates that are polishing, such as village icons. While, that isn't actually finishing the game and adding the promised features, it is polishing the game.

And, it is an ongoing process. Things such as the siege problem are still being worked on, and they probably will be for multiple more patches. While they work on the big features that were promised, such as the terrain system, they are polishing the game to make it run better and have slight quality of life fixed.

And in terms of substantially improved, it hasn't. It is a work in progress, however features are being added. Just look at prison breaks, while janky, they are in the game. Massive features are being worked on, they just aren't yet ready for release.

It is not a reasonable belief that a game will be substantially improved post-release when it's not being improved in Early Access.

Yeah it is, because from what I've seen, it is still being worked on. The dev team have a long way to go, and the game will take years before it is a proper sequel in my opinion, but the game will be ready at some point. Hopefully it doesn't turn out like Star Citizen, but I do think that TW is going to make a really good game. The core features are there, and that can't be denied, they just need to be expanded upon, which I do think will happen. Things such as diplomacy may remain stale, and that is a problem, but the game can be good, and TW not giving up on the project yet, and not shutting down this forum, lead me to believe that they have yet to give up on it yet. The EA isn't over yet, and it probably won't be over for a while, so they have time.

 

[TFK_Ted]

If they didn't enjoy the game they wouldn't be playing it. Blissful ignorance or not, a large group of people are playing the game and if they did not enjoy then they wouldn't be playing it. And, if I'm being quite frank, the situation isn't as bleak as some make it out to be. I'm not saying the situation is amazing, it is doomer levels of awful.

Ah yes, the THOUSANDS, no TENS of THOUSANDS people playing MP every day. It's such a great LONGTERM success!!!!

You are delusional. And, quite frankly, I don't even blame you, after having looked at your join-date that is. We have waited over ten years, heck it's practically a generation at this point. So please, feel free to wait a little bit longer without critique.

 

[Maelstrom8]

Don't really understand how people can say the game is progressing "pretty good" with a good conscience. This is arguably the most slowest and inefficient progress I've seen in a game. There's nothing you could say that could excuse why it takes this long to address issues such as siege AI and broken formations, features that are the bread and butter of a medieval combat sim (Haha get it, butter? Nevermind I never found that stuff humorous).

Modders can do it. Realistic Battle AI Module helped with that as far as I know. There's no reason why they shouldn't be making an attempt to at least approach these guys and see how they're doing what they're doing and seeing how they can improve their game with that. It's going to take years at this point, but it SHOULDN'T.