Bannerlord was a grift

[Phantom425]

YEP. Also... shieldwalls! Shieldwalls were a perfectly functional thing in modded WB and vanilla VC. They worked!

Modded WB and VC. Those are both not vanilla WB. While yes, that was in the past, they are working with a new engine at this point. A lot of stuff will probably come later, and will be elaborated on later. Once the game releases, which may not happen for a few months, that does not mean that TW will stop working on the game whatsoever. If anything, they have a vested interest in continuing to support BL and to expand what the game can offer, as that will be the only way that they can continue to rake in money.

Yesterday my friend who has been waiting to buy Bannerlord asked me how I felt about the game rn. When I told him ladders still did not work he laughed. He didn't believe me. I laughed to at how bad the game is right now. He won't be buying it anytime soon.

If the only metric to how a game works is ladders, then I don't understand how Half-Life got all of the appeal that it did. While yes, sieges do need a lot of work, there are many other elements of the games that can can be considered satisfactory at the least. The game, at this point, isn't bad, it is just lackluster in a lot of its own elements. This isn't a bad game, it is a plain game, and there is a massive difference between the two.

 

[bonerstorm]

Those are both not vanilla WB.

Working shieldwalls were in vanilla VC. If there were working shieldwalls in an official product, why aren't they in BL?

Yeah, they built a new engine. So what? Why didn't they build it from the ground up to be half as good as VC or even vanilla WB combat? Why did they build the game with collision issues that bork infantry in every formation but loose?

If a medieval combat sim can't do shieldwalls or sieges, then it can't simulate medieval combat. Because medieval combat was 90% shieldwalls and sieges. It's that simple.

If the only metric to how a game works is ladders, then I don't understand how Half-Life got all of the appeal that it did. While yes, sieges do need a lot of work, there are many other elements of the games that can can be considered satisfactory at the least. The game, at this point, isn't bad, it is just lackluster in a lot of its own elements. This isn't a bad game, it is a plain game, and there is a massive difference between the two.

Bruh sieges literally don't work. This affects ladders and siege towers AND archers refusing to shoot for whatever reason. Also apparently there are many reports of recent issues with catapults that I haven't even seen yet. It's not just "ladders".

And this has been an issue from day one, well over a year ago. Every day where TW fails to announce "literally our entire team is going to work hard to make sieges actually work for the first time ever and it'll be fixed in the next patch" is a slap in the face.

How many patches have come and gone? And what do we have to show for it? Barbers and sheep textures.

 

[Jarungo]

Hard to disagree with anything you wrote. Btw Steam only takes a 20% cut once a game hit certain thresholds (which Bannerlord has with millions of sales)

Edit: And yeah I used to believe TW said they scrapped the co-op campaign because "couldn't find a way to make it fun", but now I think it's just due to them being lazy and removing anything slightly complicated.

They take 30% for sales under 10 - 35 millions and 25% for sales above it. The OP original figures are far from being factual, we can't know for sure how much profit they've earned since they are privately owned.

 

[JimmyCakes]

I don't know what I'm doing anymore guys, there's just nothing happening with this game. Momentum is lost

 

[Roy1012]

They take 30% for sales under 10 - 35 millions and 25% for sales above it. The OP original figures are far from being factual, we can't know for sure how much profit they've earned since they are privately owned.

Sure the figures are rough estimates, but what do you dispute? The “TW is a private company” defence is kind of a weak meme when I explain exactly their expenses and revenues. What precisely do you disagree with?

 

[Jarungo]

Sure the figures are rough estimates, but what do you dispute? The “TW is a private company” defence is kind of a weak meme when I explain exactly their expenses and revenues. What precisely do you disagree with?

I'm disputing the fact that your estimates are conjecture and anecdotal evidence at best. That's a weak approach to figure out how much they've made in revenues without knowing the total sales/refunds. We also have no idea how much of that revenue was directly used on the development of the game because their annual and interim reports are not public. Suffice to say if you are going to make bold assumptions about their revenues, you also have to consider their operating income for the fiscal year, which we don't know.​

 

[bonerstorm]

I don't know what I'm doing anymore guys, there's just nothing happening with this game. Momentum is lost

Same as most of the players:
Drop the game for 4-6 months before you feel like trying it again. Wait for new patches and check the forums and make sure that the essential mods like Bannerlord Tweaks and Diplomacy Fixes and RBM are up-to-date.

 

[eddiemccandless]

Modded WB and VC. Those are both not vanilla WB. While yes, that was in the past, they are working with a new engine at this point. A lot of stuff will probably come later, and will be elaborated on later. Once the game releases, which may not happen for a few months, that does not mean that TW will stop working on the game whatsoever. If anything, they have a vested interest in continuing to support BL and to expand what the game can offer, as that will be the only way that they can continue to rake in money.

Shield wall worked just fine in vanilla WB, it just wasn't called shield wall. It was called F2-F4 ("stand closer"). It definitely worked a hell of a lot better than any formation that is available in Bannerlord right now, and it did because the fundamental basis of the game (combat, collision detection and interaction between troops) was sound. It wasn't incredibly sophisticated perhaps, but it was sound and did the job really well.

In Bannerlord instead they tried to go for a "physics" based approach, which is more difficult to do right, and it shows. The problem that I have is that they aren't willing to admit that it's not working the way it should. It's not about the ladders, it's about the very basic gameplay upon which everything else is built not working right, and whoever is in charge seemingly being unable to see that.

 

[Rungsted93]

They take 30% for sales under 10 - 35 millions and 25% for sales above it. The OP original figures are far from being factual, we can't know for sure how much profit they've earned since they are privately owned.

Well this is how it works: For game sales between $10 million and $50 million, developers will earn revenue split at 25 percent. For every sale after $50 million, Steam will only take 20 percent from the game’s overall earnings.

Anyway TW has more than enough money, keep in mind the conversion rate and cost of living in Turkish works in their favour as well. Additionally I can say Steamspy and the similar sites are usually scarily accurate (have tested it with my own game).

 

[Phantom425]

Working shieldwalls were in vanilla VC. If there were working shieldwalls in an official product, why aren't they in BL?

Yeah, they built a new engine. So what? Why didn't they build it from the ground up to be half as good as VC or even vanilla WB combat? Why did they build the game with collision issues that bork infantry in every formation but loose?

A new engine means a lot, especially when you build one from the ground up. And, from my experience shield walls do tend to work, although your troops can get caught up, meaning that it isn't the end-all-be-all.

Bruh sieges literally don't work. This affects ladders and siege towers AND archers refusing to shoot for whatever reason. Also apparently there are many reports of recent issues with catapults that I haven't even seen yet. It's not just "ladders".

The ladder comment was a bit of a joke, mostly directed towards Half-Life. There are issues with sieges, and those fixes are probably going continue well into development, maybe even past the actual release. There is not much else that can be done until TW themselves fix the issue, and given that the last patch did do a lot of work in terms of performance issues I'm certain that this will be a priority for them.

How many patches have come and gone? And what do we have to show for it? Barbers and sheep textures.

Barbers, sheep textures, and progress. Just look at the 1.6.0 patch, it did a lot of good for modders.

If a medieval combat sim can't do shieldwalls or sieges, then it can't simulate medieval combat. Because medieval combat was 90% shieldwalls and sieges. It's that simple.

As a final point, this is simply false in a historical context. Yes, shield walls were important, but this was not 90% of historical combat whatsoever. Sieges in medieval times could last months, as the primary goal would be to starve out your opponent, so you would wait. Secondly, shield walls simply were not the way that these armies would always fight. Shieldwalls worked great for the Romans, as their entire structure was built around, including their weapons. But medieval society was different from antiquity.

 

[Roy1012]

I'm disputing the fact that your estimates are conjecture and anecdotal evidence at best. That's a weak approach to figure out how much they've made in revenues without knowing the total sales/refunds. We also have no idea how much of that revenue was directly used on the development of the game because their annual and interim reports are not public. Suffice to say if you are going to make bold assumptions about their revenues, you also have to consider their operating income for the fiscal year, which we don't know.​

My point is that from the sales of Bannerlord alone, with no other incomes covered their expenses for the past 12 years on top of well over $50 million, and that’s a conservative estimate. What other expenses could they have aside from marketing, overhead and payroll? Give them a million more in spending a year, and 5% refunded sales and you with the most conservative estimate still come out with 49 million. That’s including no sales from warband or other revenues.

 

[Nalgasucia507]

This is a really stupid conversation/thread.

 

[Roy1012]

This is a really stupid conversation/thread.

Why is that?

 

[Nalgasucia507]

It began alright, but it is devolving into assumptions, speculations and very irrelevant matters and topics. I am not of the opinion of endless threads. You provided the conclusion of your opinion. Many people agreed (I partly agree too, I thought I posted here but I don't see it), and so now people are pulling numbers left or right and talking about pointless stuff.

Let it end. TW got your money. It got everybody's money. We already lost. They are working on the game, and will let us know when they plan to end development, which does not seem to be in the near. Devs talked about Armagan not being an evil dude (but somewhat incompetent, yes). That's it.

 

[rawrager]

Taleworlds is shietting on our faces, doing a console port instead of putting all resources to finish and polish their game. Now instead of PC getting the fully polished game first, they are probably aiming for simultaneous release on all platforms. This is no way to treat your paying customers, they should deliver the fully polished game first before starting another project.

 

[Roy1012]

Taleworlds is shietting on our faces, doing a console port instead of putting all resources to finish and polish their game. Now instead of PC getting the fully polished game first, they are probably aiming for simultaneous release on all platforms. This is no way to treat your paying customers, they should deliver the fully polished game first before starting another project.

Totally agree. Not sure what can be done about this, seems like development will be spread too thin and slow even more than right now.

 

[Phantom425]

Taleworlds is shietting on our faces, doing a console port instead of putting all resources to finish and polish their game. Now instead of PC getting the fully polished game first, they are probably aiming for simultaneous release on all platforms. This is no way to treat your paying customers, they should deliver the fully polished game first before starting another project.

I wouldn't call making a console port ****ting in everyone's faces. Polishing BL is an ongoing process, as we can see, is an ongoing process. Also, there isn't anything to prove that they are shooting for a simultaneous release on all platforms, so until this is directly stated there TW cannot be critiqued for this.

 

[Benjamin Bones]

I wouldn't call making a console port ****ting in everyone's faces. Polishing BL is an ongoing process, as we can see, is an ongoing process. Also, there isn't anything to prove that they are shooting for a simultaneous release on all platforms, so until this is directly stated there TW cannot be critiqued for this.

Oh no??? Look at this post from community manager Callum...

Oh the newcomers... TW has said so much - some of what they have said has come to pass while many, many others have not... But TW has said that they will be releasing on both platforms simultaneously.

 

[Roy1012]

Oh no??? Look at this post from community manager Callum...

Oh the newcomers... TW has said so much - some of what they have said has come to pass while many, many others have not... But TW has said that they will be releasing on both platforms simultaneously.

Well see I suppose. They’ve reneged on so many promises so whose to say they won’t for this one.

 

[Phantom425]

Oh no??? Look at this post from community manager Callum...

Oh the newcomers... TW has said so much - some of what they have said has come to pass while many, many others have not... But TW has said that they will be releasing on both platforms simultaneously.

I did not know about this, thank you for bringing this to my attention. However, my original point still somewhat stands, I don't understand how this is ****ting on the face of those fans of BL. BL, at some point, will be a finished game, and most likely it will not just stop development at that point. Given the recent elephant leak, we can safely assume that they will be working on more content for us, DLC or not.